Roll-By Advice for Railfans

[Anonymous]

Other than having volunteered as a brakeman on a tourist RR 5 years ago, I
have never worked for a railroad but I am a big railfan and I'd like to help the
railroads whenever possible.

Are there any suggestions from "real" railroad employees out there on what a
conscientious railfan could look for when watching a train pass by as regards
severe defects that should be reported? Obviously, if I see a brake hose that
has seperated or the F.R.E.D. is clearly damaged, that's something that should
be reported immediately to the telephone number displayed on the signal box
(if a number is shown at all - depends on the RR in question). And of course,
it'd have to be something that is unquestionably a defect so the railroad is not
bothered with erroneous reports.

When I watch a train pass I try to look for anything wrong but other than looking
at the brake hoses and the F.R.E.D. I'm not sure what else to observe. Ideas?

[CShaveRR]

I wouldn't worry about separated brake hoses...the train would already have been stopped by that. Of course, if you see where the separation has happened, you could be helpful by pointing that out to the crew which would probably be looking for it.

The thing you should be looking (and sniffing!) for is smoke, which would likely be generated by a sticking brake (or an un-released handbrake). Hotboxes (overheated journals) aren't as common now that everything rides on roller bearings, and although bearing failures do occur, it would take a really trained ear or eye to catch one before it happens.

Something dragging is another good thing to look for...it might be a component of the car, such as a pin-lifter, or it might be a chain or other lading tie-down. This could be especially dangerous if it's in the vicinity of the wheels. A load that's shifted to the point of being ready to unload would also be something to warn the railroad about. Don't worry about the little bands that are wrapped around bundles of lumber. (Note: things like this are the best possible reason for watching all trains from a safe distance!)

Noises: you'll hear plenty, which may sound unusual. Just let them direct you to an obvious problem, which you then report...don't report the noises themselves. Failing roller bearings supposedly emit a loud squeal...I've heard plenty of squeals but have not heard of a bearing failure resulting from them, so don't alarm them for that.

Keep in mind that along most main lines, a defect detector will catch a lot of this stuff anyway, and those can be about 20 miles or so apart. Still, the extra eyes can't hurt... if you see something serious, like smoke from the wheels (or from the car itself!), or dragging equipment or seriously shifted lading, call the emergency number. When calling, know where you are, and try to have the number of the car with the defect. If you have a scanner, listen for the results of your call...actions taken (or not taken) could be your guide for future observation.

[Mookie]

Which brings up another question - (thank goodness!)

Saw some switching being done - one track to another - making up a freight train. Had a brake hose hanging between two cars - driver saw it first and nudged me (giggle). So - if you have a cut of about 15-20 cars and one car right in the center has a brake hose not hooked up - how does this affect your stopping power? I realize this will all be checked before they leave town, but what about back and forth in the yards?

Mookie

[CShaveRR]

In the yard, this is no problem...the only brake being used to stop these cars is that on the locomotive. They couldn't kick (or hump) the cars with the air brakes connected. So in this situation it's not important whether the hoses are connected.

(If I remember correctly, CSX's runaway train in Ohio a couple of years ago was a yard move, with no air in all of those cars.)

Judging from some of the nicknames given the hoses, the giggle/nudge is understandable!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

In the yard, this is no problem...the only brake being used to stop these cars is that on the locomotive. They couldn't kick (or hump) the cars with the air brakes connected. So in this situation it's not important whether the hoses are connected.

(If I remember correctly, CSX's runaway train in Ohio a couple of years ago was a yard move, with no air in all of those cars.)

Judging from some of the nicknames given the hoses, the giggle/nudge is understandable!

[:I] I am blushing...

Hey Brother Carl, did you have to work on my holiday? I wondered if you were out there helping the economy while I was just sitting on my bucket seat....(watch what you say, guys!)

Mook

[Anonymous]

The Hoses Between Cars Can Break But On A Main Line The Engineer Of The
Train Would Know If It Came Undone. When In The Yd The Air Brake Release
Valve Is Pushed Or Pulled This Lever Is On Every Car On Hopper ,Tank Or
Container Cars Its On One End Cars Like Box,Autorack,Gondolas Or Flats Its
In The Middle Under Neath The Car But Before The Cars Are Kicked Or Humped
The Release valve Will Get Pushed And Then The Hand Brakes Are Released
But If A Train Going 45 M.P.H. Was To Lose Air Pressure (ex Hose Tears due to Stretching) The Train Will Go Into Emergency Braking And Will Stop And The Brakeman
Will Start Cussing Kicking Rocks And Look For The Promblem And If Its Cold Or Wet
Someones Gonna Get It But The Train Wont Go Without Air .

[Anonymous]

I would have to say the most important things to watch for is smoke coming from the brakes or a load that has shifted to the point of falling off the car.

[heavyd]

The only other thing I can add besides common sense is don't stand too close to the train as it is going by! Always stand at least 20 feet away. You would be surprized of the stuff that is on freight cars and can fall off at any time! Empty cars are just as dangerous if not more because of materials used to hold down the cargo. Flatcars and boxcars usually have loose lumber on the floors that can work their way off. They also have loose metal banding wire that can be seen flapping in the wind as they go by. Any of these hazzards could kill you if you were sanding too close! Safety first!

[edblysard]

And to add to someone elses comment, use you ears.
Sliding wheels, from handbrakes left on or air brakes that failed to release, make a sound, no kidding, just like frying bacon, except really loud.
On occasion, carmen can and do miss a handbrake when working a train for departure, and if left on, this brake can lock the wheel set, and slide the wheels flat.
This can lead to the wheel picking a frog, or wearing away enough of the flange to allow it to jump over the rail head. Not a good thing.
Easy to see at night, the sparks are a giveaway, but hard to see in bright daylight.
If you find one, note the reporting marks on the car, and call the railroad.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[RudyRockvilleMD]

What if you see hobos? To whom should you report them?

I had an experience many years ago north of Oceanside, CA. While I was driving down to Oceanside on I-5 on a Sunday afternoon in May, 1985 I noticed the northbound traffic was being detoured through the Border Patrol's checkpoint near San Clemente: I didn't give it much thought then. I went out to photograph a southbound Amtrak San Digan after eating dinner in a restaurant near the Surf Line tracks. A northbound San Digan passed first, and I noticed what I thought were "illegals" hanging on to the outside of the west side of its coaches. I went back into the restaurant, I explained the situation to the manager, and I asked him to call the Highway Patrol to contact the Santa Fe dispatcher to report the people riding on the outside of the train which he did.

Later it dawned on me that those people who were riding on the outside of the train might have been 'illegals' who were heading north to the Los Angeles area who wanted to avoid getting caught in the Border Patrol's traffic checkpoint.

I turned on my scanner when I returned to my car, but I never heard anything about the stowaways from either the dispatcher or the train crew, nor did I see the train stopped in San Clemente across from the Border patrol's San Clemente checkpoint.

[Mookie]

And that poses another question - I saw freight cars leaving town with their doors open. Any reason they would leave the doors open on empty box cars- I would think for security reasons they would shut them all?

Mookie

[CShaveRR]

Good question, Sis!

In the early 1970s, we on the CNW used to deliver trains to the UP for forwarding to North Platte. At that time, UP insisted that the doors be closed, to improve aerodynamics (if there were a box car or reefer that was missing a door, it could not be put on trains 247, 249, or 251). So the Car Department, I assume, had to ensure that all car doors were closed.

Obviously, for whatever reason, UP doesn't care about the doors any more. I'm with you--security and aerodynamics would be two good reasons I could think of to close them (a third reason would be to keep the interiors clean and dry). Of course, the doors aren't all that secure (I can open and close 'em with a retarder sometimes!), but I'd think that closed doors would be a deterrant. With plug doors, it's a question of safety, and those cars are stencilled with instructions to close and lock the doors before the cars are moved. Otherwise that's a lot of weight to be sliding freely, and sometimes falling off.

I'd say that the doors are left open because nobody wants to take the time to close them. The customer leaves them open because the railroad has to inspect the car (customers could get into trouble for not cleaning out the cars). Although the train crew makes the inspection and can refuse to take a car that hasn't been cleaned, it's not their job to close the door. Carmen? Their ranks have been cut to the bone, at least around here.

If I were a road conductor (I'm not), I don't think I'd want to have cars in my train with open plug doors. They slide too freely, and--in spite of the extra safety devices along the top--are not incapable of falling off. If they fall, there's no telling how they'd bounce, and who or what might be at risk. We've had carmen killed in the yard by falling doors (it may have been one of those incidents that caused the safety hook in the top center of the door to be required).

Oh, your other question...I got to stay at home for most of Thursday, but if Friday was your holiday, I was definitely out there...the rest of the weekend, too.

[Anonymous]

Before a train passes when I'm at a grade crossing, and since I now make it a point to ALWAYS have my camera in my car, I get ready to snap a photo of gate jumpers. I did that this past Wednesday in Northfield, MN. I like the looks on people's faces and those fingers are appreciated too.

[Mookie]

The fingers are an indication of either their age or IQ or was it hat size?

Mookie

[edblysard]

Hi Jen,
Like Carl said, the customer who is returning the car empty is responsible for cleaning the boxcar out.
But, down here at least, as a conductor, I can refuse to move any boxcar with it's door not properly closed.
Same with tank cars that still have their manway hatches open.
Its just too dangerous, they can and do fall off, and we dont have to pull them from the shippers plant if they dont close and secure them.

To answer the question about what to do if you see hobos or riders on a freight, call the railroad.
They will contact the train crew, and have them stop in a area where the gumshoes can nab the guys.
Most crossing signal boxes have a 1 800 number for the railroad on them.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[corwinda]

I wonder how many of those open boxcar doors were closed but not latched when leaving the customer's track and slid open during switching. (I have seen occasional loaded boxcars with partially open doors, too.)

[Anonymous]

This is tremendous dialog. I was wondering this very thing a few weeks back when I was out rail fanning and saw a CSX roll by with actual flames coming off one of the bearing boxes. Next time I'll be prepared to note the reporting number of the car and have the CSX phone number programmed into my cell phone. Not such a problem on the east coast, but passing trains can start pretty good wild fires.

[wabash1]

I have had several railfans with good intentions call in on us saying that we had sticking brakes and/ or smoke from wheels only to find nothing it wasnt long that this person was found. ( he gave away his location and admitted to calling in.) and was advised that we did like the idea of false reports. I was told he was going to jail next time. he has never called in again. I rather not have a railfan call in. back in my conductor days i was reperted to the police as a hobo riding the rear car ( we cut the train outside of town 37 deep) when dispatch ask us where we was and told us i told them that was us. got a laugh out of it, but if you dont know dont bother the railroad,

[Anonymous]

With all due respect, and I can certainly understand the tendency to distrust reports
like these (there are enough loose screws out there who crave attention that they call
in false reports), if I see something OBVIOUSLY wrong, like what's been described
as a flaming bearing box or a pin lifter banging down between the cars or a load
that's just about to fall off, I'm going to call it in. I'll give my name, my address, phone
number, whatever they want with as much info on the train as I can give. The hobo
thing was ludicrous indeed for somebody to report that - anybody would know a hobo
wouldn't make himself that obvious but if I see a kid hanging on the end of a train
like I did in Cedar Rapids once - yep, I'm calling.

[tree68]

There was recently an incident in my area involving a hopper of bauxite - the stuff used to make aluminum. Apparently there was a small leak of the powder, but it must have been obvious enough to raise someone's suspicions. The local fire department was called out, but once the train crew saw what it was, they continued their trip. The HazMat boys were all ready to do their thing, too.

Have no idea who called it in. All I know is what I heard on the fire radio.

[dharmon]

Sure It wasn't leaking from a bauxcar??

[:)][:)]

[lrfogle]

Was sitting in my vehicle about a month ago at grade crossing watching BNSF move a cut of grain cars from yard lead over to main when a rail broke and they put the first three cars on the ground. Was back behind the "white" line with my vehicle, but kid on a bike was leaning on the crossing gate. I yelled at him when I saw the cars going down. Talked to the lad since and he now has a healthy respect for the trains. Maybe something we should all remember!

Everyone have a happy and SAFE holiday season!

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Sure It wasn't leaking from a bauxcar??

[:)][:)]

Well, we are pretty close to Canada...[:D]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Sure It wasn't leaking from a bauxcar??

[:)][:)]

[xx(] Groan!

Mook

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Sure It wasn't leaking from a bauxcar??

[:)][:)]

[xx(] Groan!

Mook

MlaM,
Since joining the forums I have refocused my life. I believe that God had placed me on Earth now with the singular purpose of entertaining your officemates through your verbal responses to the forum posts......[:D][;)]

Which beats finding a real job.......[:D]

oh yeah and I get to be Kevin's forum punching bag too........[:D][:D] joking Kevin, only joking[:D]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Sure It wasn't leaking from a bauxcar??

[:)][:)]

[xx(] Groan!

Mook

MlaM,
Since joining the forums I have refocused my life. I believe that God had placed me on Earth now with the singular purpose of entertaining your officemates through your verbal responses to the forum posts......[:D][;)]

Which beats finding a real job.......[:D]

oh yeah and I get to be Kevin's forum punching bag too........[:D][:D] joking Kevin, only joking[:D]

[:D] I laugh so much in here - they are out ordering nets!

Mookie

[Anonymous]

Nets? Did I miss something??? [:p] I think that a rubber room is in order for you. [:D] Later.

[coalminer3]

railbaux?

Couldn't resist...sorry

work safe

[locomutt]

Railbeaux[?]
They are coming with nets for you[:D]
Rembemer to watch for squirells[:D]
locomutt[}:)]

[heavyd]

I was told when lifting empty boxcar to, yes, make sure the door was closed. But every time I found one open it was because it was jammed or the door runner was screwed. You needed a forklift to close the door! I was also told that if the door would not close to take the car anyway. We would spot it on a shop track to be repaired. Why would anyone refuse to lift the car just because the door was stuck open? How does that customer get the next load? Don't forget that while you are railroadin' that you are also providing customer service! A shipper checks to make sure the next days loads have been spotted and finds yesterday 's empty boxcar still there! This guy might get his stuff trucked in next time!!!