Sandpatch

[ironhorseman]

[tup] Well, wouldn't you know that there was some info on Sand Patch all this time in an issue of Trains Magazine that I have? Oct. 1997 pg 68: "ON LOCATION: Sand Patch's east slope."

It looks at the area from Sand Patch to Hyndman and the history from the begining, building the tunnels, and some other stuff. In 1997 they talk about closing the towers and act like once that happens they'll be torn down. Has that happened yet?

[tup] Also I was glad to see in Feb 2004 issue pg 58 Railroad Blueprint: "Underdogs Really Are Better: The Western Maryland: Cumberland, Md., 1973." There's some good info and a map. There's a lot more to Cumberland than a road atlas or internet map can tell me. The yard at Baltimore Street is what's in Train Simulator, but the simulation got the connection between the B&O and WM wrong, but I don't care, just an observation. Also I didn't realize how many railroads and tracks went in and out of Maryland. The WM tracks in TrainSim go up the mountain and around the corner and terminate at Wills Creek and Jennings Run. It doesn't go all the way down to Helmstetters Curve [:(] oh well. It'd make a good project to model the line all the way to at least Mt. Savage and beyond. It'd also be a great project to work in the B&O station, Cumberland Yard, Ridgeley Yard, Knobmount yard, MY tower, and South Cumberland and other parts as well. It'd also be nice to extend the simulation to Connellsville.

Question: for the above info the map is dated 1973. What is left of those yards? Are there any old maps of them? (It says Knobmount closed in 1975, I guess the rest are gone too?) Roundhouses in Cumberland: are they gone, too, I suppose?

This not only looks like a great TrainSim project but a great model railroad project, too. [^]

[Anonymous]

yeh, just trying to emphasize.

[csxengineer98]

trainheatedguy
i made mention of amtrak P029 and P030 in my pervious posting
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Forgot to mention, the Capitol Limited, p29 & p30, amtrak does run daily between Washington DC and Chicago, so it would run through there. It is on average a consist of 2 AMD 103s, 8 Superliner cars, and 7-8 amtrak box/baggage cars.

[Anonymous]

as you could expect with CSX in control, the chessie steam special did not run after CSX took over ([:D]otherwise it would be called the CSX steam Special[:D]), and I have heard that CSX has a strong dislike for steam[}:)]. I think I heard that some of the consist was damaged or destroyed in a fire, but Im not sure. I do have access to a good amount of info, so I will post back on what I find.[;)]

For now, here is the background on another site: http://www.bullsheet.com/news/atmpb.html

[PNWRMNM]

Ironhorseman,

Railroads actually place mileposts every mile. UP even places signs at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 points. I suspect what you are seeing with the simulators is the oddities of the program/programmer.

[Modelcar]

....Sorry can't relate what has become of it but sure did see it pass through here, [Muncie], in the early 70's...Fresh in my mind is the sound of the whistle...Kinda shrill like...

[ironhorseman]

[:)] Thanks a lot, everyone, for all the info. It helps to have some background.

NEW QUESTIONS:

#10 - Maybe this is just more of an observation, but the Keystone Sub (at least on train simulator) has mile posts listed at every mile, the Northeast Corridor route has mile posts every half mile, and the Marias Pass route on the BNSF in Montana has mile posts at land marks only (like at stations, sidings, and certain crossings). Does anyone know why differnt railroads do it differntly?

#11 - On a semi-related note, what has become of the Chessie Steam Special? I've seen some old footage of it from the 1970s in those brilliant yellow and orange colors. Very nice engine.

[Modelcar]

...Item no. 6: A bit more of info on the S&C....There was a branch off that constructed after WWII that wyed off at Coleman and routed several miles to near Shanksville. [Yes, the famous Shanksville where Flt. no. 93 crashed]. It was constructed to bring out coal from Strip coal mining projects in that area. I believe that work is finished now but I also believe the rails are still in. [8D]

[Modelcar]

Item no. 8: From Cumberland climbing to the Summit the max. grade is about 2.5% and you gain 1500 ft. The summit is at 2258 ft. el. and the max grade is between Mance and Manila. This grade is on the southeast side of the summit...and that is Sand Patch, Pa.

[Modelcar]

....Item no. 4: The Tourist line to Frostburg from Cumberland is Western Maryland Scenic Railroad....

[Modelcar]

No. 6: A few comments about the route from Rockwood to Johnstown. Distance is roughly 40-45 miles. S&C..[Somerset & Cambria Branch], was a heavy coal hauler out of that territory about 50 years ago....Quite a few trains each work day. Can't tell you just how many mines were along that distance but it was at least a dozen and perhaps more. The route has a point of stiff grades just north of Kimelton and south of 218 bridge. Grade is right around 3% and it required plenty of help to bring loaded coal trains up through there...including pushers on the rear...[Steamers, of course].
The line travels within a mile of my former home [Stoystown], and I have clear memories of the sounds of the coal trains working up grade towards Somerset.
CSX Engineer above...has mentioned there is minimum traffic still on it but almost no regular coal traffic. I have seen them take strings of new railcars built at Johnstown America Car builders up through there to Rockwood for east or west movement. I assume there may be a little of that still done at times.

[csxengineer98]

1 the sub from cumberland to rockwood is called the keystone sub... cumberland terminal sub begins at viaduck Jct. where the 3rd divistion sub from graftion comes into cumberland turminal....
5..no the berilin sub is gone..no rails left...
6. the branch line that starts at rockwood and goes to johnstown is called the S&C sub and it is still in use...a local goes up to J-town from rockwood about evey other day
7.. yes amcrash still uses the line from cumberland to pittsburgh...amtrak P029 (west bound) and amtrak P030 (east bound) come throw at some point evey day
8. no..none of the mines that are where servied by any of any of the rail roads are no longer being serviced by trains... if they are still open at all...now once in a while thier is a coal drag from the S&C to cumberland but from what i understand...that train is loaded by front loaders, the coal is trucked into the loading area

this information is current...i dont know what was realy all up that way in the 80s,
hope some of it helps you out
csx engineer
CW-44-9AC....only thing better in the world....is sex

[JoeKoh]

3 the railroad that goes to frostburg was the former western maryland(now part of csx)
stay safe
Joe

[JoeKoh]

2 viaduct junction is where the pittsburgh line and the line from grafton west virginia come together
1 cumberland sub
6 sommerset and johnstown
8the grade coming into cumberland from grafton w virginia is .5 but by the time you get to altamont you reach grades of 2.19
i believe amtrak still operates the capitol limited to washington on that line
you might want to check out charles s roberts on a website I got this info from his books west end and east end
I hope this info helps
stay safe(and your running with gp38-2's too great! )
Joe

[ironhorseman]

I've added the Sandpatch route (Cumberland to Rockwood, PA) to my train simulator and have a bunch of questions.

1 What's the name of that subdivision?
2 Where does Viaduct Juction go?
3 What railroad goes to Frostburg?
4 What's the name of the tourist railroad in Cumberland?
5 Is the Berlin sub still active?
6 Where does that other sub at Rockwood go to? and is it still used?
7 Does Amtrak still run that line?
8 What % grade is on the south side of Sand Patch? (or is the west side? you know the side on the way to Cumberland?)
9 Are those mines still active up there?

That's all for now. BTW: the simulation era is cir. 1985. Love those Chessie, B&O, C&O, and WM locos.