Ballast Cleaning?

[blhanel]

EWWWWWW!!!!

[CShaveRR]

Yeah, we used to hump those things!

I remember one that we humped not too long after a hard rain had made the load particularly soupy.  First I knew about it was the GYM saying "Here comes lunch!"  I touched it up in the top retarder and noticed how it was sloshing from end to end as it passed me.  I let it go a bit in the intermediate retarder, but the guy in the lower tower had no choice but to grab it--about half of the load went over the end of the gon and onto the switch at the end of the retarder.

Just added to the various yard aromas around that place...

[zardoz]

The small depot in Oak Creek WI on the C&NW used to get open cars filled with animal guts for the local fertilizer / glue plants.  On hot days the stuff would bubble up and over the car sides.  When they relaid some rails they found that the fats had permeated the cinder ballast and ground and disintegrated the ties, making the ground spongy and prone to causing derailments.

I guess the crews had a hard time digging out the dirt and filling it in with fresh ballast -- hard because they kept getting sick to their stomachs from the stench in the ground.  Enjoy lunch everybody!

Dave Nelson

Thank you ever so much for reminding me about the "guts" cars; I used to have to switch that plant--truly a fragrance one does not quickly forget; and thanks to you, I now remember it well. 

[dknelson]

There is a famous story -- possibly just that, a story -- about the President of the Pennsylvania Railroad who arranged to have his ashes scattered on Horseshoe Curve from the back of his private observation car.  And one of the superintendents, who had always hated the guy, immediately ordered out the ballast cleaning train to go over Horseshoe Curve .....   Like I said, maybe just a story. 

If you ever see a ballast cleaning train in operation --- have pity for those living nearby who have their laundry out on the line or who have their windows open!  They really throw up a dust storm.  A rail grinder train throws out plenty of gritty dust too.  Don't stand too close.

All sorts of interesting stuff has been used for ballast including crushed oyster shells.  While railroads often used cinders because they were plentiful and free, both cinders and foundry slag (another free ballast) had the effect of corroding rails.  I have shots of old tie plates in the former Rock Island yard in Bureau Jct Illinois -- the yard itself was ballasted with cinders and you can still see the cinders everywhere -- and the tie plates and some remaining rails are virtually eaten away, far more than rust itself would do.

The small depot in Oak Creek WI on the C&NW used to get open cars filled with animal guts for the local fertilizer / glue plants.  On hot days the stuff would bubble up and over the car sides.  When they relaid some rails they found that the fats had permeated the cinder ballast and ground and disintegrated the ties, making the ground spongy and prone to causing derailments.

I guess the crews had a hard time digging out the dirt and filling it in with fresh ballast -- hard because they kept getting sick to their stomachs from the stench in the ground.  Enjoy lunch everybody!

Dave Nelson

 

[rrnut282]

Dumb questions,

don't you find it more difficult to shape granite ballast and get it to interlock and hold since it fractures with a "smoother edge" than does limestone?  And are you talking about "soft" limestone or dolomite?

[mudchicken]

Mmmmmmm...The smell of lime powder in the morning. smells like rapidly degrading ballast section and a frustrated surfacing gang to me

[jeaton]

Three things:  Drainage, drainage and drainage.

 

No drainage, no railroad foundation....might as well put all your shiny toys back in the box.

1.435m = Might explain to him about how you cannot just keeping dumping ballast forever, what a sled is, what ballast pockets are, about creo wood tie decay acceleration with water and mud, ballast gradations (3.5", 1.75",0.75" and screenings) & Brinnell Hardness, what's wrong with gravel and so on.

MOJAX...well yeah, the only stuff going back into the track should be the ballast - Albeit less than what was there. Ever seen the windrow the ballast cleaner, shoulder cleaner, undercutter leaves behind?

I kid you not, the other day the client's other engineering firm was suggesting limestone was OK for a 20MGT/year line operated at 50 mph with 286K cars.

S. Hadid 

Look at the bright side.  That would mitigate the effect of acid rain on the ROW flora.

[Anonymous]

Three things:  Drainage, drainage and drainage.

 

No drainage, no railroad foundation....might as well put all your shiny toys back in the box.

1.435m = Might explain to him about how you cannot just keeping dumping ballast forever, what a sled is, what ballast pockets are, about creo wood tie decay acceleration with water and mud, ballast gradations (3.5", 1.75",0.75" and screenings) & Brinnell Hardness, what's wrong with gravel and so on.

MOJAX...well yeah, the only stuff going back into the track should be the ballast - Albeit less than what was there. Ever seen the windrow the ballast cleaner, shoulder cleaner, undercutter leaves behind?

I kid you not, the other day the client's other engineering firm was suggesting limestone was OK for a 20MGT/year line operated at 50 mph with 286K cars.

S. Hadid 

[mudchicken]

Three things:  Drainage, drainage and drainage.

 

No drainage, no railroad foundation....might as well put all your shiny toys back in the box.

1.435m = Might explain to him about how you cannot just keeping dumping ballast forever, what a sled is, what ballast pockets are, about creo wood tie decay acceleration with water and mud, ballast gradations (3.5", 1.75",0.75" and screenings) & Brinnell Hardness, what's wrong with gravel and so on.

MOJAX...well yeah, the only stuff going back into the track should be the ballast - Albeit less than what was there. Ever seen the windrow the ballast cleaner, shoulder cleaner, undercutter leaves behind?

[Colorado Railroads]

Hmm. Things that are more costly than the machines and downtime to clean a roadbed:

• Rebuilding a stretch of rail
• Digging out and re-railing locomotives and rolling stock
• Compensating a customer for spilled goods
• Defending from a lawsuit over negligence causing damaged people and/or property
• Putting out a fire caused by a few weeds and a spark or hotbox

[JoeKoh]

yep. if you want a picture of a loram model email me.

stay safe

joe

[Bunn19]

That add on the inside of the front cover of this months trains is what got me thinking about ballast cleaning.

[MOJAX]

The inside front of this months Trains magazine has a photo of a ballast cleaning system.  It appears to be towed by a work train. Does the device pick up the ballast, clean it and then return it to the roadway?

[jeaton]

Cleaning removes fines such as ballast pieces, organic matter, crossties splinters and chips, windblown dirt and sand, locomotive sand, subgrade infiltration, mud sloughing from the sides of cuts, etc.  Fines retain water leading to saturation of the subgrade and instability of the track, promote growth of weeds, make it more difficult to hold line and surface, interfere with proper operation of tamping machines, and cause false occupancies on signaling systems.  That leads to temporary speed restrictions, train delays and excessive maintenance costs.

The largest problem with fouled ballast is that water does not drain away immediately.

Mudchicken will add something pithy.

 

 

S. Hadid 

Like I said.

[Anonymous]

Cleaning removes fines such as ballast pieces, organic matter, crossties splinters and chips, windblown dirt and sand, locomotive sand, subgrade infiltration, mud sloughing from the sides of cuts, etc.  Fines retain water leading to saturation of the subgrade and instability of the track, promote growth of weeds, make it more difficult to hold line and surface, interfere with proper operation of tamping machines, and cause false occupancies on signaling systems.  That leads to temporary speed restrictions, train delays and excessive maintenance costs.

The largest problem with fouled ballast is that water does not drain away immediately.

Mudchicken will add something pithy.

S. Hadid 

[jeaton]

Three things:  Drainage, drainage and drainage.

[Bunn19]

I have seen ballast cleaners and heard about them, but exactly what is the point in cleaning ballast? Does it add strength to the roadbed or something? How does having clean ballast benefit the railroad?