equipment on VIA's "Canadian"

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Just wondering what equipment VIA is using these days on their transcontinental "Canadian" train. From photos it looks like 1940s-50s Budd built cars. Anybody know the exact origins of these cars? Old CP and CN stuff, or did they pick up some retired equipment from the U.S.?

I'm considering taking the family on this train (son's 2 and never been on a train before) and am just wondering what it's like. Is the equipment well-maintained? Service good? It sure looks like a well-run train, lots of pride.

Although I was born too late for the really great trains, I had the great fortune to ride the Rio Grande Zephyr, the Southern Crescent, and the Adirondack when the D&H had some of their nice stuff in the consist. I'd love for my son to have the experience of riding a really fine train, and it looks the Canadian might be the finest left on our continent.

Thanks

[BR60103]

Most of the equipment on the Canadian is the CP equipment that has always been on it. There are a number of coaches and baggage cars that were bought from American RRs. All the sleepers and dome cars are original.
The cars were built 1954-5 and were substantailly refurbished in the 1970s, including conversion to HEP. The were "remanufactured" in the 1990s.
The Train runs 3 days a week (Tu, Th, Sa out of Toronto) taking just under 3 days to get to Vancouver (Tu train arrives Fr). If you want a shorter trip, Edmonton to Vancouver has the most spectacular scenery.
The same equipment is used east of Montreal to Halifax and Gaspe.
The original FP7s and FP9s are all long gone; the usual locos are 2 or 3 F40s.

[daveklepper]

I rode many of the "great trains." No less than an authority than Leonard Berstein, who was Passenger Service Manager for D&RGW during Rio Grand Zephyr days told me he regards the Canadian as the nearest thing to a recreation of the old California Zephyr (which I did ride twice), except that usually there aren't quite enough domes during high season to meet the demand for dome seats. That to me is a very high recommendation. I rode the old Candadian (CP) once, only from Brandon to Winnepeg, before the days of Via. From Leonard's description, I'd say the train is better under VIA. Dave Klepper

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. Just of curiosity, what happened to the old CN equipment? Didn't the Supercontinental have vista domes, too?

I'm really glad to hear VIA's running such a fine train. I live in Maine so probably will begin the journey somewhere in Quebec. Thinking about a stopover in Banff, then on to Vancouver.

It does make one a little sad that the U.S. doesn't have a train up to those standards anymore. I've been on dozens of Amtrak trips in my life, many of them enjoyable, but I have to say that there's just a depressing mediocrity that runs through the organization. There was a palpable sense of pride on something like the RGZ, the Southern Crescent, the Adirondack, that doesn't exist on Amtrak.

I realize a lot of it has to do with the fact that Amtrak is run on a shoestring. What's the situation with VIA? Do they operate in the black? I imagine Canadians might be more supportive of their trains, and they seem to have fewer of the long-distance trains that bleed Amtrak dry.

[Grinandbearit]

As noted in some of the previous posts, the Canadian now runs from Toronto to Vancouver and uses CN tracks all the way. The part from Edmonton to Vancouver is scenic but from Jasper on its after dark arriving in Vancouver around 7:00 am. It also does not go to Banff. You would have to take a bus from Jasper to Banff.
Most of the equipment is ex CP refurbished but is beginning to show the need for another refit. The ex U.S. equipment has been refurbished and is used mainly on the Quebec City to Windsor corridor. If your in Maine maybe you could ride the OCEAN from Moncton to Montreal ( in the new Renaissance equipment) and connect with a corridor train to Toronto to board the CANADIAN.
The old 'Super' equipment is long gone but some of the coaches may exist in museums or excursion services.
No , VIA is subsidized just like every other passenger rail operation, although our government is now proposing many bucks for further upgrades to track and equipment and even talking about high speed trains. There is also some talk about putting a Via train on some of the old CP route through the Rockies in competition with the Rockie Mountaineer excursion train which runs from Calgary to Vancouver.
I hope this helps a bit and I sure the other Canucks will have information as well.

[Grinandbearit]

Oh, Just another hint about the Canadian. If you are planning a trip and want to book a double bedroom (Silver and Blue class) start about 3 or 4 months ahead. Even in the winter its hard to get a double without booking far ahead.

[brilondon]

The equiptment on the " Canadian " is originally from the Canadian Pacific and has been rebuilt form steam heated coaches and sleepers to HEP. They were completly rebilt during a breif period. Unfortunatly you are going to have to hurry to ride this equipment as it is going to be replaced by the renaissance coaches and sleepers from England's nightstar train that was never put into service through the chunnel. As of right now there are no plans that I know of to replace the domes.

The CN equiptment that was originally on the " Super Continental " has been scrapped or put into museums. You can find the odd coach on a tourist line in Canada or the United States. This equiptment was originally built by Canadian Car and Foundary in Montreal. The coaches were comfortable but smelled odd. The CP had contracted Budd to build the coaches through their own facilities in Calgary.

Today you can ride the coaches purchased from the United States on the Corridor. These too will be replaced by the Renaissance coaches when enough coaches become availible. The coaches from the US are actually less comfortable then any thing else VIA has to offer. They are also the noisiest coaches to ride as you feel every bump as well as hear it.

[Anonymous]

Just to give some visual aide:

Transcontinental Exterior: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=32773
Transcontinental Interior: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=39691

Will be replaced by this in the future:
Renaissance Car Exterior: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=20901
Renaissance Car Interior: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=20816

And the dome cars will be replaced by this:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=29553

[BR60103]

Canadian National had a small number of full-length dome cars (ex-Milwaukee Road?) but the usually kept them on the stretch in the mountains, west of Edmonton. They also had some Milwaukee observation cars, but they were taken out of service because there was no rear door.
As far as I can tell, there are 3 CN cars in use on the train between Lynn Lake and The Pas. Most of the CN cars were disposed of when the major service reductions took place in the '80s.
At one point the government had promised VIA money to replace the Canadian cars. The amount was reduced so that VIA had to rebuild them instead.
Remember that these cars are now 50 years old -- compare that to a road vehicle the same age.

[Anonymous]

Hey, thanks for all the info. and links.

So they're retiring the old Budd stuff, eh? Not surprising. I remember even back in the eighties the DRG&W was having a tough time keeping the old CZ equipment going because of the age. I think I read somewhere that most of those cars had over a million miles logged on them by that time. You can only rebuild so often.

That looks like only two domes in the picture referred to--the observation and a coach. Is that all they run?

Any idea when the old equipment is going to be retired? I may accelerate my plans if they're planning to do that soon, although it's an expensive vacation going on the sleepers and I may need to save up for a while before splurging!

[Anonymous]

I spent some frequent flyer miles on a ticket to Winnipeg about 8 years ago and then drove about 1.5 hrs west to Portage La Prairie with the express purpose of photographing the Canadian. The train arrived exactly on-time and was pulled by two well-maintained F40PH-2 engines facing east and the train itself looked like something out of a model train set (all the cars perfectly matching and in beautiful shape). I also got great shots of CN and CP traffic there (VIA used the CN tracks - had to hustle from the VIA/CN depot across about 100 yards of ground covered in 8 inches of snow to get the CP trains passing the boarded-up CP depot). I also succeeded in obliterating the local Super Eight hotel bar's supply of Moosehead, so it was a very nice trip.

[BR60103]

The train usually has a minimum of 2 domes -- the first dome is also the diner for the coach passengers; the second is in the Park (dome/observation) at the end. Sleeper passengers have a separate diner that the plebs aren't allowed in.
When the train gets longer, more domes are added in the sleeper section.