Topic for people who think alot.

[Anonymous]

Ok here it is.
Why is the Rail Industy so far behind the Airline industry or the Truckin Industry?
Its faster?
Cheaper?
More Efficent?
Less traffic (cars, trucks, and other motor vehicles) to deal with?
More money invested in it?

And: Ok I know people have been saying enough Amtrak talk but, why cant Our Class 1 frieght railways start up passenger rail again, and is it ever going to be possible?

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Why is the Rail Industy so far behind the Airline industry or the Truckin Industry?

Railroads have to pay for and maintain their right-of-way; Airlines and Truckers have their right-of-way subsidized by the government.

Excesses in the 19th Century, when railroading was big business brought on regulations that remained in place, even when railroading was in decline. Moreover, regulation tended to freeze the mindset of railroad executives, union officials, and government regulators, which stifled innovation and in many cases retarded modernization. It took the Penn Central debacle to bring all this to the attention of the public.

There are some who suggest that the railroad industry has squandered the opportunities deregulation offered. And to too many people, railroading still conjures up images of the "robber barons" of the 19th century.

QUOTE: Ok I know people have been saying enough Amtrak talk but, why cant Our Class 1 frieght railways start up passenger rail again, and is it ever going to be possible?

Passenger service has almost always lost money, and was subsidized by freight rates. Unfortunately, the regulations I mentioned above effectively froze rates, and required railroads to maintain passenger service even when it was losing money hand-over-fist. Moreover, the advantages of automobile and air transportation have more or less permanently taken customers away from the railroads.

Some years ago, I had a friend who lived near Topeka, Kansas. To get to Topeka, Kansas by rail, I would have to get on a train in Chicago*, about 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening, and the train would arrive in Topeka about 2:00AM, and I was still looking at a long drive to the village where my friend lived. By taking a flight from O'Hare, I had basically a two-hour flight to Kansas City, a choice of several daytime flights, and even though my friend had to drive two hours to get to the airport, he could do it at a civil hour, and at least have some conversation on the way home.

The other problem is that the railroads are making money moving lots of freight, and passenger trains tend to get in the way. Some railroads are complaining that to introduce even new commuter service would require the construction of additional capacity: sidings, signals, passenger stations, etc.

Passenger rail service will only succeed when high-speed rail becomes available, but in that instance, the passenger trains will have their own right-of-way, and very likely it will be subsidized, and quite probably operated by the government.

In a lot of ways, passenger rail service is a useful and beneficial infrastructure, but unprofitable. As such, it lends itself easily to government subsidation and operation.

You wanted to know.



*I will not mention that I lived on the C&NW commuter line that terminated in North Western Station, while the train to Topeka left from Union Station. I was not happy about having to walk, with luggage, to Union Station, and the cab drivers were less than sympathetic to my situation. There was no other convenient way for me to catch my train.

[Anonymous]

Railroads are the oldest of the mentioned transportation technologies. Their physical plants and management philosophies are more established, rigid, and inflexible relative to the newer forms. But rail technology carries on because of it's efficiency in specialized situations (bulk, containers, commuter passenger, etc.). There's some hope for a slight comeback for general freight as trucks start to lose efficiency on our ever more crowded freeways.

[Anonymous]

You know what Dan, that bugs me too. It's not like the Metra station is just around the corner from Union station. You would think there could be some kind of connection, a subway or a bus or something.

[Anonymous]

To put it simply...Americans as a whole love their automobiles. And while govements continue to love their autos, they are going to build more freeways and improve the road transport situation! We have had this problem in England for years (All started at the end of WW2!) The Conservative goverment killed our railways...cuts to funding, reduction of services. And now....the company I work for (English Welsh and Scottish railways) are being bushed out of the way for more passenger trains! Add to that out restricted loading gauge and rotten old infastructure.....passenger companys are being told to improve their act with regards to train comfort and reducing delays....whilst at the same time the Goverment cuts our funding! Plus the confusion of having different companys looking after different parts of the track in different parts of the country, whilst companys (many of them hire their stock from other companys, some trains are helled as assets by banks!) All trying to share this over crowded joke of a railway? Result? Utter confusion!
Regards
Kieren

[Anonymous]

Passenger trains on freight lines are like large amounts of cheese to the human body.........total constipation! The world stops for Amtrak and a good trip for me can turn crappy in a hurry! Nothing like sittin' in a siding waiting for a delayed Amtrak to leave the station while I rot! Amtrak to a DS = ulcers.
I would love to see more freight on the rails...it is safer than having a 40 ton truck trying to squash me on the hiway. Rail is way more effecient too. On mixed freight and bulk commodities we average 1 horsepower per ton (with the exception of mountain grades, etc.). Do the math....40 ton truck 400-500 horsepower to move it = 10-12.5 horsepower per ton. Not very effecient. Just my 2 cents.
Ken

[jchnhtfd]

In one word: money. Railroads, as noted above, are the only one of the three (four, if you count barges) which has to own, build, maintain, and pay taxes on its right of way. The others have it provided to them, while not totally free, pretty darn near it by your friendly federal, state, and local governments. This means that an incredible amount of capital is tied up in real estate. This capital is on the balance sheet. The expenses for taxes and maintenance are on the balance sheet.

The investment folks like their capital to show a return, like interest on your savings account. If you have much of your capital tied up in real estate, it reduces your rate of return, and it's hard to attract capital.

You need capital to build new rights of way (e.g. Global III wasn't exactly free) and buy new equipment and upgrade what you have. If you have a low rate of return, it's hard to attract capital.

It would help if local communities didn't tax rail property to death. It would help if state and federal levels gave an even break to the railroads.

Oh well... dream on.

[jchnhtfd]

And furthermore (sorry!) -- are we so sure that railroads are that far behind, particularly trucks? Or airlines? In terms of safety, or moving anything (including people!) in large quantities, I'm not so sure we're doing so bad!

Do we maybe have an inferiority complex, in addition to the very real economic issues I pointed out?

[Anonymous]

I don't think a lot but what little thinking I do goes like this:
Someone (perhaps including railfans who drive) will have to start thinking about the extent to which our planning process discriminates against people who cannot, should not or choose not to drive. Here's a mode of transportation so dangerous that we're forced to use seat belts, air bags and crash helmets. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Should local and county governments be allowed to approve new development that's accessible only for motorists? That seems like a violation of everyone's constitutional right to equality and our right to life. Put people who don't drive in our planning equation and alternatives to motor vehicles and highways will make more sense.

[dehusman]

Define "so far behind". Behind in what respect?

The railroads aren't behind in passenger traffic. They made a concious decision years ago to get out of that business since it was a loser. And the airlines aren't doing so swuft with it either.

The trucks regularly underbid the railroads on cost to move stuff, but then again, trucking companies have a high bankruptcy rate also. If you price your business low to gain market share and then go out of business, are you ahead?

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

To me it just seems that there are a lot more planes, and automobiles, in volume, than there are trains. I know intermodal business has skyrocketed in the last year or so but to me it seems they are behind. And if you say the railways are doing well why cant a partnership be worked out between the railways and the Bush Administration to form a new National passenger system. The Class 1's could do something with all of that money they have................
That is if they have any money.
Im pretty much saying this as a railfan. I want more trains!
I know the Class 1's and the government wont give a damn but I want to let all of you know.

[brilondon]

I think as much as I need to. So here is what I think. I think that the truckers who are independent are in alot of trouble these days as they have to keep up with their expenses which include INSURANCE. They are barely able to keep up with their expenditures and alot of them are not making enough to get by. Unforunatly alot of these truckers are unable to find employment in other fields because there is not alot of decent paying jobs to live on out there. So they just get by hoping that a turnaround in the economy is coming soon. Another problem truckers have is the border. They have to wait hours to clear their loads through customs and since WTC tragedy it is not as quick as it use to be ( read three to four times longer at the boarder ). Indie truckers also cannot really charge any more to make up for lost revenue they loose while sitting at the border because of the cutthroat nature of their business. That is the trucker side of the business. The airline side of the business is not much better these days, as the only airlines making money these days are the discount airlines with no frills for the passengers. The freight side of the airlines is very expensive as well and bulk commodities are not even thinkable by air. Unfortunatly rail is very capital intensive and unless you are willing to pay for your own spur line into you place of business... it is best for getting bulk commodities and intermodal freight to destinations. Well I done all the thinking for a week and I think I will rest now.

[wabash1]

why passenger service will never get better. the public has been pampered with the freedom of comming and going when they want to not when the train is leaving. In commuter service if you dont want to park downtown you adapt to when the train leaves when on vacation people wont wait to see when the train is going to leave they leave when they want to. and do as they want. people want to go and come when they want to not when someone else says to .