I live in Racine and work in downtown Milwaukee, I carpool from the park-n-ride 3 days a week and take Amtrak the other two. Traffic isn't bad but gas prices are now if I drove everyday I'd be spending $80 on gas and I use to have to pay $20 a week or $40 a paycheck for parking in a parking structure that was breakin central and always smelled like ****. So now I save on gas money get some great exercise, and I get to ride a train 2 times a week. Now its more in the range of $4 a week for parking and $64 for 10 ride ticket on Amtrak, and $20 for ride share every two weeks. I am sick of are stupid *** politicans like Scott Walker who think the Express busses to nowhere will solve Milwaukee's transit problems, but that is another rant for another disscusion group. I would love to see either more Amtrak service or the KRM to auctally happen and not just talk about it.
I think we have a blown opportunity here.
I doubt that I-94 has improved any since we used to have to travel it regularly to get to and from my baby girl's school in Appleton. So widening and repairing it, and the necessity thereof, is a "given". But there have been successful instances of rail service being set up to alleviate traffic during the reconstruction period. After which, if it's meant not to be, it won't be.
What, if anything, is Amtrak doing to combat construction delays?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
from the 5/29 edition of the Kenosha News (red highlights mine):
A Wisconsin Department of Transportation plan to widen Interstate 94 has the Milwaukee mayor steamed that a mass transit proposal will not receive attention.The state's plan is supposed to receive federal approval this week, but Mayor Tom Barrett has said he would rather see the money spent on improving bus and rail service from Kenosha County to Milwaukee rather than expanding the highway.Funding for a Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail line has been stalled since last year; no mechanism to fund the rail line was included in the state budget passed earlier this month.State Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuser, D-Kenosha, said he was disappointed in Barrett's remarks. While Kreuser supports the commuter rail line, he said Barrett's current maneuvering would be better spent on worrying about Milwaukee.
"I take great offense to him telling us after years of planning, and now on the brink of construction, that he is now trying to derail us on this issue. I want to work in a cooperative way with people, but in the same vein ... people should pick up the phone instead of publicly trying to stop or delay a project that is about to get under way."Federal dollars used for road construction cannot be used for mass transit construction, according to state transportation Secretary Frank Busalacchi.Kenosha-area legislators had attempted to revive the fee structure for local funding of the proposed rail system earlier this year, but were not successful."As of now, nothing is going to happen, and it probably won't until the next legislative session," Kreuser said. "Right now KRM is on hold, and until Racine and Milwaukee figure out their strategic plans, I will use my time on issues that are of interest to Kenosha County and the citizens thereof."Karl Ostby, chairman of the Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority, said he was encouraged by Barrett's stance."From my standpoint, I'm pumped to see Milwaukee get a little excited about this," he said "But I do have to agree with (Busalacchi) because (the funding for KRM and I-94 construction), it's really two different pots of money." Like Kreuser, Ostby is pointing toward the next legislative session for movement on commuter rail.He said he is encouraged at the prospect of greater grassroots support and in working with the business community. Ostby said generally larger businesses and companies have been in favor of the commuter rail.Meanwhile, representatives of local trucking companies said they support both projects. Jeff Zizzo, manager of Zizzo's in Kenosha, said he agrees that the extra lanes on I-94 would be helpful for commercial traffic, but at the same time he isn't against commuter rail lines."I would say that if it were passenger cars for personal use or mass transit, mass transit is the way to go," he said. "There's a lot of traffic out there, and when you see one car down the road driving with one person in it, well, you wonder why they're not (carpooling). You'd think with the price of gas, they would ride with friends. But (truck drivers) can't do that, obviously."I think the extra lanes would relieve some of the crowding, but as far as what the government does, they're going to do what they need to do," Zizzo added.
Pat Leonhardt, owner of Pat's Bell City trucking, said the extra lanes wouldn't make that much of a difference to her business since downsizing from semi-trailers to a cargo van recently."For me it wouldn't make any difference, but it might to the bigger guys," said the Somers resident. "Mass transit ... I don't know if that's the way to go either. I do know one thing and that is the roads are in need of repair. They need a lot of repair."
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=3037448
Seems like the KRM project is going nowhere fast.
Kenosha's next mayor could see the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee (KRM) commuter rail link become a reality.But there's a long track before that happens.The proposal has been stalled after difficulties in determining a funding source for the program; a proposed rental car tax was taken out of the state budget.A link to Milwaukee could assist Kenosha, but the questions of where the money would come from and how important this system could be still weigh on a number of mayoral candidates.
Keith Bosman said the system, if it stays at the projected location of the current Metra tracks, could help local businesses."If the KRM becomes a reality, I expect to see more development downtown and on the east end of the county," Bosman said. "I think the related developments for the KRM would be a big plus for our redevelopment efforts."Pat Moran said this system could be important for Kenosha's success."We need to enhance the trains here," Moran said. "I think the critical piece we're missing in the city is transportation. Some kind of regional system has to be established."Everett Butler said the system could be successful in light of gasoline prices."I think it has the potential to be huge when you look at the fuel prices," Butler said. "If you can add transportation at a reasonable price, it makes sense."Scott Barter said he was not hearing much support for the system yet. "I think people would say 'That's nice, but I don't want to pay for it,'" Barter said. "I don't see anyone really excited about this, and there are other concerns out there."Michael Bell said he also had hoped to hear more about the project before this point."They never articulated their vision to the public," Bell said.Maria Perri also hoped that more would have been shared about the KRM proposals."We still don't have enough details," she said.
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2471276
Bill would let voters advance rail planJan. 12, 2008New sales tax could run transit
A bill should soon begin making the rounds of the state legislature that would give voters a chance to decide whether they want to create a new sales tax to run a regional transit authority that could include a commuter rail line and oversee all public transportation needs throughout Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee counties.A new bill is expected to be circulated within the next two weeks that would call for a referendum which, if passed by voters, could create new sales tax up to 0.05 percent, and replace the property tax as the local source of funding for the current transit system.State Rep. Robin Vos, R-Caledonia, and four other Republican legislators may put their name on the bill as co-sponsors because they want voters to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on the idea of creating a regional transit authority.The bill, which is currently in a draft version calls for a two-tier approach to fund a regional transit authority: the first would pay for bus or taxi systems, which any two municipalities with a combined population of 50,000 or more could form a RTA; the second tier would create a funding mechanism for commuter rail, which would require at least five municipalities or at least 10,000 each and a combined population of 375,000 or more."Anecdotally we've heard there is widespread support for this, but I want people to vote with their pocketbooks," Vos said.In the fall, Vos rejected a proposal that would have increased the existing car rental fee from $2 to $13, which would have covered the $500,000 annual local costs for the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail project. A Illinois-based commuter rail line now runs from Chicago north to Kenosha."I rejected it because I think that vote should have been brought to a referendum so that the people can say whether they want it or not and because it was being paid for through an unstable tax source," Vos said. "It also allowed a unit of government to act on their own authority, the board was appointed by the governor and not an elected official, and it would eventually tax a body of people without the vote of the people."The new bill was written by officials with the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities for counties wanting a funding mechanism for the establishment of these RTAs. Within the next two weeks, Vos is expected to add his name as a co-sponsor. Voters from all the municipalities in Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha counties would decide if they want to be part of a RTA. If a regional transit authority was formed for those areas, only those businesses in the RTA regions that approve the referendum would charge customers for the service through the sales tax, Huck said."There is a scenario though, that if all of Milwaukee County, the City of Racine and the City of Kenosha approved it, then they could still establish an RTA," Edward Huck, executive director of the Alliance of Cities, said. "But the service would only be made available to those areas that approve the referendum."Currently, the city provides busing to senior citizens, people who have developmental disabilities, the school district, a regular mass transit service and offers busing at special events. Creating a regional transit authority does not mean a RTA would replace the city's transit system, but it more than likely would run as part of the regional transit authority and would more than likely contract with the RTA.If approved, the regional transit authority would develop a service plan that would consider all forms of transportation and develop a ridership cost based on those needs.Huck also said businesses have endorsed the plan saying that it would spur economic development and also link more people to more jobs."One of the reasons why groups like the AARP are backing us on this is that, with the creation of urban sprawl, we have stranded many elderly folks who have chosen not to drive and they get stranded in the areas where they live," Huck said. The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority was created by the Wisconsin State Legislature and governor in July 2005 to serve the counties of Kenosha, Milwaukee and Racine. The principal duty of the RTA is to recommend to the Legislature and governor a permanent dedicated funding source for the local share of capital and operating costs of commuter rail and public transit. The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority is not opposed to the legislation, but the group has concerns, according to a letter it sent on Jan. 8:"(W)e feel it is critically important both to the RTA and to the Alliance of Cities that the legislation accommodate the specific and different transit challenges of the state - from the Fox Valley, to Dane County and Southeastern Wisconsin. As the RTA compiles its required report to the Governor, it is our plan to recommend funding, governance and municipal structures we feel will best address transit challenges in Southeastern Wisconsin. We would respectfully request that the Alliance of Cities and its legislative allies fully consider this report and its recommendations, and incorporate it into its statewide legislation."
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2363795
Well now here's a refreshing new take on things -
The Republicans are at fault!
It could never be that citizens just don't want to fund it, it has to be political. Leave it to the Journel Sentinel to clarify things for us dumber folk.
Well, I guess in desparation you've got to blame someone for a bad idea.
Commuter rail plan stalls
Divide over funding for trains, buses means line now unlikely to start in 2010
Plans for a Milwaukee-area commuter rail line have been put on hold, amid continuing disagreement over how to fund the trains and the region's public buses.
The deadlock has highlighted a split between the area's business leaders and their usual Republican allies. Major business groups have been pushing for public transit improvements to ensure workers can reach jobs, but GOP legislators and county executives have balked at adding or raising taxes.
One possible solution is state legislation that would allow local governments to hold binding referendums on whether to form regional transit authorities paid for by local sales taxes. Meeting by conference call, the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority voiced support Monday for the basic premise of that legislation - which remains in draft form - but raised questions about how some provisions would apply to this area.
RTA Chairman Karl Ostby said it would be better for the authority to come up with its own comprehensive plan for how the region's public buses and trains should be run and how they should be weaned off the property tax. Current law requires such recommendations be sent to the Legislature and Gov. Jim Doyle by Nov. 15, but Ostby is pushing to complete the plan within the next few months.
The RTA has been planning the KRM Commuter Link, a $200 million train line that would connect Kenosha, Racine, Milwaukee and the southern suburbs for workers, students and shoppers. Passengers could transfer to Chicago's Metra commuter trains at the Kenosha station or ride shuttle buses from the Cudahy station to Mitchell International Airport.
Planners had hoped the line could be running by 2010. That would give commuters a way to avoid driving through the construction zone that will stretch from Milwaukee's south side to the Illinois border during the rebuilding of the Mitchell Interchange and the north-south portion of I-94, a $1.9 billion project that starts next year.
But reaching the 2010 target is unlikely now. With no deal in sight on how to pay for the trains, the RTA voted last month to put its application for federal aid on hold.
If a funding deal comes together this year, trains could be running by 2012, said Ken Yunker, deputy director of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission. That would still be in time for part of the I-94 reconstruction, which would last through 2016.
Finding funding source
Nationwide, sales taxes are the most common way of paying for commuter rail and light rail lines. But when the RTA ran into political opposition to a local sales tax for both trains and buses, it asked the Legislature to authorize a $13-a-car increase in the three-county rental car tax, from $2 to $15, for trains alone. Lawmakers refused.
The rental car tax drew opposition from Milwaukee aldermen and county supervisors, who wanted a revenue source that also could rescue the troubled Milwaukee County Transit System from a funding crisis that threatens to trigger a 35% service cut by 2010.
Business leaders support both the KRM and improved bus funding. The Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce's board supports a transit sales tax that would be tied to a property tax cut.
Regionally, "business leaders see a need to invest in growing the economy," through transit improvements already in place in other major cities, association President Tim Sheehy said.
In general, Democratic mayors, county executives and legislators have been more open to a transit sales tax than their Republican counterparts. As the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities developed its proposed transit authority legislation, GOP lawmakers insisted the taxing bodies be created by referendum, not by elected officials.
Much of the opposition to KRM is based in western Racine County.
West of I-94, Racine County residents think they wouldn't ride the train and wouldn't benefit from it, although economic growth in the city of Racine could help the countywide tax base, Racine Mayor Gary Becker and Racine County Executive Bill McReynolds said. Sales tax opposition also is strong in the county, McReynolds said.
The Alliance of Cities legislation could allow voting by municipalities, rather than counties, to form a new transit authority that might exclude western Racine County. But that approach would be problematic for the RTA, particularly if a community along the KRM line voted against joining the new authority, Ostby said.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=704417
Chapter 8 of "The Never Ending Story":
A regional rail steering committee is expected to recommend that a federal funding application for the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail proposal be put on hold.Fred Patrie, chairman of the committee, said delaying the request for federal "new starts" funding became a likely scenario after the state budget took effect in October, without a dedicated funding source for the KRM rail line.Patrie said the committee will meet today and will likely make a recommendation to the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority to delay the application. The authority will likely take up the matter at its next board meeting Dec. 17."My personal feeling is that filing an application for a New Starts grant without a dedicated funding source to implement it is probably not prudent," said Patrie, who is also Kenosha County public works director. "But that's only my opinion - I have a whole steering committee, and they may come out with some other options. I don't know."Kenosha Area Transit Director Len Brandrup, also a steering committee member, said he understands that the funding application likely will be put on hold.The seven-member committee is made up of one delegate each from the cities and counties of Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee and one state appointee.Ken Yunker, deputy director of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission, said the federal application, which the transit authority filed earlier this year, is "a no-go" without a dedicated local funding source on board.Though the $198 million, 33-mile project is to be built largely with federal funds, the region is required to provide an estimated $4.23 million annually to cover a share of the capital and operating costs. The rail line would run from Kenosha to downtown Milwaukee, with stops in communities in between and connections to existing Metra service to Chicago.In January, the authority board recommended levying a $13 boost in a $2 rental car fee now being charged in Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee counties. That plan - a 650 percent increase - needed legislative approval, however, which it did not receive in the recently adopted 2007-09 state budget."Without a funding source, we have no viable financial plan and, therefore, have to look at a way to preserve our options - and we have several - in order to keep the project alive and move forward," Brandrup said Wednesday.Among these options is a bill being pursued by the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities which would allow transit authorities to levy sales taxes pending the approval of voters in each affected municipality.If a funding source is lined up, Yunker said the transit authority could revitalize its New Starts application next year or in 2009."Putting it on hold means that they're going to continue to work," Yunker said. "They've talked about wanting us to update the cost, working with the (Federal Transit Administration) to update the application."
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2198677
Stay tuned for Chapter 9 next month, as this gets dragged on forever.
And we just can't take 'no' for an answer.
Milwaukee can't fund the bus system it has now! Solution: let's epxand the burden on the surrounding counties and call it a transit authority! Then we can tax sales at our will!!!!!!
And we can still have our choo choo train.
Gotta love it here in the great state of WI. You'd think we live in Los Angeles or something...
The saga continues:
11/18/07
Southeastern Wisconsin mayors, county executives and others agree it would be a good idea to unify Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee's transit systems, a local leader said Thursday. What they haven't reached consensus on is how to pay for it, said Kenosha Mayor John Antaramian. Antaramian, Kenosha County Executive Allan Kehl and their counterparts from Racine, Milwaukee and Waukesha met again behind closed doors Thursday to discuss the possibility of linking the local bus systems under a regional authority. The idea, backers have said, is to create an interchangeable transit system that can provide service across borders while tying into the proposed Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail line. Antaramian said the concept has the support of the business community, which is trying to brand the counties that surround Milwaukee as a greater region. Secondarily, a regional transit authority could conceivably remove local transit from the property tax levy - if officials can agree on a dedicated funding source to pay for it, advocates say. Antaramian, who favors a sales tax for this purpose, said the group at Thursday's meeting did not come any closer to reaching an agreement on funding. "Basically, there are individuals who still have concern about the sales tax," Antaramian said. "I believe it is the appropriate use." Antaramian declined to name who is holding out on the sales tax idea, but Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker and Racine County Executive Bill McReynolds have previously staked out positions against it. Neither could be reached for comment Thursday. Sales tax advocates, including Antaramian, Kehl and Racine Mayor Gary Becker, note that it is the most commonly used method of funding transit throughout the nation. Antaramian said the group of regional leaders plans to hold another meeting next week, though he will likely not attend if a funding consensus does not appear imminent. Kehl was not reachable for comment Thursday afternoon. Kenosha County Public Works Director Fred Patrie, who joined Kehl at the meeting, said he sensed there was some progress in Thursday's talks. "There was a lot of discussion; there were a lot of different ideas," Patrie said. "And I think my summary of it would be that they want to meet again because they asked for some additional information on how the federal government views the various urbanized areas within the three counties (Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee) and including Waukesha County." Patrie said those issues concern how federal funding could be leveraged for a regional system and how the region's urbanized and nonurbanized areas fit together.
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=969698005
11/20/07
It's time to take a step back and look at the options.That was the consensus of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority, which met in Milwaukee on Monday for the first time in months.The authority, charged with finding a funding source for commuter rail and public transit, needed to pause after its proposition to levy a $13 increase to the $2 rental car fee charged in Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee counties to fund the line didn't make it into the latest state budget.But board members said continued support from the community has shown the authority should still find a way to fund the rail.RTA Chairman Karl Ostby said transportation has and will play a key role in economic decisions in the area. For example, Miller and Coors recently announced they were merging, but officials still haven't decided whether the Miller headquarters will relocate to Colorado. And Chicago's bid for the 2016 Olympics has been hampered by transportation woes. Patrick Ryan, who heads the Olympic bid committee, recently told the Greater Milwaukee Committee transportation must be addressed if the city wants to secure the games."I continue to be encouraged by the amount of progress we've made and business support that has been demonstrated for creation of KRM and a solution to the public transit funding issue," Ostby said in a formal statement. "...we remain steadfast in our goal of addressing these transit issues."One option the authority will consider is to support legislation pushed by the Wisconsin Alliance of Cities. Such legislation would allow local governments to unite and form regional transit authorities funded by local sales tax.Other options include supporting separate legislation or putting a budget request in the 2009-11 biennial budget.Also at the meeting, the authority agreed to broaden its focus to a total transit solution that would include local public transit.After the authority agreed to pursue the $15 rental car fee in late 2006, Milwaukee officials said they would not support the fee increase unless the authority came up with a plan to fund transit there. In September, officials from Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee met and agreed it was a good idea to unify those cities and counties under one transit system governed by a regional transit authority.The idea, officials say, is to create an interchangeable transit system that would tie into the proposed rail line. Officials still haven't decided how such a system would be funded; local officials have said they would support using sales tax, but others are against the idea.Though nothing official was decided Monday, the authority will reconvene in December to recommend the next steps for legislative proposals and to consider whether to put a hold on its federal funding application, since it's incomplete without a local funding source in place.
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2122509
And on and on it goes.....
jclass wrote: I picture this route as being very local. Not being in competition with Amtrak.I think the key paragraph of the article was the one describing the importance of weaving commuter rail into the fabric of the area. For instance, employers providing fares as an employee benefit. Auto parking fees aren't cheap. Marketing in the purist sense of its definition is what's been missing so often when it comes to public transportation. Maybe this would be a good opportunity for Colorado Railcar.
I picture this route as being very local. Not being in competition with Amtrak.
I think the key paragraph of the article was the one describing the importance of weaving commuter rail into the fabric of the area. For instance, employers providing fares as an employee benefit. Auto parking fees aren't cheap. Marketing in the purist sense of its definition is what's been missing so often when it comes to public transportation.
Maybe this would be a good opportunity for Colorado Railcar.
Amtrak only makes a few stops on it's route from MILW to Chicago. This new service will stop at many more towns to have this service avaiable to them. Amtrak is good for the Milwaukee to Chicago Commuter, but all of the towns in between are left out. Whether or not there will be competition, I do not know.
Maybe the new service can have the old C&NW bi-level cars that Metra is discontinuing, and they can paint them in C&NW paint with some other lettering on it? There are some old RTA E8's out there that could go back into green and yellow too. I'm making it sound more like a museum than commuter rail...
Phil
Perhaps I was wrong to think this is a dumb idea (although I'm still not convinced, and I question the 'survey' results).
From the Nov.1 Kenosha News:
Though it didn't make it into the budget, the proposed Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail won't die a quick death if local officials have their way.County Board Chairman Terry Rose will present a resolution at the board's meeting Nov. 6 that will reiterate the board's support for the rail.The resolution, which Rose said will be voted on that night, asks the governor and Legislature to "immediately take up the issue of KRM funding." "I think it's extremely important for new development and economic growth in southeastern Wisconsin and particularly Kenosha," Rose said. "I don't think we can wait any longer. It has got to be funded."The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority was seeking language in the budget to allow it to levy a $13 increase to the $2 rental car fee charged in Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee counties to fund the rail.But the language didn't make it into the budget compromise, even though Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuser, D-Kenosha, tried at the 11th hour to pass an amendment to include the language. That amendment failed in a 4-4 party-line vote.But Kreuser said at the time that he and others still hoped to pass the KRM fee as a separate legislation, and he said Monday that although there is no timeline for another try, he continues to work with area officials and business leaders to get it back on track."I think people are regrouping after the budget vote itself," he said. "We will try again. Anything worthwhile is worth the fight."The proposed 33-mile KRM commuter rail would operate up to 10 trains each direction each day, stopping at eight stations along the corridor. Studies showed that about 5,100 trips could be sold on a weekday, and the commuter rail would create 4,700 jobs during construction and would have a $570 million impact on the economy. But the project was plagued by disagreement among the Regional Transit Authority members. Despite an agreement about the funding source, Milwaukee officials later said they would not support the fee increase unless the authority came up with a plan to fund transit there.Others who were opposed said they wouldn't support a rental car tax fee which was essentially a 650 percent increase.So Kreuser said he and other advocates, including County Executive Allan Kehl and Mayor John Antaramian, are willing to go back to the table and find a different funding alternative to move the project forward."If there are some new ideas, I think we're all open to them," he said. Kreuser said if the board passes the resolution next week, he'll take it as a message and a challenge that the Legislature still has work to do."The delegation should move on and try to meet that challenge," he said.Though Kreuser acknowledged that pushing the project through was an uphill battle, he said that now that the budget is done, everyone can focus on other issues."I'm trying to work in a positive atmosphere to try to get some of these people on our side," he said.
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=2002663
samfp1943 wrote: I would suggest caution on this issue for the individuals effected and those who would face the added burden of paying for it. Admittedly, the traffic up and down I-94, and on US-41 warrents, and has warrented for a long time some higher level of public transit than was available in that corridor.
I would suggest caution on this issue for the individuals effected and those who would face the added burden of paying for it. Admittedly, the traffic up and down I-94, and on US-41 warrents, and has warrented for a long time some higher level of public transit than was available in that corridor.
I absolutely agree. But the people of southeast Wisconsin have yet to give up their old ideas of tranportation.
I would love to be able to use mass transit (I drive I-94 daily to Milwaukee). The highway is three lanes in each direction, and rare is the time when one can safely use cruise control, or even stay at highway (65) speeds, due to the large amount of (mostly) truck traffic. Additionally, soon the highway is going to be rebuilt, so for years it is going to be a major PITA to drive it.
But a commuter train? Not likely unless the city/state would decided to create a real transit SYSTEM such that when the train arrived at the depot, there was a system of busses to get to the final destination; Milwaukee's businesses are too spread out, and the depot is too far from even much of the downtown business area. Sure, on a nice day a one-mile walk is nice....not so nice when the temperature is 35, the wind is off the lake at 25mph, and it is raining.
Perhaps when the Milwaukee commute gets more like the Chicago commute will voters decide to build such a system.
BTW, I drive to Milwaukee from Kenosha at 430 am, and I am always amazed at the number of vehicles heading south from Milwaukee towards Chicago every day. At 430am the road is packed!!
But there is hope, I think. The Hiawatha trains post ridership records every year. The trains used to be three coaches, now some of the trains are five coaches! If only there was one at 430am......
Atlanta is mentioned by several respondents as various example of how and not how to accomplish public heavy rail, and connecting bus routes. Atlanta got started building its MARTA system in about 1975-- It is still not a complete system.
Greater Atlanta comprises an area IIRC of approximately 37 seperate Counties and who knows how many Communities within that area. The planned OUTER PERIMETER BY-PASS was something like a circumfrential road of +- 280 miles. MARTA has been a political and social quagmire since its opening. Rather than going into a lot of annecdotal details; here is a link to Wikipedia whose piece on MARTA is a full and pretty accurate representation of all the gritty details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Atlanta_Rapid_Transit_Authority
Granted, Milwaukee is not a similar sized city to Atlanta, but shares some problems and politics with Hot Lanta.
zardoz wrote: Conference Committee votes "no" on the KRM.http://www.transitnow.org/project-status.htmlA moment of silence, please, for the death of a dumb idea.
Conference Committee votes "no" on the KRM.
http://www.transitnow.org/project-status.html
A moment of silence, please, for the death of a dumb idea.
Appropriate moment of silence ----
Wish someone would pick up this ball, and run with it.
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/prtquick.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/jea%20Q&A.doc
http://www.atsltd.co.uk/
Not everyone is in favor:
Less magic, more service if you skip rail fetish
June 12, 2007
We have a mayor and a county executive competing to spend millions on the biggest upgrade of Milwaukee transit since Frank Zeidler pulled the plug on streetcars.
And all some whiners can do is say: No deal unless there's metal under the wheels.
Given that rails are awfully costly metal, it's worth asking whether there's anything to what rail backers are arguing. They're saying that express bus plans by Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and County Executive Scott Walker are unsatisfactory substitutes for light rail. Only rail can make the system modern, they say; only rails can raise transit's 2.2% share of metro Milwaukee travel.
"These types of programs work really, really well," said one official with typically unwarranted certainty.
Well, yes, if the point is to use up money. The latest showcase, Minneapolis' 12-mile line, took $718 million to build - about $60 million a mile, and 80% over initial estimates. That city's second line is projected to cost more than $900 million. You could build either of Walker's or Barrett's entire express bus system for a mile of Minneapolis' mojo.
Which suggests why cities are looking at bus rapid transit, as planners call it. The Federal Transit Authority says dozens are running or planning such systems. If anything, that - not light rail - is the trend. Even rail cities, such as Los Angeles and Boston, have turned to express busways, says Dennis Hinebaugh of the National Center for Transit Research. "The riders they're picking up are new riders," he says.
Kansas City, similar to Milwaukee in size and spread, has run a bus rapid transit line for two years. It's the first of a network that planners mapped out after voters scotched several light rail plans. Transit ridership was up 29% in the first year over the regular buses that used to run the route. A quarter of the riders were new to transit, say officials.
In short, it's working, says Kite Singleton, an architect who was an activist for earlier Kansas City light rail plans. Voter rejection didn't dim his ardor, but visiting Curitiba, Brazil, a showcase of bus rapid transit, convinced him that rails weren't necessary.
If you make buses act like trains - fewer stops, reserved lanes, more frequent service, selling tickets at stations rather than making drivers fiddle with cash - people respond.
And it happens at far less cost, less than $1 million a mile if you use reserved lanes on streets, as Barrett and Walker would do. You even can get denser development along routes, as has happened in Curitiba. All you give up is an indefinable coolness factor.
"It's an aesthetic thing," says Singleton. "People like the idea of rail because it's smoother, it's cooler."
In other words, the extra $59 million a mile is to make the 95% of the population that doesn't ride the system feel their city's more hip. Yet express buses can imitate that with marketing: nicer vehicles, fancier stops, subway-style graphics, all vastly cheaper than rails. The money goes into service that passengers notice as they do a lot less waiting and the lights turn green when they approach.
Speed, in other words. "To the average rider, that's everything," says Hinebaugh. "Doesn't matter whether it's rail or not."
Rail doesn't get at what keeps people in cars: Of the roughly two dozen U.S. metropolises that have rail transit, all but three have seen transit's market share fall in the past two decades. Regular buses are slow, but light rail can be, too -
15 to 20 mph in Portland, Ore., and Minneapolis. You wait outside for light rail, as with regular buses. Rails don't cure any of this.
Done right, bus rapid transit can. Cities can afford to do it right. A lot of the preference for rail is psychological, says Hinebaugh: "It's like something magical will happen to the city if we put in light rail." Sure: Watch the dollars vanish.
You'd think, given how studied light rail has been here, its backers would offer less magic and more fact. But what do you expect from people saying modern transit should be based on a technology perfected by about 1936?
Instead, romance triumphs over reason. It's time to ask: You want transit or romance?
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=618960
colored highlights mine
June 6, 2007
A Milwaukee County Board committee on Wednesday endorsed board Chairman Lee Holloway's plan to study using $91.5 million in long-idle federal funds for express buses and for a regional commuter bus terminal.
But several supervisors - including some who voted for the plan - voiced reservations about a bus-only approach when other communities are turning to light rail or streetcars.
Meanwhile, city and county officials continued to search for agreement on how to pay for public transit. The board's Transportation, Public Works and Transit Committee shelved one proposal for a local transit tax, and the Common Council president said he would delay action on another transit tax plan to try to forge a city-county consensus.
Holloway's resolution calls for his plan to be considered by the Milwaukee Connector study committee, which is seeking a way to use the federal money to connect downtown attractions and nearby neighborhoods with public transit. That group is studying Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett's plan for a downtown streetcar loop and two express bus routes, and County Executive Scott Walker is pushing a plan for express buses only.
Supervisor Roger Quindel called Walker's opposition to rail transit "ludicrous." He and Supervisor John Weishan said buses alone could not revitalize the financially troubled Milwaukee County Transit System and attract riders who have other transportation choices.
But Supervisor James White, chairman of the transportation committee, said Barrett's plan did not consider how the streetcars' operating costs might take money from county buses. Holloway said his plan would require operating costs for the express buses and commuter bus depot to stay within the bus system budget unless additional money could be found.
In February, the committee delayed action on Mayo's original proposal to package a 0.25% sales tax with a 3% hotel tax. On Wednesday, he tried to change his plan to a 0.275% sales tax with no hotel tax, but the committee split 3-3 on that idea, then put the entire proposal on hold.
In response, council President Willie Hines Jr. postponed action scheduled for today on a council measure urging the state to let any city or county levy a sales tax of up to 0.5% to fund its transit systems or commuter rail lines. That would be packaged with support for the KRM Commuter Link rail line - which would connect Milwaukee with its southern suburbs, Racine and Kenosha - and for a $13-a-car rental car tax increase to pay for the KRM trains.
Last month, the council called for extending the KRM line through the city's north side, along the Glendale-Milwaukee border and through Brown Deer to the Milwaukee County-Ozaukee County line. The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority backed a study of the extension after city and county representatives said it could be the key to winning support for the rental car tax boost.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=616367
Way to go R's!!!!!
One less tax is always good news to me.
Especially one that is going to hit tourists on a good day and me when my truck is in the shop on a bad one.
The Legislature's Joint Finance Committee deadlocked Thursday on a funding mechanism for the proposed Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter rail link, rejecting a locally endorsed plan to boost a rental car fee by 650 percent.Rail backers said the KRM is far from dead, however, as several steps remain in the budget process in which lawmakers could agree on the local funding source needed to build and operate the $198 million rail line."We're going to have an elongated budget process here," said Assembly Minority Leader Jim Kreuser, D-Kenosha, "so I'm not getting too excited about it."State Sen. John Lehman, D-Racine, a Joint Finance member, floated the rental car increase motion Thursday as the committee scrutinized the state's 2007-09 transportation budget.Lehman's motion went down on a partisan 8-8 vote, effectively stripping it from the budget proposal Joint Finance will present to the full Senate and Assembly.Kreuser noted that the rental car fee increase - or any other KRM funding plan - could be added by the full Assembly or the Senate, or in a conference committee that will become involved if the two houses pass differing budget plans.Backed by the Southeastern Regional Transit Authority in January, the proposed rental car fee hike would increase the amount now being charged in Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee counties to $15 per rental. The current charge is $2.Fee increase backers say it would generate the amount needed to cover local operating and bonding costs for the train system, while taxing primarily out-of-area rental car consumers. As proposed, the bulk of the rail line would be paid for with federal funds.State Rep. Robin Vos, R-Racine, a Joint Finance member, is among those who have vociferously opposed the fee increase; he has said he believes the matter should go to a referendum.Despite the opposition to his motion, Lehman said he was encouraged to hear what he felt was bipartisan support for the concept of the rail line.The KRM would use existing rail bed to link Kenosha, Racine and Milwaukee, with other stops in Somers, Caledonia and several suburban Milwaukee communities. KRM trains would connect to Chicago-bound Metra trains in Kenosha and Waukegan, Ill."We're trying to keep it alive as much as we can," Lehman said.Kreuser said he felt the 8-8 vote was predictable in the evenly split Joint Finance Committee.If KRM is not dealt with in the Senate version of the budget, Kreuser said he expects it to come up in the conference committee. Kreuser conceded he does not expect a funding mechanism to pass in the Republican-controlled Assembly's version of the budget."I think the business communities are starting to rally and encourage people to move forward on this," Kreuser said. "So I think this is still in play - it's early."
http://www.kenoshanews.com/article_comments/view_comments.php?articleNum=1176615
How about a 25-cent surcharge on every six-pack of beer and let Wisconsin residents pay for their own train service?
They tried to tag a ten-cent tax (for the general fund) on a sixer in Illinois and you'da thunk World War III broke out. Ten cents!
PopZ
Amtrak runs from DC to Baltimore, yet there is a commuter line running in Maryland (MARC), same tracks, same stations. Amtrak runs through Northern Virginia, but there is commuter service there too (VRE). Amtrak is not set up to run commuter, though in some circumstances your Amtrak ticket will be honored on the commuter lines and vice versa.
Sticking it to the traveling public and business traveler is nothing new. Try renting a car in Atlanta. The tax Atlanta slaps on the car pretty much doubles the cost of the rental (thanks to the 1996 Olympics!). It is still cheaper than a cab ride to just about anywhere there though. One way cabride is about equal to a one day rental, including a full tank of gas.
Randy Stahl wrote:Funding would be simple , have Milwaukee's major league baseball team payfor it !
Last I heard, the Milwaukee Brewers have a hard enough time just trying to keep current on their payments for Miller Park!!
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
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