Flange greasers are a popular suggestion by folks watching the rail cams at Deshler. Trains using the transfers usually squeal their way around the curves - somewhat dependent on how heavy the cars are, and how wet the rail is from natural conditions.
Of course, the squealing they hear has little or nothing to do with the flanges and everything to do with the solid axles. On a sharp curve, one wheel will be moving faster or slower than the other, causing the tread to slide on the rail, which creates the squealing.
Loaded coil cars on the SW transfer there are the worst.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
mudchicken Are there any automatic greasers installed ON the curves themselves or are they always installed on the straight before the curve? They are installed on the straight in order to place the grease on the fillet and flange only. (1) Coverage is determined by local conditions. It's not a one size fits all solution. Lubricators are placed where the plunger and paddles will do the most good and allow the particular type of grease to do the most good (it's not supposed to get on top of the rail and should only be applied from the gage corner down on the rail.) Yes, see above. So why does the grease get on top of the rail you ask?The greaser places the grease in the proper spot. Now, what you have is grease placed on a spinning wheel. The spinning wheel tends to sling the grease off. In a straight line, the slung grease would tend to stay within the rails. However, when you get to a curve, the flange rubs againt the rail causing more grease to be flung and now the axis of the flinging grease intersects with the arc of the curving rail, so, the grease gets slung on top of the rail. It was very apparent from the cab of the unit that the ballast around the outside rail on curves was much greasier than the ballast under the inside rail and you could watch the darkness change sides going through esse curves.Once on top of the rail, it gets collected by the wheel tread and that is why the wheels... ...carry grease in both directions down the track, sometimes for half a mile or more...So true!!! (2) There is an art and science to making a lubricator work properly. If some of that grease is getting on top of the rail, it's either the wrong type of grease for the application or too much is being applied. The maintainer usually is checking how well it works with a goop gage and looking for metal flakes/ rail wear (steel dandruff). Earlier, there was mention of biodegradable lubricants. These did not work out. MoW would find a lot of metal flakes in all of the lubricant on the rail. (3) Many railroads also equip their hi-rail trucks with grease applicator(s) controlled in the cab of the truck during normal inspection patrols. They tried that once, maybe more. They wound up tying the entire line up one day because the applicator was out of alignment and placed a thin bead of oil right on top of the rail. Nobody could get traction, everyone stalled out on the mountain. The only way to get going again was to cut the units off from the train and slowly sand the rail well over to top of the grade, then slowly sand the rail again on the way back to the train and sand some more when starting. (4) For all the whining and complaining by the operating people, you do not want the alternative "dry" rail conditions with the lubricators turned-off. (Certain trainmasters and superintendents just don't get it, so the "whine and geez parties" continue. sand + grease = liquid abrasive sandpaper... No new shiny toys for them.)
Are there any automatic greasers installed ON the curves themselves or are they always installed on the straight before the curve? They are installed on the straight in order to place the grease on the fillet and flange only.
(1) Coverage is determined by local conditions. It's not a one size fits all solution. Lubricators are placed where the plunger and paddles will do the most good and allow the particular type of grease to do the most good (it's not supposed to get on top of the rail and should only be applied from the gage corner down on the rail.)
Yes, see above. So why does the grease get on top of the rail you ask?The greaser places the grease in the proper spot. Now, what you have is grease placed on a spinning wheel. The spinning wheel tends to sling the grease off. In a straight line, the slung grease would tend to stay within the rails. However, when you get to a curve, the flange rubs againt the rail causing more grease to be flung and now the axis of the flinging grease intersects with the arc of the curving rail, so, the grease gets slung on top of the rail. It was very apparent from the cab of the unit that the ballast around the outside rail on curves was much greasier than the ballast under the inside rail and you could watch the darkness change sides going through esse curves.Once on top of the rail, it gets collected by the wheel tread and that is why the wheels...
...carry grease in both directions down the track, sometimes for half a mile or more...So true!!!
(2) There is an art and science to making a lubricator work properly. If some of that grease is getting on top of the rail, it's either the wrong type of grease for the application or too much is being applied. The maintainer usually is checking how well it works with a goop gage and looking for metal flakes/ rail wear (steel dandruff).
Earlier, there was mention of biodegradable lubricants. These did not work out. MoW would find a lot of metal flakes in all of the lubricant on the rail.
(3) Many railroads also equip their hi-rail trucks with grease applicator(s) controlled in the cab of the truck during normal inspection patrols. They tried that once, maybe more. They wound up tying the entire line up one day because the applicator was out of alignment and placed a thin bead of oil right on top of the rail. Nobody could get traction, everyone stalled out on the mountain. The only way to get going again was to cut the units off from the train and slowly sand the rail well over to top of the grade, then slowly sand the rail again on the way back to the train and sand some more when starting.
(4) For all the whining and complaining by the operating people, you do not want the alternative "dry" rail conditions with the lubricators turned-off. (Certain trainmasters and superintendents just don't get it, so the "whine and geez parties" continue. sand + grease = liquid abrasive sandpaper... No new shiny toys for them.)
.
they still use them on my OSL we have a grease box at Tieska on track 1 it is here because the curve is sharp and trains go through here in heavy dynamics. #844 did not need to be greased by the guns in Gooding because the grease box lubed her up at Tieska but she had to be greased at Glenns Ferry because she had to go up Reverse which is the steepest grade on the OSL.
CN's locomotives still have truck-mounted flange lubricators, using sticks of graphite.
As far as I can tell they are being maintained.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
marxalot Boyd Anyone know if rail greasers are still used on curves to reduce friction? Or was it an experiment? Howdy, This is an old topic but I still need some information. Are there any automatic greasers installed ON the curves themselves or are they always installed on the straight before the curve? Trying to see if I can justify installing one on a model train layout but it would be easiest to install on the curve. Thanks for your time. Jim K
Boyd Anyone know if rail greasers are still used on curves to reduce friction? Or was it an experiment?
Howdy,
This is an old topic but I still need some information.
Are there any automatic greasers installed ON the curves themselves or are they always installed on the straight before the curve? Trying to see if I can justify installing one on a model train layout but it would be easiest to install on the curve. Thanks for your time.
Jim K
(1) Coverage is determined by local conditions. It's not a one size fits all solution. Lubricators are placed where the plunger and paddles will do the most good and allow the particular type of grease to do the most good (it's not supposed to get on top of the rail and should only be applied from the gage corner down on the rail.) The wheel flanges should be able to carry grease in both directions down the track, sometimes for half a mile or more...
(3) Many railroads also equip their hi-rail trucks with grease applicator(s) controlled in the cab of the truck during normal inspection patrols. Locomotives sometimes had lubricator equipment on-board, but that idea died quickly because Mechanical either would not bother maintaining them or there weren't any mechanical people around that even knew they were on board. (and of course they always replaced bad wheels and know what sharp flanges can do rather than sit there and not lift a finger.)
BoydAnyone know if rail greasers are still used on curves to reduce friction? Or was it an experiment?
Definatly so! The Railroads are running more and more trains per day as well as heavier car loads. Also they use greasers on straight tracks too. Grease is what helps save the railhead from over excessive wear from wheels wobbling back and forth and side to side down the track. The flanges on the wheels keep the wheels on the track but doesn't stop the wheels from free roaming. The wheels usually roam a little bit from the track being warped, lhaving loose ties, too far tie spacing, or a million other things. Greasers are more common in curves especially in mountainous regions where there are a lot of grades. The railroads also will turn the rails around "Transposed Track" to get more life out of the railheads. Which means that they take the guage side of the railhead and swap it with the field side. This process is done because the flanges will wear the guage or inside part of the railhead down faster then the outside. This is especially true in curves where you have a high and low side curve. The train will bear down more on the rail that is on the low side of the curve causing it to wear down faster then the high side. The greasers also help save the overall profile of the railhead which means that the rail doesn't have to be reshaped by railgrinders as often. The downside for me is it is harder for me to get as good of an ultrasound inspection for flaws within rails that have greasers. If you want a good example of greasers in action check out the Cajon or Tehachapi lines. In some spots the greasers are just a couple thousand feet apart!
The greasers work by the wheel flanges pushing down on a spring valve and as the valve is being depressed it spatters grease up in a spot between the wheel and flange. The grease will stay with a train for quite some time in regular cases such as on level tangent tracks. But in situations where there are a lot of grades and curves the greasers will be closer together. Also there are different formulas of grease the railroads use for different circumstances such as grades and tonnage.
There are many other greaser methods I have heard about but this is the most practical so far that has worked for the railroad. They are all solar powered and just require little routine maintenance and up keep.
CSX uses rail greasers in the Albany division, and everywhere else I expect. It's true, the tracks going through the mountain ARE very steep, and are also very twisty (to follow the course of the river, which is the path of lowest grade and of course the twists reduce the grade even more), so you get more grease on the steepest grades. Go figure.
When you mention flange lubricators, I'm not sure whether you are referring to the actual greasers on the tracks, or the graphite lubricators mounted on the locomotive truck. About a year ago, CSX installed these graphite rods on all road power. A device on the truck feeds a big stick of graphite lubricator onto the lead wheel of each truck. Each stick is about 1 foot and a half long (to start with), and it's like a giant pencil. Someone here mentioned graphite lube in the brake pads - that I haven't heard about, just these new truck-mounted lube sticks. The new road power, with the efficient engines, have not been equipped with steerable trucks like earlier units, so these wheel lubricators are probably more needed than before.
I know of several folks, all now dead, that did such things to the Union Pacific on a grade where they ran trains only with full tonnage. Until MofW cleaned the track, they couldn't get up the hill.
On the railroads that I have worked for, rail lubricators were used liberally, but the control of them was strict. They had to be adjusted so that there was no waste. They were to apply a very thin line of lubricant only where the flang would run and not the wheel, and they were to be used only on the outside rail of the curve. Woe to the maintainer should an engineman complain about slipping after passing a lubricator.
One poster above mentioned the cost of replacing worn rail. $$$$$$$$$$$$ And then there is also locomotive wheels. Dry rail on the sharper curves makes for sharp flanges real quick on locomotives. Again, $$$$$$$$$$$$$
The MBTA uses them on the Green Line in the tunnels where the curves are tight, and I know there's an active one up at Lowell Junction in Andover. When I lived up there, I used to bike to the junction to watch the trains.
John
Have fun with your trains
Here is a commercially available greaser.
http://www.tranergy.com/Switch_Enhancer.html?gclid=CPOs-fGl-IkCFRTWJAodrmArVg
underworld
Rail greasers are used on Amtrak on the New Division. Most greaser pumps are battery powered and the battery is charged by solar a panel. As a retired signal mainteiner I can tell you they make a mess if instecting track you step in the grease. Can't get the damn stuff off
Yes, on CTA and Metra lines around Chicago.
From the responses you see grease on rails isn't a very satisfactory solution.
Biodegradeable lubricants and water offer "greener" solutions; but they still affect traction and braking.
More universal use of radial trucks would help for all but the sharpest curves. As with everything else, there is a cost trade-off.
Conversely no one mentioned the cost of replacing worn rails and wheels.
HarveyK400
PigFarmer1,no harm no foul.Just a little humor on my part .
It's just funny how the greasers are in the most ,how to say,well just the worst place to put them sometimes.And why soo many?Is there an FRA recommendation?
I couldn't imagine getting around those greasers when I can see that the grease looks like it gets slung 20+ feet everywhere .
Something I've noticed on some of the greasers here on the Pocahontas Division is solar panels.The only thing I can guess is to keep the grease warm so it won't get too thick .?
Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."
Just thought I'd add in on this. Greasers are also still used in Ontario, on Toronto's Subway System especially on some of there tighter turns. However I have also noticed that in some area's automatic greasers are no longer used, and a more environmentally friendly means of quieting the cars as they go through tight turns is being employed. In one area that I have personally seen, a constant spray of water is sprayed on the rail which acts in a similar maner as the grease would to help deaden the ear pearcing sounds. Additionally the water is controlled by a sensor unit that turns the water on and off based on weather and track conditions. Thus saving the amount of water used.
I don't know how widely used it is on the TTC, however I have seen it used in atleast one location on both the street car system and the subway system in Toronto. I realize that this is not a practicable solution in all locations, but it is a unique one, I thought I would pass along.
PigFarmer1 wrote: mackb4 wrote: I've always thought that the greasers were the MoW's,way,of getting sometype of revenge on the T&E crews. And why are they always on a hill right where you need the traction the most . And I think the signals that's places in curves,or hard to see places, was sometype of conspiracy from the signal maintainers... Greasers are revenge from MoW? Yeah, right. I don't see you guys out mucking in that stuff. Try knocking off anchors and pulling spikes in that stuff and then come back and tell me how we're using it to get revenge on you guys.
mackb4 wrote: I've always thought that the greasers were the MoW's,way,of getting sometype of revenge on the T&E crews. And why are they always on a hill right where you need the traction the most . And I think the signals that's places in curves,or hard to see places, was sometype of conspiracy from the signal maintainers...
I've always thought that the greasers were the MoW's,way,of getting sometype of revenge on the T&E crews.
And why are they always on a hill right where you need the traction the most .
And I think the signals that's places in curves,or hard to see places, was sometype of conspiracy from the signal maintainers...
I want to apologize for attitude in my earlier post. The whole grease thing struck a nerve because we just relayed an S curve in a yard and at least half that thing was greased. We were literally on our hands and knees digging through grease with spikes to get to the anchors. Not fun. Again, I sincerely aopolgize. I would take it back if I could, but I couldn't delete the post because someone quoted it.
Not to mention the safety issue: the lubricants are slippery and it behooves one to be careful. However, when the superintendent is on your then safety falls, just as you will and you wish your boss would, too!
Here in Brazil some railroads use grease boxes, like EFVM, others use men with a brush to lubrificate the curves. Mere in my town FCA have a employee only to do this job.
pedro
I also wonder about the pool of grease laying around. What a mess! What a waste! And I'll bet that a lot of grease is getting on places that don't need it.
On another thread, I posted a picture of the flange greaser that is used on San Jose's light rail system. There is an inner rail on each side, and while the area between the two rails is greasy, that is the extent of it. No pools of grease making a mess of the ballast.
I would think that you get what you pay for. Being a metropolitan area, the concept of having a pool of grease just waiting for some kid to play around it was probably unappealing. So I suspect that a more expensive delivery system is being used than what a railroad out in the boondocks would need to use.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Here are the rail greasers at Gallitzin, PA, just west of the tunnels and at the high point of the Allegheny Ridge on the NS -- former Pennsy. There are a lot of curves between this point and Altoona -- the Horseshoe Curve among them. I was told by an NS employee that they use soybean oil or something along biodegradable lines.
Here are the rail greasers at Gallitzin, PA, just west of the tunnels and at the high point of the Allegheny Ridge on the NS -- former Pennsy. There are a lot of curves between this point and Altoona -- the Horseshoe Curve among them.
I was told by an NS employee that they use soybean oil or something along biodegradable lines.
The railroads have gone grease crazy. In addition to more and more lineside greasers near the curves we also find portable greasers installed in the hy-rail trucks the asst roadmasters ride in to patrol the tracks. These greasers have lines to apply grease to the inside of the rail when the flanges contact the rail as well as a pair of lines to apply grease to the tops of the rail where the locomotives gain traction for the pulls up the hills. Now consider the flange lubricators on the locomotives and the new brake shoes on the locos which have graphite or other lube products inserted into the friction components of the brake shoe to apply lubrication to the flange of the wheels.
Yes, it is just grease, grease, grease everywhere except on the power switches where more is needed. Now add the increasing horsepower per axle and increased dynamic braking capacities of the newer units and sometimes it is like ice skating along the railroad when you are trying to take a heavy train with about 0.6 hp/ton up a long curving grade.
Greaser are still used.
In territory with grades greasers are a double edged sword. While their use reduces the friction of the train being pulled over the trackage, it also reduces the traction of the locomotive for a period of time, generally that period of time when the train needs the traction from the engines the most.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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