CN - PLYMOUTH SUB

[wcfan4ever]

Well this is the first time I have ever heard in Wisconsin of two railroads trying to get the same line! This is great from my point of view but a railroads worst nightmare.

[mikeyuhas]

Seems odd to reply to myself, but anyway...

QUOTE: Originally posted by mikeyuhas


The Pioneer people filed a notice of intent to make an offer of financial assistance, but never followed through.

Looking over the STB website at lunch today (bleary, cloudy weather, so I didn't leave the office to see if I could get another winning shot in the enormously popular "Trackside with Mike and Erik" series), I note the "Pioneer people" (their Decatur Junction Railway subsidiary) have filed a motion for extension of time to file their Offer of Financial Assistance, and CN/WC and WSOR have filed replies opposing the motion.

I wish Court TV was this exciting.

[wcfan4ever]

Great Picture! One of the best night shots of a WC that I have ever seen!

Long live the Plymouth Sub! Hopefully the WSOR gets the line, then moves in for Hilbert and then onto Manitowoc. May never happen as here in Manitowoc, we have a very profitable line with Anhieser Busch, Weyerhauser and a power plant that is currently getting a new boiler.

[jeaton]

Mike
Thanks for the update and insight on that hearing.

Nice photo. You should offer it to Eric as picture of the day. I think it is good enough to post without any "incentive". (Bergie, Just kidding).

Jay

[mikeyuhas]

It's been fun watching this whole thing develop over the past few months. The STB's public hearing in Random Lake in August was well-attended by shippers and other people who wanted to see service on the line preserved. There was a lot of anti-CN sentiment in the room. No one spoke in favor of the abandonment. And it was very unusual that the STB even ventured this far out of Washington. I asked the lead STB attorney how often they did public hearings like this. The answer was "never!" But there had been an organized opposition, including local elected officials, so STB took the unusual step.

The Pioneer people filed a notice of intent to make an offer of financial assistance, but never followed through.

WSOR/WisDOT and CN have until November 26 to set terms for the line sale or ask for STB intervention. Maybe there will be some movement by the end of the year, but for now, CN is serving the customers between Saukville and Kiel.

Here's a shot of CN's train awaiting a fresh crew in Saukville last night:



Cheers,
Mike

[jwinter]

Governor Doyle OKs purchase of rail line by state

Segment between Saukville and Kiel

Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle has approved the purchase of a 37-mile segment of railroad that runs through Sheboygan County between Saukville and Kiel.

Doyle said he has directed the Wisconsin Department of Transportation to being steps to buy the rail line from Wisconsin Central Ltd. The line, according to documents, is valued at about $2.1 million.

Doyle said he was approving the purchase to preserve freight rail service and support economic development.

The state transportation agency, in conjunction with Wisconsin and Southern Railroad Co. has submitted an offer of financial assistance to the federal Surface Transportation Board to buy the segment.

“This rail corridor is important to the economic growth of businesses and communities throughout the region,” Doyle said.

The state DOT conducted an economic impact analysis that indicates the proposed abandonment could diminish job recruitment and retention efforts of economic development organizations and municipalities along the corridor, including Fredonia, Random Lake, Adell, Waldo, Plymouth, and Elkhart Lake.

Key findings of the analysis include:

n The seven businesses currently using rail service along the corridor reported their shipping costs would rise by $210,690 per year if they had to divert their freight to another mode of transportation.

n These seven businesses currently support 145 jobs with an estimated annual payroll of $5.8 million. Total personal income impact of these businesses is $9.7 million.

“The purchase will continue the state’s strong commitment to freight rail service throughout the state,” Doyle said.

On Oct. 18, the Surface Transportation Board approved the Wisconsin Central Ltd.’s application to abandon the rail line. The federal transportation board now has five days to review the financial status of the DOT and Wisconsin Southern before purchase negotiations can begin.

“During recent public meetings, numerous businesses, individuals, and elected officials in Ozaukee, Sheboygan, and Manitowoc counties expressed concerns about the potential economic consequences of losing this important transportation link,” said DOT Secretary Frank Busalacchi.

“Through our partnership with Wisconsin and Southern Railroad, we are working hard to preserve this service,” he said.

Canadian National Railway, which owns Wisconsin Central, originally filed an application to abandon the rail line on June 30.

The DOT and Wisconsin Southern would use the state’s Freight Railroad Preservation Program, which provides grants to purchase abandoned rail lines in an effort to continue freight service, to buy the line.

The state transportation agency currently oversees about 600 miles of state-owned track leased to private railroads. In documents filed with the STB, Canadian National listed the value of the 37-mile rail segment at $2.1 million.

[fuzzybroken]

Well, here's the latest on the Plymouth line (OFA from WisDOT and WSOR):
http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readingroom.nsf/UNID/BE6782D4571D01FA85256F3F0063F6D5/$file/35246.htm

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[wcfan4ever]

Now there is talk about WSOR and Pioneer wanting the line that has just created a battle! WSOR says they would be better to serve the customers being local but Pioneer says they want to expand! What is going to happen next?

[wcfan4ever]

Here is the link:
http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readingroom.nsf/dailyreleases

And here is the link to the newspaper article about Pioneer Railcorp:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/oct04/267719.asp

[wcfan4ever]

The STB approved the abondonment of the Plymouth Sub on 10/18/04. There are conditions for it...and currently the Pioneer Railcorp is looking into it. They might be taking over the line very shortly! I will try to get a link posted shortly.

[wcfan4ever]

I would sure like to know. The line sparked the Manitowoc Newspaper to print stories about the depots along the line and how they brought back so many memories. I will continue to try and find out what was said.

[Anonymous]

[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)] Supposedly there was a hearing involving abandonment of the Plymouth Sub today( 8/13/04). Anybody hear anything on how it went? [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

[wcfan4ever]

Yeah, but what are the chances of UP giving up the line to anyone wheather its leasing or selling it. They coal is on that line, and soon to be in Manitowoc too. I'm sure UP would want it just for that, correct?

I've seen the Suburban in Manitowoc before. It made me wonder back then, but as always, nothing happened. I don't count on it happening. It would be nice to see UP and WSOR work together to take over remaining CN lines though in the area. I hate CN!

[rvos1979]

Gentlemen:

I work for the WSOR, this is the latest I know.
WSOR tried to get CN to lease both the Plymouth and West Bend subs (read: CN owns track, WSOR does operations) but was flatly refused by CN. CN now wants to abandon Saukville-Kiel portion of line. WSOR, with state of Wisconsin, now wants to purchase same trackage, UP Kohler Sub, and Lease UP line to Sheboygan.

Suburban with WSOR plates is President of WSOR, (name withheld to protect innocent/guilty, depending on your take of things), most likely on inspection trip. Possible that President now has Hummer H2, not sure. Heard lots of talk that President visited most of UP line to Sheboygan, but so far just talk.

That's about all that I know at this point.

Randy Vos
WSOR Engineer

[Anonymous]

[^][^][^][:D] August 5th the state of Wisconsin and Division Engineer Greg Guthrie ran an inspection trip over the Plymouth Sub. I think that this lends some credence to the rumors of the WSOR taking over this line. Also the Quad Graphics train is in Kiel for the weekend account the PGA tour stops on the Lakeshore this weekend. [^][^][:D]

[wcfan4ever]

Correct, the CN wants to abandon the line between Keil and Saukville. They have already filed for it too. If CN succeds in doing this and tearing out the line, there will be a loss of business throughout the area. I do hope WSOR at least gets this line and tries the expand the products being delivered on the line.

[cprs8622]

I live near the plymouth sub and I was told that they want to abandon some place north of saukville but keep the southern part of it that goes into Milwaukee. He got his information from the news paper.

[wcfan4ever]

Where did you hear the Manitowoc Sub was for sale? It's not...there has been talk but nothing set in stone. WSOR once you look at it would not stand a chance in Manitowoc, rather Union Pacific I now think would snag the line because of the Power Plant and Anheiser-Busch. I'm now beginning to think CN will not sell the line anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anything is better than seeing a line torn out. With the manitowoc sub up for sale WSOR could make some easy ca***aking care of Anheiser-Busch and Manitowoc Public Utilities without a whole lot of work. Factor in all the Menasha local industry work and it becomes a very lucrative deal. Too bad I can't afford to buy it myself. [bow][bow][bow]

[fuzzybroken]

I think that it only makes sense for WSOR to get the Plymouth and West Bend Subs, since WSOR is their connection to the rest of CNWC!!! I don't think CN (or just about any other Class 1, for that matter) really wants a little industrial track to have to switch, so let WSOR buy it, improve traffic on it, and make it a huge blazing success!!! (well, ok, that might be a little wishful thinking...) Heck, even C&NW had poor small-customer service, that's why WC ended up with so much of their Wisconsin trackage and became a huge success! I think it would be great if WSOR could do the same.

[2c],
-Mark Hintz
Milwaukee, WI
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[wcfan4ever]

Although the line is not very active, only 200 carloads a year, it would be great to see WSOR expand in the state and continue service on the line. Anything to push CN further away and let them have less track. The customers deserve better. Maybe someday they will reach Manitowoc but first have to get the line between Neenah and Manitowoc which is a very profitable line with around 30-50 cars a day...mostly for Budweiser.

[Randy Stahl]

The news papers state that the CN will petition the STB for permission to abandon and remove the line from Saukville to Kiel. There is considerable opposition from online shippers who are stating that the CN has provided poor service. The asking price for this 34 miles fof RR is 2 million dollars, the WSOR has expressed on interest in operating this line if the state of Wisconsin purchases it and leases it to WSOR. A hearing is sceduled in late June. The STB website will have further details.
Randy Stahl

[Anonymous]

Hawks05:

Check this page out - it has good info on the WC in the Twin Cities:

http://www.skypoint.com/~n0kfb/homepage/tc_rails/tc_rail1.htm

[wcfan4ever]

Big News! This morning, I saw a WSOR red suburban with "WSOR" plates driving into Manitowoc coming off the highway. One only wonders now whats going on. Too bad I couldn't follow him, I had to get to school.

Dave
Manitowoc, WI

[wcfan4ever]

It would be great to see UP or WSOR in Manitowoc. I think WSOR would be a more likely canidate if anything was going to happen to those lines. I know for a fact the only reason WC tore out the line was to prevent UP from buying it. It was almost all complete and WC took it all away from them. Chances of UP putting the line back in is
about 1%. Too much work for them, that would take a while to turn into profit.

Dave
Manitowoc, WI

[Anonymous]

Recently have been hearing rumors that the Wisconsin Southern and CN have been discussing terms for the Plymouth and Manitowoc subs. Possibly including the West Bend sub as well. Will have to wait and see what develops.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for your replies. My biggest fear for this line is that it will be torn up and turned into a rails-to-trails route. I've lived next to or close to this line my entire life. I can remember waving to THE MILWAUKEE ROAD passenger trains as they'd pass through town when I was a child. Oh well, at least I still have the memories. HEY,,,,,ANYONE OUT THERE WANT TO START-UP A DINNERTRAIN ????? THE SCENERY AROUND HERE IS BEAUTIFUL !

[wcfan4ever]

The north-south CN line still does end up in Hilbert. The tracks end shorltly after the diamond to the north and is used for boxcar storage.

Dave
Manitowoc, WI

[Hawks05]

sweet. i'll look for it this weekend. i have probably the november issue of both MR and Trains.