We're in trouble - - Need HELP ! ! ! !

[Anonymous]

[:(] Yersterday in my Sunday paper came an advertising segment . It was from a large children's toy retailer -" Toy's - R - Us" . I don't know if all you are familiar with them ? Around the Chicagoland area & towards the East coast , they're pretty big . Well , as I thumbed through this ad booklet it HIT me - "NO TRAINS " . . . . . . . for kids ! The only thing in the entire catalog was one set of " Thomas the Tank Engine " . If we can't get the youth of America involved with our hobby , we are going to be in BIG TROUBLE ! As time progresses with fewer & fewer participants- we all age , there will be less available for the rest . It will become un-profitable for individuals / companies to expend the necessary monies to move this hobby forward . I'm not a rocket scientist ( just a civil engineer ) , so I need some help . I know about the "WORLD'S GREATEST HOBBY " campaign , but its visability , at least in my area , has not been significant . We have to get out & beat the drums ! " LET'S GO "-- . . . . . .. Please Advise , - Phil [8D] [8D]

[Modelcar]

.....That is sad. Remember many years ago as a youngster there was nothing more important than the new Lionel or American Flyer, etc....Christmas catalogs...!! All kinds of electric trains with all kinds of accessories and related items. Pages and pages of the stuff....and in color too for the most part. What has happened to the demand. Is it changing that much...From full catalogs to none of the above items in any catalog anymore....Guess so.

[Anonymous]

Phil [:)]

I don't think there is that much of a lack of kids or teens being interested in trains. There may be a lack of store like Toys R Us carrying trains but the speciality stores do (the mom and pop types I mean).

We have a GREAT bunch of teens here in the forums. I won't name them because I would overlook one and I wouldn't want to hurt any of their feelings. Some are really e-bay warriors too. I know one who makes alot of commando raids and bring home the booty (cabooses, engines, track, you name it) He is very wise in his collecting and advises people in the forum about what they have and how much it is worth. Others are very good at photography. Some are experts on Alcos and many just enjoy railfanning period.

After reading this post some of them might introduce themselves to you. They might also let you know where they get their trains, etc. So don't be too downhearted, the teens are here and there are more of them than you think. They might just surprise you with their knowlege and skill.

So cheer up, things are not as bad as they seem. [:)]

[Mookie]

Opinion over here in this corner.....Don't you think the trains craze for kids has been replaced by video games? Which has more sound, more action, crashes better and after watching an advertisement on tv for one - kills more people? Ugh. Let's hope this phase goes away and kids go back to trains! But I am not betting the medicare on it!

Mookie

[JoeKoh]

can remember liking trains since I was very young.Matt is just starting out but he is catching on fast.Now ask yourself what is more useful?learning carpentry,electrical wiring,computer programing and going outside learning geography mapreading or sitting on your butt playing video games.the trick is that they are learning with out knowing they are learning and getting their hands dirty which kids like to do.and mookie I wouldn't bet anything with your medicare my mom has it and there isn't too much left!
stay safe
Joe

[Modelcar]

...That's right on the Medicare....one better have a supplement to go with it.

[bnsfkline]

Heh, as I am struggling up hill in my MSTS train, I want to tell you all that the Toys R us around me has a great selection of ATHEARN kits and Bachman train sets.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfkline

Heh, as I am struggling up hill in my MSTS train, I want to tell you all that the Toys R us around me has a great selection of ATHEARN kits and Bachman train sets.

I think that sums it up right there. For the price on one basic Athearn HO locomotive, I can get instant gratification of a complete world of trains in a smaller box, only requires a Pentium III or better. I don't have to fuss with building the model or finding a place to run it or worry about my friends thinking I'm a geek. I don't even have to use my imagination to wonder what it would be like to be sitting in the driver's seat as it runs. Its all done for me. And when I get bored with it, I turn it off and put it on a shelf. Models are becoming more expensive and you don't even get to put them together anymore. Railroads aren't interested in enthusiasts, but profits and safety (and rightly so).

Imagination...for the most part gone. Technology has replaced it. When we grew up playing cops and robbers or army or whatever, we had to imagine the horde of germans coming over the hill.......these days they don't. It's provided for them. What we see here, in this forum are some teens that aren't average, that can function beyond the realm of the computer screen and video games. Good on them.

I would liken whats going on in "the worlds greatest hobby" to what has happened to scouting (girl and boy). Its not about camping and learning how to do stuff anymore. Its about which troop can seel the most stuff, get the most badges (regardless of what they did to do them) and a couple of hours of cheap child care.

This issue is a lot deeper than trains.

[Anonymous]

I did a post on Model Railroader forum called "The kids are here". I too used to think with the nay sayers that we were not getting the young people involved with the hobby, but check the forums. Not only do we have the young folk but they are also participating in these forums asking intelligent questions but getting first hand knowledge from the actual train people, like Ed and others, but are also starting layouts and getting help on that too. I don't think we really have to worry on that score. Model Railroading and love of trains is alive and well.

[wallyworld]

Remember when slot cars were thought to have been the doom of model railroading?
I agree that the hobby will survive only in a much smaller market share. The reality behind all of this is that you can't escape the fact that most of us in the hobby were exposed to trains in a more romantic era when they had a more direct connection to our lives. We went from a plentitude of individual roads each with their own distinctive "flavor" to a handful of corporate monoliths with names like CSX. My children and grandchildren like trains but grow bored easily with them. Not me. That is because there were cabooses in my time where you waited for a train to pass to get a wave back from the conductor, or hung out at the local depot, or really wanted to drive that big locomotive myself. There was no cable tv, cyberspace, space travel, etc. Your imagination was driven by what you experienced directly not what some nameless designer provided you in a videogame. It's really a shame.

[edblysard]

Not real sure we should target the kids as much as the parents.
After all, who buys the games and the TV for the kids in the first place?
while little Joe and Josie are rotting their brains in front of the TV or with the Video game, where are Mom and Dad?
You guessed it, right in front of the computer.
Its just easier for parents to let their kids amuse themselves with the junk, than become activly involved in their childrens "play" time.
I learned every single bit of carpentry and all of my wood working skills in my Dads woodshop, and not one bit of it from TV, because my Dad felt it was a good thing to teach me these skills, and it kept him involved in what I was doing and what I was up too.
I would bet the younger posters here have parents who activly encourage them to do what they do.
So, from my point of view, I think we should educate the parents first, then target the kids.
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

[dharmon]

I went away, came back and reread what I wrote. Imagine that[:)]

Then I thought, probably every generation has said the same thing. When I was kid and Pong came out...heh, heh....our parents were saying the same thing. As much as I malign computer and video games......these are the building blocks of their future. Just as tinker toys and lego were the building blocks of mine. The mechanical / analog skills that got me through are being replaced by the digital ones that will get them through.

I continue to strive for balance in my kids lives.......school, sports, music, computer, etc. I want my son to be able to replace a bad outlet or safely use a table saw, but he needs to know how to navigate the internet also. I can't even work on todays autos anymore, so maybe that he can't rebuild a careburator isn't important.

Maybe computer simulation is going to replace this hobby, maybe not. Just as there are a few that get the bug and want to do something more....build a kit or something.

[edblysard]

I agree with you Dan, didnt mean that the current technology should be ignored in favor of "old" skills, but that parents should become involved in what their kids are doing, just like you do.
Sure, kids are going to need to know how a computer works, and how to make it work for them, but ask Mookie what my ten year old daughter can also do with a wood lathe.
Some skills should be learned, just because they are fun, and because no one else seems to want to keep them alive.
No, I doubt anyone of us who dont turn wrenches for a living will ever figure out our automobiles anymore, in fact, most dont have a carb in them at all!
But knowing how one works can help you know when the guys who do fix cars for a living are working you over!
But, like you said, keeping involved with what your kids do is the key.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Greetings,

I have posted a similar topic on the MR forum. Check it out.

It would be great to see more trains in stores.

I know I enjoyed it as a kid.

I know Toys R Us and Michaels here in Houston used to sell trains.

They should bring it back in my opinion.

Mark in Texas

[ironhorseman]

Getting back to the Toys R Us dealy-- I've noticed around my area they've phased out trains completely. All they have now is baby clothes and baby toys [xx(] Ugh! You can't even get plastic model kits there anymore. No space ships, no airplanes, no ships, no helicopters, but they have only one kind of hot rod. You can't by paint or accessories there anymore.

Well, I say screw Toys R Us!

There's always Hobby Lobby, although they're not as cheap.

But as for the hobby it's not in trouble. They tried to do the same thing over at model railroader only it took the guy pages and pages to get the point across. Basically it was doom and gloom and the hobby is done.

When the retailers realize people are not buying their expensive products they'll have lower their prices. However, there are people out there who will buy these products no matter the price and therefore that justifies the high prices.

I get a thingy in the mail from Walthers every season about stuff on sale and it's good stuff not the inferior stuff. I don't know how I got on their mailing list, probably got my name off my Model Railroader subscription.

The Great American Train Show is a great place to get cheap stuff. You can get all kinds of neat junk. I buy cheap cheap railcars and practice weathering techniques. I aslo buy already weathered stuff to see how others do it.

I have Microsoft Trainsim and Railroad Tycoon but I look at these items as supplemental materials, not replacements for modeling. I'm completely lost when it comes to building a virtual world and always screw something up.

I'd rather have an actual model railroad because it's real, it's tangible, and I have more control over it. No matter how many model cities and landscapes I build in a computer world all those buildings and trees are identical. In a real model railroad I can give my buildings character.

The thing that I don't like are those people who don't understand or won't take no for an answer when they ask if I'm into model railroading and I say not anymore. Or like the local club that makes sure you take their application everytime you visit. I've got stuff in boxes but no where to put, no time to set it up and take care of it, and no money to buy models for a layout that don't exist. You wouldn't get a dog if you don't intend to walk it, feed it, and care for it would you? Same way with a model railroad: it needs to be cared for. For now they're safe in their packaging from dust, dogs, and intruding fingers of intruders who intrude on my stuff (treat my models like toys will they? I'll show them! [:(!])

Anyway, in conclusion, support you local hobby stores. [:)]

[Puckdropper]

I don't feel one bit of remorse buying computer stuff online. Most computer places are junk or only interested in the new stuff. However, hobby shops are different. I know I need them, just to look around, to buy some paints, kits, etc... I'll buy *some* train stuff online, but very little.

To those of you who are involved with a historical society or club or organization putting on a show, be careful how you address people. I have a friend who was insulted when she went to a show with her dad (big age difference) and was thought to be his wife. She has not gone to another show. (For completeness of the story, she has had opportunities... I asked about one a month or so ago.)

[bigboy4024]

hey i am 19 and i am in the prosses of putting in a märklin z gauge in a coffe tabil (as soon as i get back to the states) i am really good at photography but i want to join a local m. r. r. club near my home in the states. i also work on a 0-6-0 switcher 353 at Rollag minnesota. and have my boilers licence to opperate steam of any form. i am in the process of getting some of my freinds into trains and i am havin good luck. when 261 rolls through my home town i usualy go to a freinds olong the tracks and 15 of us wach her go buy or chase or just to rail fan in general. if it haddent of been for me they probibuly never be a rail fan. but i suppose it is lunch time here in germany big boy

[joseph2]

Perhaps children don't want trains because trains aren't as important now as they were when we were young.Also toys have to be completly safe.Toys are so BORING now.No Sears Christmas catalog,no guns,no chemistry sets,Erector sets, toy soldiers or BB guns.If a modern day Postmaster would read the letter I wrote to Santa Claus back in 1962 he would be so shocked he would call the FBI.

[Anonymous]

The strange thing for me was, none of my boys showed any interest in my layouts but just let any of their sons visit Grampa and trains are flying. My oldest grandson is actively helping me build my new HO layout. I think if we each only reach one or two youngsters, the hobby will survive.

[adrianspeeder]

I am 17, and consider myself pretty handy. I know my way around a wood shop and a metal shop, can fix a lot of things, and generally can figure things out. I do all the work on my trucks and mowers to save money and handle most of the maintinence around the house. Where did I learn this, in front of a TV? no. in front of a computer? no. Playing video games? no. I learned by doing. My grandfather showed me basic electrical, plumbing, woodworking, and auto care when i was in elementry school. I was asking my dad for tools when others were getting toys. I spent a whole summer running wires into electrical boxes on the garage floor making circuits found in houses (I wish i had a pic of it), when other kids were playing play station when it came out. I now spend my study hall time in the wood shop when all the other kids run to the fancy computer lab to "work".
This does not bother me because when i go into electrical engineering, the field will be wide open because a majority will waste four years of college to be unimployed computer engineers. Computers arn't bad, maybe just overused.

"long live the handyman"

Adrianspeeder

[bnsfkline]

-=yawning while speaking=- Too early

[Anonymous]

Adrian [:D] [8D] [:p] [}:)] [;)]

I could use a little help around the house, ya available? lol Remember to bring the SSL as the leaves are falling and I like to mow them and not rack them. lol

Duchess would love another arm to chew on. Mine is getting kinda tender. [B)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Adrian [:D] [8D] [:p] [}:)] [;)]

I could use a little help around the house, ya available? lol Remember to bring the SSL as the leaves are falling and I like to mow them and not rack them. lol

Duchess would love another arm to chew on. Mine is getting kinda tender. [B)]

[;)] Jim - you must treat leaves as I do dust on furniture - it is a protector, so you must leave them and it there!

Mookie

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

. I now spend my study hall time in the wood shop when all the other kids run to the fancy computer lab to "work".

You have a wood shop at your school? I haven't seen a school with a shop (wood, metal, auto) in years. That's great![:)] Used to be that high schools would have an auto shop class and fix up donated or impounded cars and sell them to get more stuff for the shop.

[adrianspeeder]

Wood shop is in the building. Metal shop is gone this year. This long and sad story started when the new "industrial arts" department head decided that he wanted a new computer based shop course in "technology." Trouble is, building a new addition to the school to accomidate the new class costs money. So he took a look at what room could be sacraficed, and it turned out that student demand for the metal shop course had been decreasing in the last 2 years, so it would get the ax.
I, along with the metal shop teacher, went to school board meetings to fight the change, but money was stacked against us.
It seemed that thousands of dollars in new equipment was ordered for the new class, and the district wouldn't stop something that it already spent money on. The kicker is that even though we are a quarter of the way into the school year, the equipment has yet to arrive!
My tax dollars at work

Adrianspeeder

[JoeKoh]

A local school here had a levy Fail at the election polls.All extra activities are gone ans there are for sale signs on the busses.Ouch!
stay safe
Joe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

A local school here had a levy Fail at the election polls.All extra activities are gone ans there are for sale signs on the busses.Ouch!
stay safe
Joe

[:(]Ouch. They have cut back alot here also. Too bad, a balanced education is better in my opinion...music, technical, sports and schoolwork.

But kids today do have it better than we did...having to walk 5 miles up hill both ways through all that snow in the morning and desert heat in the afternoon. [:)]

[Puckdropper]

I got out just in time!!!

Do sports tend to be self-sufficient? I know you have to pay to get in (unless you're playing in the game or band)...

[daveklepper]

Please refer to Mark Hemphill's editorial in the December issue of Trains. He defined the problem . EVERYONE has to get behind the restoration of comprehensive and well-run intercity passenger service . It is a must. The couple of billions are tiny compared to what the Government wants to waste on fuel-cell research (when the Japs and GM itself with the hybrid buses for Seattle- just so they can scrap the overhead trolleybus wires- has proved an energy independent USA is possible without any fuel-cell Hydrogen conversion . Every form of transportation, except freight railroading is subsidized in the USA today and the railroad industry needs the PR and personal contact of really fine passenger service. Dave Klepper

[dharmon]

So too sum it all up........

The Toys R Us catalog needs to have a coast to coast High Speed Rail set run by well rounded teenage ranfans and modelers [:)].