It's against my better judgement to participate in this again, but how many of you spend 10 hours a day at a RR crossing? Very few I'll bet. I'm far more of an expert on this than most experts, wink wink.
And I can tell you from watching this busy 5 lane crossing, that the blowing of the horns, the frequency with which they are blown, and the VOLUME of the horns as absolutely nothing to do with grade crossing accidents.
You can make the horns even louder if you want, but....
1. People are anti-authoritarian. They don't stop at red lights, they don't stop at stop signs, and they don't stop at crossing gates. It's got nothing to do with how loud the horn is, they do not want to be told that they have to stop.
2. People ARE distracted. You've done stupid things while you were driving. We all have. Sometimes nothing happens, sometimes a collision happens, and sometimes you get nailed by a train.
3. People insist they are in a hurry. If "they" could do a campaign where it was shown that most waits at a crossing are 90 seconds or less, and then ask if your life is worth 90 seconds, that might help. Like someone else posted above, a lot more education would help.
4. The Railroad sometimes doesn't do anything to help it's case.
I realize you can't ask a dead person if he heard the horn or not, but I genuinely think the volume has very little to do with it.
That's my two cents. Now you can tell me if I don't like the noise I can move blah blah blah. But I was here before they boosted the volume on the air horns.
His/Her Honour- "Proceed"
Attorney for the Plaintiff- "Your Honour, submissions before you make it clear that the train involved in the accident was equipped with a warning device, to wit a horn, but the engineer was precluded from this one of its several intended uses, sounding a warning at a level crossing. The Town had exacted an agreement from the Rail Road to desist from sounding the horn at crossings in the Town, so my client was not properly warned of the oncoming train as is the convention the world over."
His/Her Honour- (turning to look over his/her spectacle at the defendant's attorney) "Is this true?"
Defendant's Attorney- "Well, yes, Your Honour, but..."
His/Her Honour- "Judgement for the Plaintiff in the amount of US$2.6M. Court is adjourned."
Datafever wrote:[The problem is that the "fool" that disregarded the crossing guards can always claim non-agreement with the horn-free policy and sue the railroad and the local jurisdiction for creating an unsafe environment.
The problem is that the "fool" that disregarded the crossing guards can always claim non-agreement with the horn-free policy and sue the railroad and the local jurisdiction for creating an unsafe environment.
I don't see any evidence that a person determined to run a crossing in order to beat a train, is any less inclined to do so just because horns are blaring.
CSXrules4eva wrote: I don't care if it was a little brach line that only sees 1 train a day.AS a matter of fact I really don't beleive in quite zones, because they cut down on safety.
I don't care if it was a little brach line that only sees 1 train a day.
AS a matter of fact I really don't beleive in quite zones, because they cut down on safety.
During the summer, MERR runs 4 or 5 passenger trains to Brunswick and back every day. During the Rockland Lobster Festival and Jazz Festival, they run 3 or 4 extras as well. They also run freights, but on another track; this track goes to the Rockland station. They run freight year round. Any local person would be aware of the crossing - not many tourists on the Maine coast this time of year. There was no mention of cell phone one way or the other.
The crossing gates would have been in service today if the copper wire and other equipment had not been STOLEN a few months ago. MERR will be blowing horns at the 3 crossings in town until they get the crossing gates installed.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I wonder if it is quieter to have the sound of a collision, emergency vehicles and news people stomping around for hours and hours than to have a train blow a horn passing through or warning bells and lights.
When I worked in city government in a medium sized city, a group built a nursing home across the street from a fire station. They then got the fire station to not turn on the sirens until the trucks were at the corner because the noise disturbed the residents. They still complained because of the emergency lights being turned on at night woke them up even when the trucks were down the street.
TheAntiGates wrote:If the railroad and the local jurisdiction mutually agreed to a horn free environment, then it looks like everyone materially involved should have been happy.The fool that disregarded the crossing guards got what they had coming to them, I hope the RR submits a whopping repair bill to the car driver's insurance company, hope it maxes out their coverage, and places the driver in debt for a long time.
If the railroad and the local jurisdiction mutually agreed to a horn free environment, then it looks like everyone materially involved should have been happy.
The fool that disregarded the crossing guards got what they had coming to them, I hope the RR submits a whopping repair bill to the car driver's insurance company, hope it maxes out their coverage, and places the driver in debt for a long time.
Dan
TimChgo9 wrote: I don't know what it is about trains, railroad crossings and people, I really don't.
I don't know what it is about trains, railroad crossings and people, I really don't.
It's not just railroad crossings that bring the stupidity out of people.
Ever notice the idiots out on the highway who seem to think that if they can pull onto the highway from a side road in time to get completely in front of you, then it's "your job" to slow down and keep from rear ending them?
Or the idiots who seem to think the passing lane belongs to them first and formost , and if they want to pass a car that you are already passing, but they want to go faster than you, they assume YOU are blocking THEIR passing lane, and start throwing a tantrum with the headlights, horn, and sometimes the gas pedal?
And don't even get me started on shopping center parking lot mania.
It's all about people's petty selfishness,and unwillingness to wait their turn.
I see a fair share of numbskulls try to drive around crossing gates, even with the train's horns blaring , so to try and blame this accident on a quiet zone agreement in place, seems to me to be a specious argument.
Well this is an interesting grade crossing incident. I do have one little thing to point out. I personally don't think it is a good idea to set up a quiet zone when there are no adiquate (sp) warning signals at the crossing itself. I don't care if it was a little brach line that only sees 1 train a day. The point is that danger can happen at any time when you least expect it. If a city wants to apply for a quite zone there should be a minimum of waring lights and bells, at least. I think some of these little citys or towns need to take into consideration saftey before comfort.
No need for ALL the local residents to suffer at the noise of the horns just because a few idiots are stupid.
we wouldn't require EVERYONE to wear depends undergarments just because SOME people are incontinent, nor ban all guns just because SOME people are bank robbers, so lets not call the noise abatement agreements a failure just because a few people obviously are.
miniwyo wrote: billbtrain wrote: Number 4.If you have a problem with noise,don't buy or rent a house next to railroad tracks(or airports,or busy highways,or.....). This is the exact reason why I think Quiet Zones are a huge load of Horse Poo. It may be loud but that noise saves lives. If you don't like noise. Live somewhere else, the Railroad was there first.(In most cases.)
billbtrain wrote: Number 4.If you have a problem with noise,don't buy or rent a house next to railroad tracks(or airports,or busy highways,or.....).
Number 4.If you have a problem with noise,don't buy or rent a house next to railroad tracks(or airports,or busy highways,or.....).
This is the exact reason why I think Quiet Zones are a huge load of Horse Poo. It may be loud but that noise saves lives. If you don't like noise. Live somewhere else, the Railroad was there first.(In most cases.)
Have you ever thought to yourself that the folks whose homes are right at the Rochelle diamonds (and if you have never been there, there are at least a dozen or more...likely more than 20) must go nuts litening to the trains cross the diamonds day and night, 24-7, 365 days a year!...Well, the rails were there LONG before any of these old homes were built.
Did any part of the story say that she was talking on her Cell phone when she hit the train?
I swear to God......
How's this? The schools where my little ones attend spends lots of money on anti-drug, self esteem, and "stranger danger" assemblies, and educational materials, and the like. While walking through the halls of my 5 year old's elementary school, I came across 1 poster about being safe around trains... and this school is 1 block from the busy IHB (no real high speed trains, but dangerous all the same) and that poster was at the end of a hallway in and amongst other posters about some of the aforementioned subjects, and was barely 10x14, you had to look to see it. So, I walked to the office and asked the receptionist when the last time "Operation Lifesaver" came out to talk to the kids. She couldn't remember, so she asked one of the teachers that had been at that school for years, and she couldn't remember. So, I asked to speak to the principal, and asked her why they don't have a speaker from OL come to the school, I mean, after all, the school is 1 block from the tracks, and most of the students live within a few blocks of either the IHB or BNSF or both. I told her they should make "train safety" a bigger priority than it apparently is.... She told me they would consider the suggestion.
There is a crossing guard (no lights or gates) at the one crossing the kids use, but every morning, I still see kids run across the tracks, sometimes when a train is coming. One morning, as the students were gathering for the start of the day, a CN extra came through, blowing it's horn for all it's worth as it approached the school's pedestrian crossing... I heard one mother exclaim to another "You know, I wish those damn trains would stop that, this is a school zone!!" I shook my head in disgust. And, my son, who was with me said, to no one in particular "The engineer blows his horn so the kids know he's coming, and stay off the tracks." Kind of amazing what kids appear to know, and adults seem to have forgotten...
billbtrain wrote:Number 4.If you have a problem with noise,don't buy or rent a house next to railroad tracks(or airports,or busy highways,or.....).
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
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billbtrain wrote: Number 1.Trains have right of way at road crossings.Have a good one.Bill B
Number 1.Trains have right of way at road crossings.
Have a good one.
Bill B
More importantly, from a functional voewpoint, is that trains have "Right of Weight" almost everywhere.
Jack
Number 2.Trains use horns at crossings.
Number 3.Trains are bigger than you are.
Number 5.What don't people understand about these points?(other than lack of common sense or lack of a brain to contain common sense)
"EXPECT A TRAIN ON ANY TRACK AND AT ANY TIME"
Smart words to live by. Another saying that works here is "STUPID DOES AS STUPID IS"
Have fun with your trains
Last Sunday there was another incident on the Maine Eastern RR in Rockland ME. An SUV ignored or did not see the flagman at a crossing, and drove in front of the oncomming train - a Christmas 'Polar Express' special for childern. The whole thing started last summer when residents near the crossings complained about the noise of the train whistle; MERR agreed to stop blowing the horn and place flaggers at 3 crossings that did not have lights or gates. Now, this person just drove by the flagger and got run into by the train. Fortunately, the train was going slowly and no one was injured. See the news report on this link; click Play Video for the full story:
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=46801
Crossing gates are on order, but the project was delayed because the copper wire and other equipment were stolen from the railroad's storage area.
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