How do trains change tracks when there is no switch stand around

[nbrodar]

I hate those submarine switches.  I always carried a crowbar when I operated them, because:
A.) they often need some persuasion to go over
B.) for protection from the wild life that tends to live under the plate.

Nick

You haven't jumped until you've found a snake under one of those!! Luckily, ni my case it was a garter snake...

LC

We don't get too many snakes in the city.   We have LARGE rats. Or are they small dogs?

Nick

[da Milwaukee beerNut]

Cross the Hoan bridge in Milwaukee every day right over Jones Island. I see train cars down on the docks getting loaded and unloaded. My question is: there are a lot of tracks that intersect with one another, but I don't see any switch stands. Wondering how the train crews change tracks. Is there a sensor in the ground to direct the train or what? Can someone please help here?

Recently learned much of the track on Jones Island was actually part of the Chesapeake & Ohio railroad - dating back to when ferries to/from Michigan carried rail freight across Lake Michigan- avoiding the eternal rail bottleneck of Chicago. Most all of that infrastructure carries a deep brown rust - the throws and many of the rails. Those that see regular traffic will have silver railtops - but rust rules down there. Not too surprising given the constant source of moisture.

They interchanged traffic both Milw Road and CNW, and had a switcher stationed on the island. Both CP - successor of the Milw, and UP - which assimilated the CNW, have access to trackage at the harbor.
Switches in that area do not, for the most part, have indicator blades [red/green or the unmistakable Milwaukee Road red/white chevrons]. Yard limits would be less than 10 mph on almost all the track at the port.
Football schedule tomorrow is pretty bland - while the bird is still in the oven, take a ride down there and do a bit of exploring. Imagine it will be pretty quiet.

[BR60103]

Toronto Transit has 2 types of powered switches. (I'm talking up to the end of the PCC era).

The one was called Self Restoring. The point would be turned curved manually, using the switch iron. When the next car came by, the shoe would run by a contact on the wire and reset the point straight. If the car had to take the curve, it was out with the switch iron again.

The other was called Necessity Action (or Necessary action). Each car had a big button on the dash panel labelled NA. There was a button on the side of the shoe attached to this button. A contact on the wire touched this button and if the NA button were pushed, the points would be set curved; if the NA button were not pushed, the points would be set straight.

NA switches were used at intersections where routes diverged and other points which received frequent use. SR were used at frequent detours  and going into carbarns. TTC produced regular diagrams showing the powered switches.

It was spectacular to watch a switch being reset after a rainstorm when there was a puddle of water over the points.

There was a further variation. On the two routes (Bloor and Queen) which had Multiple Unit trains, they needed some way to prevent the points from being switched between cars. Two more contactors were installed, before and after the switch, called a Locking Contactor. This counted the trolley poles in and out of the section and locked the points until there were no cars in.  This was hard on a motorman who followed another car too closely; he then had to get out and turn the points by hand.

When TTC started running different length cars (standard and articulated) the poles no longer were the same distance from the front of the cars, so they switched to some electronic gizmo under the operator.

To the best of my knowledge, no other transit system used this method.

There was one swtch that was both SR and NA. At Dundas West subway station, the streetcar loop was entered from both directions. The loop made a full circle for southbound cars, with other curves for the nothbound. If you were running southbound along the street, you could choose either to enter the station or pass it (night cars) with an NA switch. Coming out of the loop, the switch was SR so that you would be routed down the street.

[Medina1128]

Years ago, AAR and USRA got together to make special order cars. They were called 'footy cars'. When they came to a switch that the switch stand was locked or missing, little feets would pop down and the cars would tippy toe over to the next track. Alas, you don't see them anymore. They were too costly to maintain. Can you imagine what a boxcar pedicure would run?!?!

[MStLfan]

What about streetcar switches I don't beleive many of those are operated from a central control location. Is there a some mechanism that the motorman uses to operate a switch from the car?

I believe that most of the frequently used switches in cable car service are spring switches that only have to be thrown in one direction.

LC

Most streetcars throw switches via the catenary I think. In the Netherlands streetcars have a crowbar because every so often the mechanism fails and the driver has to get out and move the switch with the crowbar. Here in Rotterdam the conductor often does it if he or she is up front talking with the driver.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

[rbomier]

When I lived in Chicago, the streetcar switches that needed control had a contact up on the wire.  To go straight through, the motor man would turn off power and coast past the contact.  To take the divergent route, he would go slowly with the power on, energizing the contact, supplying power to the switch motor, moving the point (usually just one), and routing the car around the corner.

Art

Thanks for the info, I have ridden the cars in Toronto many times and could not figure how the switch selection was made. I beleive this is is the system that is used there.

[Nataraj]

In San fransisco, There is a control box next to the track. The streetcar operator opens the window, and pushes the correct botton. (straight or diverging)

OR

It is a automatic switch and the central control switches it. (They run computer control [CTC?] downtown, and also, auto switches are used in heavy traffic zones)

OR

It is the switch in the ground, and the operator uses a hook on a pose to switch the points. But is it very rare. Only a few left.

[Anonymous]

When I lived in Chicago, the streetcar switches that needed control had a contact up on the wire.  To go straight through, the motor man would turn off power and coast past the contact.  To take the divergent route, he would go slowly with the power on, energizing the contact, supplying power to the switch motor, moving the point (usually just one), and routing the car around the corner.

Art

[Limitedclear]

What about streetcar switches I don't beleive many of those are operated from a central control location. Is there a some mechanism that the motorman uses to operate a switch from the car?

I believe that most of the frequently used switches in cable car service are spring switches that only have to be thrown in one direction.

LC

[Limitedclear]

I hate those submarine switches.  I always carried a crowbar when I operated them, because:
A.) they often need some persuasion to go over
B.) for protection from the wild life that tends to live under the plate.

Nick

You haven't jumped until you've found a snake under one of those!! Luckily, ni my case it was a garter snake...

LC

[Keegan]

I know the area you are talking about.  I'm pretty sure this is not CTC territory.  In some cases, These are cross overs where the crew can't actually switch, it's basically just an intersection.  Most of the time though these are regular switches that just have the low profile manual throws, so from the bridge you wouldn't be able to see a typical switch stand like other around the Milwaukee area.  I know the old Milwaukee road stands are quite tall and very distinctive.

[squeeze]

I have a video that shows a motorman (streetcar driver) that carries an iron bar that looks like a crowbar without the hook on the end and physically moves the rails to the turn out that is desired. That video was made in the museum in Baltimore. Don't know if that was the way all the time when they were more popular.

[rbomier]

What about streetcar switches I don't beleive many of those are operated from a central control location. Is there a some mechanism that the motorman uses to operate a switch from the car?

[nbrodar]

I hate those submarine switches.  I always carried a crowbar when I operated them, because:
A.) they often need some persuasion to go over
B.) for protection from the wild life that tends to live under the plate.

Nick

[edblysard]

There is a switch...located in betwen the points of the switch, known as a submarine switch.

You will find the switch or turnout handle located under a steeel door directly between the points of the switch, flush with the dock surface.

Often, but not always, only one point of the switch moves.

Above switch only moves one switch point.

Below moves both.

Not fun to work, they are always full of old, nasty dirty water and gunk...

[jeffhergert]

  Even (most) power switches have a hand throw capability in case of problems.  There are (or were) some old power switches around Omaha on the UP that I know of, if the power machine failed you had to wait for a signal maintainer. They don't have a switch stand like a regular hand throw only switch.  

Jeff

[KCSfan]

The switches may be operated by an electrical switch machine controlled remotely as in
CTC territory or by radio command from the engine crew. In the location you describe it is more likely there is a low switch lever attached to a handle which is manually thrown by a trainman to align the switch with the desired track. Try to get up close and you'll probably see one or the other.

Mark

[railfan619]

Hi everyone i got me a question. I cross the hoan bridge here in milwaukee everyday and it goes right over jones island. And i see train cars down on the docks getting loaded and unloaded. But my question is there are alot of tracks that intersect with one another but i don't see any switch stands around there so. I was wondering how the train crews change tracks how do they do it. Is there a senor in the ground to direct the train or what.Can someone please help here and tell me how they do it.