How do RRs choose their engines?

[UPTRAIN]

You assume correctly trainboy! I lumped KCS and KCS de M together. And, I figure that I'll see a UP SD70ACe sometime, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. London is 4.5 hours away when it ain't snowin'!

FOUND ONE!

http://uptrain.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=530744

[PBenham]

You assume correctly trainboy! I lumped KCS and KCS de M together. And, I figure that I'll see a UP SD70ACe sometime, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. London is 4.5 hours away when it ain't snowin'!

[trainboyH16-44]

I'd assume that PBenham is talking about the TFM GEVOs?

[Anonymous]

New York Central used the "one Potato" method of ordering diesels, and look what it got them! Now, railroads buy what they have confidence in, almost regardless of cost. Employee input is very,very minimal, if there is any at all. CSX is buying ES44DCs, UP buys SD70DCs and ES 44ACs and DCs, like BNSF( they have SD70ACes which UP does not have-YET). They have however favored GE,but only marginally. NS splits their orders down the middle cost wise, so there are more GEs than EMDs but you never know with NS. CN likes DC power equally from EMD and GE, CP is in GE's camp, KCS is neutral, buying SD70ACes and ES 44ACs. This will bear watching. Now, who will come out with a practical dual mode/hybrid road locomotive? Whoever does build one will be very popular with states that are environmentally sensitive (read blue/socialist) and capable of blackmailing the railroads in their states!

UMM UP has SD70ACe's. Get out much?

And KCS with ES44DC's, havent seen any. When did they get them?

 

I suppose technically they didn't. They were ordered for KCS de Mexico.

[eolafan]

UP has over 200 SD70ACe's.  All of the new Heritage Fleet diesels are SD70ACe's.

(Tongue firmy in cheek) I'll bet the expense account reports of the EMD sales guys calling on UP gave the UP accounting department a heart attack while that sales campaign was going on!

[beaulieu]

EMD locomotives have slightly less horsepower and tractive effort than GE, but not enough to make much difference. Cost, financing, reliability, experience, prejudice, existing fleet, delivery date, price, all are factors.

exsplain to me how a emd is slightly less horsepower and traction effort.than a ge. 4000 hp is 4000 hp

Ahh, but your talking about NS which derates both models. On most railroads the SD70ACe is rated at 4300hp, while the ES44AC is rated at 4390hp.

[CSXrules4eva]

The short answer: Cost. EMDs cost a good amount more than GEs.

The EMDs-cost-more claim has been making the rounds of the Internet for a couple of years; but I've never seen it backed up by any specific examples.   Can anyone cite some actual figures?

Jay Potter

I have a source. Once upon a time when I was watching my Trains Big Power, video I heard Greg McDowell (sp), who happens to be a locomotive expert say that EMD products cost more than the GE, sorry I can't give you an exact quote becuase, I don't remember his exact words.

Now that EMD was taken over last year by Greenbrier Group from GM, I have no clue what the price ranges are for their products, it might of matchend GE's prices by now.

[coborn35]

New York Central used the "one Potato" method of ordering diesels, and look what it got them! Now, railroads buy what they have confidence in, almost regardless of cost. Employee input is very,very minimal, if there is any at all. CSX is buying ES44DCs, UP buys SD70DCs and ES 44ACs and DCs, like BNSF( they have SD70ACes which UP does not have-YET). They have however favored GE,but only marginally. NS splits their orders down the middle cost wise, so there are more GEs than EMDs but you never know with NS. CN likes DC power equally from EMD and GE, CP is in GE's camp, KCS is neutral, buying SD70ACes and ES 44ACs. This will bear watching. Now, who will come out with a practical dual mode/hybrid road locomotive? Whoever does build one will be very popular with states that are environmentally sensitive (read blue/socialist) and capable of blackmailing the railroads in their states!

UMM UP has SD70ACe's. Get out much?

And KCS with ES44DC's, havent seen any. When did they get them?

[wabash1]

EMD locomotives have slightly less horsepower and tractive effort than GE, but not enough to make much difference. Cost, financing, reliability, experience, prejudice, existing fleet, delivery date, price, all are factors.

exsplain to me how a emd is slightly less horsepower and traction effort.than a ge. 4000 hp is 4000 hp

I guess im going to hear this old reliable junk thatg a ge will get right down and pull. duh when it wont load anyways i guess it has to. i cant tell you how many times i have got a run at a hill with a ge consist and be down to 10-12 mph at the top but you hit a hill with a emd consist and keep on pulling and going. when ns bought the ge engines it came down to cost they said to us you can buy 2 ge engines for the cost of 1 emd.  but after the down time these ge engines costed the company they now buy emd

[JayPotter]

The short answer: Cost. EMDs cost a good amount more than GEs.

The EMDs-cost-more claim has been making the rounds of the Internet for a couple of years; but I've never seen it backed up by any specific examples.   Can anyone cite some actual figures?

Jay Potter

[silicon212]

UP has over 200 SD70ACe's.  All of the new Heritage Fleet diesels are SD70ACe's.

[PBenham]

New York Central used the "one Potato" method of ordering diesels, and look what it got them!
Now, railroads buy what they have confidence in, almost regardless of cost. Employee input is very,very minimal, if there is any at all. CSX is buying ES44DCs, UP buys SD70DCs and ES 44ACs and DCs, like BNSF( they have SD70ACes which UP does not have-YET). They have however favored GE,but only marginally. NS splits their orders down the middle cost wise, so there are more GEs than EMDs but you never know with NS. CN likes DC power equally from EMD and GE, CP is in GE's camp, KCS is neutral, buying SD70ACes and ES 44ACs. This will bear watching. Now, who will come out with a practical dual mode/hybrid road locomotive? Whoever does build one will be very popular with states that are environmentally sensitive (read blue/socialist) and capable of blackmailing the railroads in their states!

[coborn35]

I thought that it was"one potato,two potato, etc."

NO NO NO!!!

Its "eeny meeny miny mo"

Or

That one looks cheap. AND it comes with a PRE applied paintscheme!! PRIMER TAN!!

[doghouse]

I thought that it was"one potato,two potato, etc."

[beaulieu]

EMD locomotives have slightly less horsepower and tractive effort than GE, but not enough to make much difference. Cost, financing, reliability, experience, prejudice, existing fleet, delivery date, price, all are factors.

[BaltACD]

Pulling potential is only 1 factor in locomotive purchases.

Others inclued

Service history with the manufacturer.
Service support by the manufacturer
Financing assistance
Compatability with existing fleet - from both operational & serviceing standpoints
Bias of individual with responsibility for the purchase

Just like one's purchase of personal transportation there is no one single factor that will always be the decision point on what is ultimately purchased.

[trainboyH16-44]

The short answer: Cost. EMDs cost a good amount more than GEs.
The long answer: There are a lot of other factors, which will undoubtedly be outlined below within a few hours

[usersatch]

I was wondering why and how railroads pick their power?  Just looking at it on paper the SD70/80/90 seem like a better choice than the GEs (based on HP, tractive effort, etc).  So why don't the railroads outfit their entire fleets with the EMDs?