Electroliner 1935Imron paint is not cheap but in addition there is prep, masking, needle point chipping/scaling, primer, and personel protection. All add to the cost. Labor costs with benefits can excede $100/hr. So I'm thinking $25k is not excessive. As for IRM, they are a 501C3 nonprofit organization. They don't have to make a profit but they have to exceed their costs.
I have no clue how many people it takes to process a locomotive but would be surprised if it was over 5? Maybe the costs are in the paint shop and staff sitting idle between jobs?
By the way, the purchase of the branch lines by Watco from CN had not been approved yet as of 08/22/21. I would anticipate Watco Black and Yellow to be the paint schematic seen on the Fox Valley & Lake Superior.
Imron paint is not cheap but in addition there is prep, masking, needle point chipping/scaling, primer, and personel protection. All add to the cost. Labor costs with benefits can excede $100/hr. So I'm thinking $25k is not excessive. As for IRM, they are a 501C3 nonprofit organization. They don't have to make a profit but they have to exceed their costs.
Noah Hofrichter I've been told by a few employees the WSOR paint shop is the biggest money loser on the railroad! Why? Simply because what the WSOR is almost too specialized. When the WSOR paints something like the UP Heritage units, it's the only thing that may get done in one week. That's a lot of resources being sucked into one job, when there are many other things that need to be done.
Isn't the going rate for a Locomotive repaint $25,000 and up? Last I heard and I think it was IRM that quoted that price years ago so it is probably $35k or more now. It takes basically a few days to paint a unit with quality paint based on what I know. I would be curious how many people they have involved with the process if they are losing money with that kind of charge. Even for a week labor with 4-5 people, it would seem you should make money with a charge like that. Not only that but typically the client pays for haulage in and haulage out of the equipment to be painted if I understand things correctly......which is more money.
IRM work is probably done at a discount for the tax credit involved. I can see them losing money on that museum business but at the same time they probably make it back with the tax credit against revenue.
As for keeping the road units freshly painted. Yes expensive but generates goodwill among current and future customers that would not have a rolling eye sore switching their factory. Also, you'll find studies done that employees tend to take care of equipment better if it looks well taken care of vs beat up. So there are hidden incentives.
Also, have a hard time believing they solicit business for a money losing operation. That doesn't make any sense for a short line.
Does the Horicon paint shop still exist in 2021 now that WAMX owns WSOR?
I spotted a large fleet of GACX power at Horicon recently and I'm trying to figure-out if the power is for some of the new business that WSOR picked-up from the CN or if the units are actually freshly painted locos.
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Noah Hofrichter wrote: The WSOR does do quality work, and does a lot of contracts for quite a few railroads. And yet, I've been told by a few employees the WSOR paint shop is the biggest money loser on the railroad! Why? Simply because what the WSOR is almost too specialized. When the WSOR paints something like the UP Heritage units, it's the only thing that may get done in one week. That's a lot of resources being sucked into one job, when there are many other things that need to be done. Another way the shop looses money is in exaclty what someone mentioned - have you ever seen a WSOR engine that is rusted or faded severly? And ever notice how most of the WSOR rolling stock is kept in good paint? That all costs a lot of money to do, as it does on any railroad. Contract jobs like the UP units do help to off set some of the cost, but it still looses a lot of money. Now if the WSOR were to expand the paint shop some (or perhaps quite a bit), then they might be able to turn a little bit of a profit (or at least not loose quite as much money!) What the WSOR really needs to do as well is get large contracts, not just specialty jobs. If the WSOR could get a contract for say 30 BNSF SD70ACe's a year, and they could just set up an assembly line process to paint them, that would also go a long way to helping the WSOR actually make money at their painting end of the business. For now though, the WSOR seems to not mind throwing money at the paint shop with the one or two locomotive per contract way they live, although they are good at what do. Noah
The WSOR does do quality work, and does a lot of contracts for quite a few railroads. And yet, I've been told by a few employees the WSOR paint shop is the biggest money loser on the railroad! Why? Simply because what the WSOR is almost too specialized. When the WSOR paints something like the UP Heritage units, it's the only thing that may get done in one week. That's a lot of resources being sucked into one job, when there are many other things that need to be done.
Another way the shop looses money is in exaclty what someone mentioned - have you ever seen a WSOR engine that is rusted or faded severly? And ever notice how most of the WSOR rolling stock is kept in good paint? That all costs a lot of money to do, as it does on any railroad. Contract jobs like the UP units do help to off set some of the cost, but it still looses a lot of money. Now if the WSOR were to expand the paint shop some (or perhaps quite a bit), then they might be able to turn a little bit of a profit (or at least not loose quite as much money!) What the WSOR really needs to do as well is get large contracts, not just specialty jobs. If the WSOR could get a contract for say 30 BNSF SD70ACe's a year, and they could just set up an assembly line process to paint them, that would also go a long way to helping the WSOR actually make money at their painting end of the business. For now though, the WSOR seems to not mind throwing money at the paint shop with the one or two locomotive per contract way they live, although they are good at what do.
Noah
Looks like theyre going for the reputation.
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JOdom wrote: jeaton wrote: Assuming that the Class 1's have paint shops, they would want to keep their own shops running at a steady pace and for efficiency doing strictly standard work. So, if the company shops are going full tilt and the backlog of work is growing or a job is special, sending some work to an outside shop can be an economical option to expanding the company shop capacity. Needless to say, any regional or shortline with a modest locomotive fleet would probably outshop their paint work. UP's paint shop(s) are probably like a busy factory trying to maximize output, with their procedures honed to a fine edge to do one standard scheme quickly and well. It's also likely they don't do "specials" very often. Given those circumstances, putting one "special"scheme through there could be astonishingly disruptive. Sending the units to Horicon was probably significantly more expensive than painting the same number of units in UP's standard scheme in UP's paint shop, but considering the disruption and decreased productivity UP was money ahead to send the units out.
jeaton wrote: Assuming that the Class 1's have paint shops, they would want to keep their own shops running at a steady pace and for efficiency doing strictly standard work. So, if the company shops are going full tilt and the backlog of work is growing or a job is special, sending some work to an outside shop can be an economical option to expanding the company shop capacity. Needless to say, any regional or shortline with a modest locomotive fleet would probably outshop their paint work.
Assuming that the Class 1's have paint shops, they would want to keep their own shops running at a steady pace and for efficiency doing strictly standard work.
So, if the company shops are going full tilt and the backlog of work is growing or a job is special, sending some work to an outside shop can be an economical option to expanding the company shop capacity.
Needless to say, any regional or shortline with a modest locomotive fleet would probably outshop their paint work.
UP's paint shop(s) are probably like a busy factory trying to maximize output, with their procedures honed to a fine edge to do one standard scheme quickly and well. It's also likely they don't do "specials" very often. Given those circumstances, putting one "special"scheme through there could be astonishingly disruptive. Sending the units to Horicon was probably significantly more expensive than painting the same number of units in UP's standard scheme in UP's paint shop, but considering the disruption and decreased productivity UP was money ahead to send the units out.
Exactly!
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I think you forgot about the IRM ex-CNW 401 that was just painted not too long ago.
Do they oonly do trains?? Lets say I really like that CNW Heritage paint scheme... Do you think they could paint my truck the same way?
CC
And the ex-Milwaukee Road Rib-Side Caboose that they restored and painted for the 1003 group.
And the 3 C&NW Bi-Level Passenger Cars at IRM
And the Osceola & St Croix Valley Soo Line GP9
And numerous other pieces of equipment on the line.
And have you ever seen a rusty/dirty WSOR engine? Or passenger car?
Phil
da Milwaukee beerNut wrote:Beside the 4141 and Heritage designs Fuzzy cited, Horicon has painted SD70ACe's for both UP [wings] and BNSF from primered deliveries. BNSF has also shipped "underwear" 70's to both Ceeco on the left coast [WA] and some place in KC [Mid American??] for painting. Apparently Electro-Motive can build and prime these a heckuva lot quicker than the cycle needed to properly cure the finish coats. So they travel the rails in primer. I've not heard of any UP ACe's moving in primer to Arkansas for their Armour Yellow - but it would not surprise me.WSOR also has painted equipment for the Illinois RR Museum at Union - most recently CNW 411.
And the Lake Superior Railroad Museums SOO LINE GP30 #700, which got fresh paint last year.
Our (UPRR) main paint shops are located in North Little Rock, Ark. Other locatins have the ability to do patch work, but most heavy work is done here.
I should add that if a unit is out sourced for paint, then it's sent to Paducah, Ky.
jeaton wrote: Murphy Siding wrote: Er.....maybe their equipment only does Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray? Er.....Maybe you answered your own question? Horicon does seem to do quality work.
Murphy Siding wrote: Er.....maybe their equipment only does Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray?
Er.....Maybe you answered your own question?
Horicon does seem to do quality work.
Do they specialize in railroad paint jobs for other railroads? I can't imagine that they have enough of their own paintwork to keep too many people busy. I can't believe, either,that UP doesn't have people on staff to paint locomotives. But then, BNSF seems to have a lot of people available to paint locomotives in lots of different paint schemes.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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