A few oddball stories...

[Mikeygaw]

... plus a billion and a half questions that I came up with from them.

I'll start with the one with no questions that shows how hard dispatchers try to get out of paperwork

About a month or two ago, there was a small brush fire on some tracks that service the ports on the Deleware River. No one knew who owned this particulart set of tracks. So the fire department begins calling around to the different companies to find out who owns the tracks to alert them about the activity on the tracks and get the info for the logs. After calling around to the various companies (CSX, NS, Conrail, Amtrak, Septa, and the Port Authority), they all DENIED owning the tracks.

Next...

About ten years or so ago, there was a tractor trailer that had tried to squeeze under a railroad bridge and couldn't fit, and it got itself wedged under the bridge, and rather well in there too. As I recall, there was a part of the truck sticking out on both sides of the trestle. While they were trying to extricate the truck, trains were continued to be sent over the bridge.
Now for the Q's
Was this standard practice them? Is it now? Is the use of abridge with a truck wedged under it determined on a case to case bases? If so, how is it determined if the bridge is safe to use? Is the track inspected to see if it was knocked out of alignment by the impact and scraping of the truck against the bridge? Is the structual integrity of the bridge checked? How does the damage to the truck factor in? And the trucks contents? Are there any differences when dealing with tanker trucks as opposed to regular trailors? And how often do trucks get themselves wedged under train trestles?

Next story

Few years back (2000, i think), there was a train derailment in a residential section of the city. As my foggy memory recall, several of the cars that had fell down an embankment. I think it was one that fell in the embankment and one that had derailed but had not gone down the embankment contained chemicals, that if the derailed cars had leaked, the chemicals when mixed would have destroyed an entire city block in each direction. Unfortunatley, i don't know the exact chemicals. I've also heard of some regulation prohitibiting chemicals that would have that reaction from being adjacent to each other. Question is, is there such a regulation?

I do apologize if this post is somewhat incoherent, i've had a long Columbus Day.

[leighant]

Location of cars with hazardous materials in trains, from a 1983 MKT employee timetable:
Car placarded Explosives-A must not be nearer than the sixth car from engine or caboose. However when length of train will not permit car to be so placed, it must be placed near center of train. Explosives -A must not be placed next to a loaded flat car, any open-top car where any of the load protrudes beyond the car ends, poison gas, radioactive or any loaded placarded car except combustibles.
Car placarded Poison gas must not be placed next to loaded flat car, any opentop car with protruding load as above, any car containing explosives, radioactive materials or any. No restriction on cars labeled Combustible.

[JoeKoh]

Hi mikey
if you want pictures of a truck stuck under a viaduct email me.it happens all the time here.I saw a picture in trains.showed a up caboose.it had a stencil on it saying "for end of train use only' where else would you put it?
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mikeygaw

... plus a billion and a half questions that I came up with from them.

I'll start with the one with no questions that shows how hard dispatchers try to get out of paperwork

About a month or two ago, there was a small brush fire on some tracks that service the ports on the Deleware River. No one knew who owned this particulart set of tracks. So the fire department begins calling around to the different companies to find out who owns the tracks to alert them about the activity on the tracks and get the info for the logs. After calling around to the various companies (CSX, NS, Conrail, Amtrak, Septa, and the Port Authority), they all DENIED owning the tracks.

Hi Mike,

I would be running down to the deeds registration office to get [b]my name [/b put on that piece of track, since none of the roads that use it seem to want it. Then, as the new owner I would negotiate some favorable trackage rights agreements with them. Could be a source of considerable revenue!

Jeff

[bnsfkline]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

Hi mikey
if you want pictures of a truck stuck under a viaduct email me.it happens all the time here.I saw a picture in trains.showed a up caboose.it had a stencil on it saying "for end of train use only' where else would you put it?
stay safe
Joe

I would love to see those pictures[:D]

[mudchicken]

Mikeygaw:

(1) BRUSH FIRE EXAMPLE:

Fire Department sounds like it is in some serious need of reality training and the county it's in has a weak to non-existant GIS program. If they actually knew what they were doing, they would (A) have bracketed the fire area and checked DOT #'s at a crossing either side of the fire area and (B) beforehand, scouted their territory - identifying areas in question along with routing issues. Also, from the sounds of it, locals are asking questions in localspeak instead of phrasing the question in terms the railroad might recognize (Milepost, Subdivision, DOT#, etc.) - remember that railroads tend to be long narrow corridors generally identified in relation to the track, not from the outside looking in. (For pete's sake, don't say the problem is on Main Street and then not elaborate, Do you know how mainy Main Streets there are on a given railroad? Hint: Use that DOT #.!!!!)......Railroads are now posting "panic numbers" and railroad ID on crosbucks and other crossing protection to help cut down the confusion when minutes count...UP,BNSF,CSX,CN-IC, NS have all done this)

2.) Bridge Strike Example:

Railroads take bridge strikes very seriously, especially when a bottom member of a girder or deck plate girder is in tension and gets hit. Generally, the struck bridge is not run over until a qualified inspection is made by a division engineer, roadmaster or hopefully bridge engineer or other B&B (bridge & building) qualified employee. Sorry, trainmen, trainmasters and dispatchers don't count! After an initial inspection, trains may be allowed over the bridge at restricted speed (up to 20 mph) with the first train crawling over the bridge under the watchfull eye of an inspector looking underneath. District speed is not allowed until all safety and design criteria are checked after a bridge engineer gets there and looks things over thoroughly. You have to be thoroughly trained to look for tell-tale signals that a larger problem looms. The same applies for fire charred timber bridges (is it superficial or does it go deep and weaken the timber structure?)

(3) Hazmat Incident (I'll lt Ed or Wabash or ironken take a crack at that)....I'm a trained hazmat responder who is taught that anything is possible. Double lined tanks, shelf couplers and shields aside, *** happens - I just help deal with it.

Valley dude: If you think your deed registration office (Clerk & Recorder down here) is prepared to tell you who owns what in a railroad sense, can I sell you some beachfront property in Arizona or perhaps the Brooklyn Bridge? Spend a good part of my time teaching surveyors in the western US why county records are so bad regarding railroads and why any GIS based on county records dealing with railroads is a sorry mess. (Hint: whatever the county assessor/ clerk and recorder has is usually out of date and frequently a wild assed guess by people without a clue). NTSB has now gotten into the act after an Amtrak derailment near Rochester was totally botched by local emergency response using faulty county GIS data.

There are plenty of none too bright truckers out there getting in trouble on a regular basis (Joe Koh confirms this)...I have seen trucks and cargo totally destroyed and the bridge still scarred, but servicable. I have also seen minor strikes where a bridge was removed from service account of a rocker plate out of position. It really depends on the bridge condition, not what hit it. From your initial description, trains may be running over the bridge because word has not gotten back to the railroad on the bridge strike.

Columbia Terminal (COLT) has a bridge over I-70 (ex-Wabash) at Columbia, MO that seems to get hit every 3-4 months, usually by a backhoe on a truck trailer. The bottom member is battered and torn, but the bridge soldiers-on. COLT has spent megabucks x-raying and investigating the steel looking for stress and impact cracking. Some day they are going to find something that closes the bridge. Then the trucker goes broke and I-70 gets rerouted for a while while cribbing shores up the damaged bridge until replacement. (It is the only rail line into town, cars and trucks can find other places to travel)

Mudchicken

[northwesterner]

Of you are looking for trucks stuck under bridges, try North Avenue in Chicago at the U.P. Metra tracks. This bridge is 12" 4", or so, and a semi gets stuck here every 10 days, or less. I don't know if U.P. sends out inspectors, as (a) the semi's are usually doing under 25mph, and (b) this viaduct is used by dozens of Metra and U.P. locals every day. I have never heard of any delays on Metra due to a stuck truck. I have seen my share of P.O.'d truck drivers when they are stuck and hundreds of commuters are trying to get by.

[mudchicken]

Does the UP/Metra bridge (12'-4" Clearance) have collision girders or beams? Many frequently struck bridges have a beam set just for overheight bozos to run into. Theory is that the beam absorbs the blow instead of the actual bridge. These beams are usually brightly painted with the clearance stencilled on them just to remind the witless about what they are about to collide with. Just a thought about why certain bridges may not create as much concern as others that get hit.

[jchnhtfd]

Regarding who owns what bit of track... in my current incarnation I have to determine ownership from time to time which, since I know something about railroads (not enough, guys, not enough!) isn't all that hard... but it is vastly entertaining to go to a town clerk (that's who keeps the records in these parts) and be told, with all sincerity, that such and such a bit of track is owned by the New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad... or one bit (I won't specify the town, to protect the idiots) owned by the Central New England railroad (absorbed by the New Haven in what? 1934 or thereabouts?)... (NOT the New England Central).

As several of you have said -- use the mileposts/DOT#.

[northwesterner]

The UP/Metra bridge is actually 12' 10", and was probably built in 1923, when the then C&NW elevated all of their rail lines in Chicago. And there is no brightly painted barrier beam, just a very mangled steel girder with a billboard for a local radio staion on it. Also, this bridge has four tracks on it, so when those oversize trucks get stuck, they are REALLY stuck.

[Mikeygaw]

there's a pair of bridges here, one is lower than the other, and on the higher of the two bridges, there are chains that reach down to the height of the lower bridge to serve as a warning... how often trucks get stuck there anyway, i couldn't say

[edblysard]

As for the hazmat cars, we would have to have the placard number, and the class of hazmat to determin if they were not placed correctly.
You have to have five "cover cars", non hazardous/non shiftable loads between the locomotive and the rest of the train.
Other major exceptions are: radioactive, hazmat class 7, poisions, class2, inhalation hazzard, class 6, and exploisives, class 1.
Other loaded hazardous tankcars may not be placed next to any of the above, although all that is required is one empty or non restricted car between them and the rest of the train.
No shiftable loads next to any hazardous tank.
I can scan and send you a copy of UP's placement in train chart if you send me your e-mail address.
Chart effective at 0001, Sunday, April 6, 2003.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[TH&B]

I've seen a trailer truck catch fire from scraping under a railroad bridge, sparks from the friction on the roof! There is flashing lights warning for trucks to turn off on a side street when they are too tall. My question is, how do truck drivers forget they are driving a big truck?