UP Operations in Milwaukee

[fuzzybroken]

Well now that is a really interesting development.  I didn't think that CP and WSOR would line up together and work together, but I suppose it makes sense.

I am a little unfamiliar with this 'canal job'.  Which industries are switched by this?  Is this over the new trackage that was laid when they rebuilt Canal St?

Another interesting tid bit although this is pure speculation.....I heard that the Valley power plant on Canal St. was toying with the possibility of upgrading their furnaces to handle low sulfur coal - currently the coal they get is brought in on barge.  If they would do this I wonder what it would mean for possible unit trains from CP?

Actually, CP and WSOR (and other WSOR predecessors) have been working together for quite some time.  CP sold the Madison-Watertown line to WSOR, only retaining rights to the Michels Pit for ballast.  Also, the Janesville-Chicago line was sold by SOO to WICT some years back...

The Canal Job does pretty much all of the non-yard switching in Milwaukeeland, with the exception of what the Lake Job does.  This includes the line to North Milwaukee, and as far south as "AC" (Delco/Delphi/now an empty plant).  This also includes the line on Canal Street, which I finally caught the other night when it was dark and absolutely nasty weather...  And I still snapped a picture!

Oh yeah, and you asked about industries.  I'm not sure how much of Tower is left, but the Canal Job would most likely handle whatever's left.  Also Harley Davidson (3700 W. Juneau plant) and Miller Brewing; Buzzi Unicem (aka Lonestar) and LaFarge (former St. Mary's, though they haven't seen rail service for a LONG time...) on the Canal St. line; Russel Metals/Williams Bahcall just north of Layton Ave.; Lindner Logistics just south of MKA; and the Oak Creek Industrial park on 6th and 10th Sts.

I think if the Valley power plant would switch to rail-delivered coal, it would most likely be an operation somewhat like the UW heat plant in Madison.  A whole trainload would get delivered, and then switched into the plant a few cars at a time...  Could be interesting, though I'd suspect it could be a case of building a rail spur for a negotiating tool...

[Keegan]

The only things I know of on Canal St. are St Mary's Cement and Lone Star Cement they are across the street from each other right at 6th.  Other than that I don't know what else gets done as part of that job, but I think those might be the only things actually on Canal St.

It would be cool to see units trains of coal rolling down Canal St.  Space is tight down there though and I don't think they have any track in place that would support such operations.

[solzrules]

I read the linked discussion...interesting possibility.  I see the ML on a pretty regular basis on my way to work.  It would be really cool to see WSOR working the canal job and possibly others someday.  I'll have to stock up on Athearn GP40 bodies for a few 380X units.

Well now that is a really interesting development.  I didn't think that CP and WSOR would line up together and work together, but I suppose it makes sense.

I am a little unfamiliar with this 'canal job'.  Which industries are switched by this?  Is this over the new trackage that was laid when they rebuilt Canal St?

Another interesting tid bit although this is pure speculation.....I heard that the Valley power plant on Canal St. was toying with the possibility of upgrading their furnaces to handle low sulfur coal - currently the coal they get is brought in on barge.  If they would do this I wonder what it would mean for possible unit trains from CP?

 

[Keegan]

I read the linked discussion...interesting possibility.  I see the ML on a pretty regular basis on my way to work.  It would be really cool to see WSOR working the canal job and possibly others someday.  I'll have to stock up on Athearn GP40 bodies for a few 380X units.

[fuzzybroken]

1.  There appears to be two buildings on Florida St. one near the intersection of Florida & Water and tthe other ust east of the CP main, that look like there are/were served by the Marsh Job, are either of them still switched?

I'm not sure about the one closer to Water St., but IIRC the building nearer the CP gets a tank car at a time as well...

2.  The buiding on S. Water st. along the river, is only the chemical storage area at the south of that building serviced, or is it all the same company and they have various spots along the facility?

The north end of that complex used to be Hansen Storage (a Journal Sentinel company), but that closed when they built the new plant in West Milwaukee.  Only the chemical company (Elementis) at the end of the line currently gets any rail service, and the most I've ever seen in there is a single tank car.

Also, you may want to consider including some WSOR power with your Jones Island plan, according to some information I got today... link...

[Keegan]

I've seen the MMSD switcher on occasion, that would be pretty cool to add space permitting.

Looking at some maps, I came up with some more questions that those of you very familiar with the area may be able to answer...

1.  There appears to be two buildings on Florida St. one near the intersection of Florida & Water and tthe other ust east of the CP main, that look like there are/were served by the Marsh Job, are either of them still switched?

2.  The buiding on S. Water st. along the river, is only the chemical storage area at the south of that building serviced, or is it all the same company and they have various spots along the facility?

3.  There is the petro chem. place south of Miller Compressing. It appears to have been served at some point, is it still?   If not when did the service stop, the Terraserver ariel photos from 2000 very clearly show the tracks leading into the facility

 4.  Finally further south still is the massive coal pile.  Has there been any rail service there recently or ever?

As soon as I come up with some time I'll have to plan a trip down there to take some photos and sketch some maps, but job is currently doing its best to make sure that is impossible.  Everyone has been extremely helpful, and tollerrant of my sometime naive questions.  Thanks.

[fuzzybroken]

A couple more thoughts...
 - I've seen the UP on a couple of occasions handle a baretable (empty intermodal) movement down to Jones Island.  Might be a good excuse to run some newer power, as they're usually somewhat overpowered.
 - You can also model the MMSD switcher and its switching operations.  It's a Plymouth switcher, so you may have to take some liberties in modeling it, but it's painted in a rather bright paint scheme.  There are also 7 (?) covered hoppers, numbered CCL 1 through 7, that are former UP cars of various heritages.  These tend to hang out on the Port side of the island.

[Keegan]

Yeah Keith, the photos were great and really helped me get my bearings.  It really does sound like most of that activity is no more, other than Jones Island and Miller Compressing (bummer).  For modeling though it seems like two (maybe three) warehouses, a chemical plant, and a scrap yard for Miller Compresing would represent the area nicely and probably without consuming too much space either.  I could put Jones Island on one 4x8ish table, I would probably add the landmark salt piles, and liquid storage facilites.  It would be nice to model the container yard and the LaFarge Cement silo since they stand out, but I'm pretty sure those are handled by CP.  Maybe I'll just take some modeler's liberties there.  I could have the mainline in from St. Francis head into staging until I either have more space/time to actually model the Green spur and Mitchell Yard.

[kschmidt]

    Thanks for the nice comments. 

    Mark,

    I got lucky catching the ex-CNW unit done there the day I was shooting.  I had heard rumors back then that the warehouses on the eastside of the river were closing when the Milwaukee Journal opened up its new plant out on 43rd and Burnham.  I wonder if the railroad would sell the switchtower ??

    I think Miller Compressing is pretty much what keeps the Marsh Job going beyond Jones Island.  Otherwise the once a week stuff from the other companies might not be enough to keep the railroad interested.

Keith

[fuzzybroken]

GREAT photos, Keith!  I especially like the photos of UPY 549, still wearing green and yellow...  I remember driving down in the Third Ward, and always intending to get back there to get some pictures of the freight cars.   I'm glad I've had the chance to catch the Marsh Job elsewhere...

Solz, I agree, it's sad to see a lot of those old-line rail shippers disappearing (been down to the Menomonee Belt Line lately? ), but then again some of the railroads haven't exactly been encouraging some of those companies to stick around...

[solzrules]

KSchmidt:

I really enjoyed those pictures!  I have worked many a day at Jone's island and have driven by many of those industries around there.  Rail activity apart from the port of Milwaukee seems to be in a major decline as the wharehouses and storage facilities are converted to high end condos.  I wasn't sure which RR did what but that was a great tutorial.

 

[kschmidt]

    I thought some visual aids might be handy in this discussion.  Both Dave and Ed have done a great job in helping talk about the area.  Below are some photos that I have taken of the UP working the area.  It is a great area to catch local switching. 



Here is shot of Hansen Warehouse on Polk Street.  This was taken in 2002, this building is now condos and the tracks are gone, plus an upscale seafood restaurant. 


The old tower that controlled the KK river bridge and entrance to the coachyards and Milwaukee's CNW depot.  Just think 400's used to roll by here everyday.  Also taken in 2002, the tower still stands.



Another siding on the east of the KK river.  This single car siding didn't get cars often, now it doesn't get any. 



A car in at National Warehouse.  Again taken in 2002, this siding hasn't been used since then. 



UPY CNW patch backs across KK river bridge.  This was taken in 2002. This move doesn't happen anymore, nothing to switch on that side of the river.



Almost street running along Water Street.  The loco was on its way to pick up the car at National Warehouse. So this doesn't happen anymore either



Taken in 2005, UP switches a chemical storage facility on Water Street. 



Backing off the mainline to Water Street.  This was taken in 2005 and this still happens everyday of the week. 



Switching behind National Warehouse, not much clearance here, not great track either.  This building gets switched probably once/twice a week.



Lets put the locomotive into the trees,  like I said not much room for error.



Marsh Job on Jones Island by the Grain Elevator.  Empty yard due to winter time. The track with the caboose on it is the old CNW mainline that used to host  400 passenger trains. 



Marsh Job inside working Miller Compressing Scarpyard on Water Street. 

I hope these pictures help.  I have a friend in the Milwaukee N Southeastern Model RR club who is building his layout based on this area of Milwaukee. 

Keith

[da Milwaukee beerNut]

Does the Marsh Job switch the old Medusa Cement facility, or is that CP territory? 

Tweaked the title because most of the track you are asking about is NOT UP. [It's hard to tell]
The re-named cement facility on Canal and 6th St. is handled by CP.
The spur that runs above South KK just north of Becher Street is the CP/Soo access to Jones Island - the Lake Job runs out of CP Muskego yard with a caboose! Not sure the facility east of KK avenue loads railcars - that's done closer to the lake with the canals at Jones Island.
The UP path to Jones Island is several miles south - the tracks that come east from Mitchell Yard are between Oklahoma and Holt/Morgan avenues.

I drove the area around National & Water once.  I couldn't make much out in terms of industry's mostly because I didn't have time to get out of the car and wander around. I did manage to catch a glimpse of the what I now know was the Marsh job spotting a tank car at a building on S. Water. I'm a northsider myself so it always takes me a trip or two to learn where things are down there.  I'm pretty familiar with the valley and the port, but haven't been to the area around S. Water St. much. Knowing this will help make my next trip more interesting.

Water St. /1st Street is CP turf. Behind the MCTS bus depot at Mitchell St. there's a switch for the lead to the Burnham [9th-16th Streets] and Muskego [below 27th street] yards. (Not sure myself where the division point is between those 2.) At 1st/Florida, this single track is on the south bridge. Slim's Pub is on the east side of 1st St. - the 2nd story windows make for great viewing for trains headed out of the yard.
The north bridge at that spot carries the CP mainlines to the swing bridge off the east end of the depot/post office at 2nd St. and the river.
Amtrak and freight trains which do not need to pull into the Burnham/Muskego yards run these tracks. These two mains meet the west Muskego yard leads at a spot called Cutoff - near the Falk Corp. in the Menominee Valley. The official rr spot for Cutoff is just east of 32nd St. and Canal St.  The Hank Aaron trail and the new bridges connect Canal St. now to the Stadium freeway off the south side of Miller Park.
This is as much as I can squeeze out of my brain tonite.   

[dknelson]

Mark

Don Ross's wonderful website seems to cover this in more than once place but looking quickly at his CNW pages

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr003.htm

Don writes (with photo captions)

South of the station were the coach yards and the 3^rd Ward Roundhouse. Just beyond the line crossed the Milwaukee River on a swing bridge. Originally, everything was controlled from a tower just north of the bridge. I understand the tower is still standing and used by an office by a non-railroad firm. The controls for switches were moved to the top of the bridge when everything was electrified. I worked this job many times, and one of my best friends, Bob Eichelberg, fell from the top step to the bridge deck one icy night. He remained as a vegetable for his entire life. He passed away in 1998. He was an extremely intelligent young man who was an accomplished violinist, excellent photographer, and law student. The railroad was required to pay the largest workman's comp settlement in history up to that time.

At the other end of the yards south of the river was the former suburban station named Allis. Next to the tracks was the site of the original Allis-Chalmers works. They later moved to a settlement named North Greenfield which was several miles west out National Avenue. The citizens changed the name to West Allis in honor of the move about 1903. The Allis station was used as a yard office. The baggage room below track level was the site of an HO club in the early 1940s. Just to the west, the Milwaukee Road had a station, named National Avenue, which was under the tracks. It is the present location of the Model Railroad Club of Milwaukee, which has been there over 60 years.

Another two blocks south was the Washington Street Tower. This tower controlled the crossing of the Milwaukee Road with the Madison Division which cut off from the main line at this point. It also controlled access to the yards in the area. It was the busiest tower in Milwaukee with over 50 moves in each shift. The operator was classed as a Train Director. I was the youngest and only extra man qualified for this tower. It's gone.

The belt line now becomes the Madison Division. A little farther south was the Kinnickinnic River bridge which was called KK Madison since there was also a KK bridge on the main line. The tower was on the top of the bridge, and it was the first job I worked for the C&NW in October, 1951. It seldom opened, but the tower controlled the yard leads in the area.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0001/cnwwash.jpg

Dave Nelson

[fuzzybroken]

On a related note...  How did the CNW intersect with the MILW near what is now known as "Wash 4"?  Was there a set of diamonds, or was it a group of switches and crossovers?

[Keegan]

Thank you for the wealth of information. 

Does the Marsh Job switch the old Medusa Cement facility, or is that CP territory? 

I drove the area around National & Water once.  I couldn't make much out in terms of industry's mostly because I didn't have time to get out of the car and wander around. I did manage to catch a glimpse of the what I now know was the Marsh job spotting a tank car at a building on S. Water. I'm a northsider myself so it always takes me a trip or two to learn where things are down there.  I'm pretty familiar with the valley and the port, but haven't been to the area around S. Water St. much. Knowing this will help make my next trip more interesting. Thanks.

I'd love to see your photos if they are readily available.

[kschmidt]

    Well if you looking for UP action around the Port of Milwaukee the "Marsh Job" is the train to check out.  Lately the Marsh Job has been working out of Mitchell Yard daily.  Its first assignment is to switch the "Green Line".  This is a piece of track about 1 mile long that runs south from the mainline to a Peltz recycling plant.  The track runs through a county park as it heads south.  The tracks runs parallel to 20th street in Milwaukee.  The Marsh Job is usually working this line in the morning 8:30am-9:30am.  They usually bring a cut of cars and remove the loads and replace with empties.  Then after returning to Mitchell then they head east to the National Ave spur and head down to Jones Island and National Ave area.
   
    On the Port of Milwaukee the UP switches the Grain Elevator which has its own Alco switcher, which is out very rarely.  Also the UP switches the warehouses and salt storage areas.  After leaving the Port the train heads across a swing bridge and will switch several industries.  These include a chemical plant, and two warehouses.  One of the warehouses requires the locomotive running on some pretty interesting trackage.  The train usually returns to Mitchell Yard in the afternoon 2p-4pm.  

    Also there is the Cudahy Job.  This job also works out of Mitchell Yard.  This job will run out of Mitchell in the morning and head to Cudahy to switch the Cudahy Car Shops, Patrick Cudahy and a plastics plant in South Milwaukee.  I believe this job may also switch Bucyrus-Erie plant in South Milwaukee. 

    To watch these trains.  35th street bridge goes right over Mitchell Yard and has no fence so shots of the yard are easy to get.  To see the Marsh Job switch the Green Line check out 20th Street and Oklahoma Avenue around 8:30am and follow the line south to Morgan Ave.  To see it switch the Port just head down there, the Port is open and I have never been questioned about taking photos. 

    The Cudahy Job is a bit tougher to catch,  the car shops are behind Ladish and are not easy to get to.  The plastic plant in South Milwaukee and Bucyrus Erie would be much easier to catch, but they aren't switched everyday. 

    I hope this helps, if you want more photos let me know. 

    Keith

   

[Keegan]

I'm looking for information on UP's operations in Milwaukee, specifically around Mitchell yard and the Port of Milwaukee.  I've seen some great photos of a "Marsh Job", but I don't know what else goes on around that area in terms of locals.  Any information would be great; job names, symbols, etc.  I'm looking to model a small switiching layout based on the Milwaukee area, so information about industries on the line would also be helpful.  I'm in the area, so if any locals know a good intersection or two to watch from that would be great.  Thanks.