Killer Tables

[FJ and G]

In this morning's "Washington Post" newspaper is an article about the cause of the California freight-passenger train derailment (which happened some time ago).

Cause was tables, which cut into victims' abdomens. Some old-time railroaders were also interviewed and they added that in the old cabooses (cabeese?) many were injured/killed when the tables sliced into them during a rough movement.

The article added that the culprit of tables has been known for some time but no action has yet been taken to mitigate/eliminate the hazard.

Another hazard cited was facing chairs (sudden stop causes passengers to be thrown into each other).

Perhaps the traditional seating then is the best solution.

Anyway, the article caused me to think twice about where I sit on my daily VRE commutes.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Cabooses were eventually equipped with seat belts for that reason. Wearing of seat belts was required by the Safety Book of Rules.

[FJ and G]

Didn't realize seatbelts in cabeese. I wonder if they are in locomotives?

Probably too expensive to put in passenger cars. The few lives they do save might not be worth it, or so the reasoning goes.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Didn't realize seatbelts in cabeese. I wonder if they are in locomotives?

Probably too expensive to put in passenger cars. The few lives they do save might not be worth it, or so the reasoning goes.

Yeah - the BUS driver is required to wear one, but the passengers don't have that option!

Mookie

[FJ and G]

Mookie,

Interesting comparison. In 1975 when I was a naive kid going off to boot camp at Parris Island, I took my first airplane ride. When I got seated I looked around for my parachute and was disconcerted to discover that you are not issued one. We then flew into a thunderstorm and by the time we landed I felt lucky to be alive. Parachutes are OK for military jet pilots but would be too expensive for passengers (along with ejection seats). Perhaps one large parachute (or a tri-chute) to lower the plane like the old space program capsules?

Anyway, getting back to trains, I don't think a seatbelt would help the engineer of the VRE trains (which go to Union Station backwards in the morning). The engineer sits right up front and if a car or truck ever stopped in the tracks at the crossing, he'd be toast.

I don't know why seatbelts are not offered in trains or in buses--esp. school buses. We teach our kids to buckle up but then we make exceptions to the rule.

Maybe I'm making too much of this issue, but the findings as reported in WP newspaper (as I mentioned above) made me sit up and think.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Mookie,

Interesting comparison. In 1975 when I was a naive kid going off to boot camp at Parris Island, I took my first airplane ride. When I got seated I looked around for my parachute and was disconcerted to discover that you are not issued one. We then flew into a thunderstorm and by the time we landed I felt lucky to be alive. Parachutes are OK for military jet pilots but would be too expensive for passengers (along with ejection seats). Perhaps one large parachute (or a tri-chute) to lower the plane like the old space program capsules?

Anyway, getting back to trains, I don't think a seatbelt would help the engineer of the VRE trains (which go to Union Station backwards in the morning). The engineer sits right up front and if a car or truck ever stopped in the tracks at the crossing, he'd be toast.

I don't know why seatbelts are not offered in trains or in buses--esp. school buses. We teach our kids to buckle up but then we make exceptions to the rule.

Maybe I'm making too much of this issue, but the findings as reported in WP newspaper (as I mentioned above) made me sit up and think.

Stick around and watch for Modelcar and Mookie discussing the disappearance/ misplacing of common sense today!

Mookie

[dharmon]

[Parachutes are OK for military jet pilots but would be too expensive for passengers (along with ejection seats). Perhaps one large parachute (or a tri-chute) to lower the plane like the old space program capsules?

Ejection seats are very costly and weigh alot. The military has a lot of accidents with them every year. They are pinned before the pilot leaves the seat and not removed until he's in it and strapped in. Parachutes are costly too (purchase and upkeep...they have a shelf life before they must be repacked) and dangerous for the unskilled. Bad news for mom and the lap child who would have to bailout of a plane, plus passenger liners doors are not suited for bailing out, with the execption of some of the older 727s, DC-9/MD80s with rear access doors, a jumper would probably be killed by impact with the fuselage. NASA has been experimenting for years lookiing for a suitable method of egressing or landing a plane with a chute, but liner sized planes are just too heavy ..300plus K lbs. Several types of small experimental aircraft have spin chutes that can be deployed to break a spin and possibly take the aircraft to ground safely.

Alot of military aircraft have passenger seat facing backwards to lessen impact in the event of a crash. Probably the best bet for railway cars too. Seat belts only work if you use them, and getting a carload of commuters to buckle up would be difficult. The question is will the passengers give up the tables to set their laptops on. Probably not. And realistically, missile hazards are just as great in any impact, the laptop travelling at 60 mph is still gonna hurt.

[cabforward]

f g and j,

i missed a part of your post ..

you state,
'..the cause of the train derailment..'

'cause was tables, cutting into victims' abdomens..'

could you run that by me again? how or why did the train derail?

thanks

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Didn't realize seatbelts in cabeese. I wonder if they are in locomotives?

Probably too expensive to put in passenger cars. The few lives they do save might not be worth it, or so the reasoning goes.

Yeah - the BUS driver is required to wear one, but the passengers don't have that option!

Mookie

On my last vacation I was down in the Yucatan Penisula of Mexico climbing Mayan Pyramids. The long distance busses there HAVE seatbelts and REQUIRE you to were them, they even have a video monitor presentation similar to the airline emergency proceedure presentation you get prior to takeoff. That was the first time I'd ever seen something like that, and that was in Mexico of all places.

P.S. they show movies on the long distance busses down there just like the airlines (small TVs above the seats) got to see "Kangaroo Jack" in spanish and was surprised by how much funnier it was IN spanish.

[Mookie]

Our state requires motorcycle operators and riders to wear helmets. We are required by law to wear seatbelts in our CAR...why not on our buses, trains, etc. Airplanes have seatbelts, why not all transportation. You don't use, you lose - one way or another.

Jen

[FJ and G]

cab forward,

Glad you asked. Cause is almost as interesting as death by tables.

I misstyped. Cause of derailment was freight train going thru a yellow and then a red and slammed into the passenger train. Reason for ignoring the signal was that he was having a deep personal (not work related) with the dispatcher.

BTW, on the way in to work this morning I rode the seats which face backwards. With my poor luck, however, the train will get rear-ended by an engineer having a conversation with a dispatcher. [:D]

Actually, not that funny[:(] The vast majority of engineers/dispatchers are doing an outstanding job. And being in the cab for so long must get sort of boring. I could imagine myself trying to hook up a date with a sexy female dispatcher if I were running the train. Better hope I never become an engineer. [:D]

[clinchfieldfan]

This is the same debate that has been raging for years...on SCHOOL BUSES. My personal opinion is if the vehicle transports human cargo there should be adequate safety gear for all on board. As long as human bjeings are in control of the vehicle there will be accidents and the manufactuerers should have a responsibility to engineer their products with safety in mind, not the bottom line.

[Modelcar]

.....I'm waiting for that common sense to appear Jen and then we'll jump right in there....

[Modelcar]

...On the school buses...and it's been eons since I've been on one...I remember the seats to be very close and since there is minimum space to the one in front of a person I imagine it would be necessary to have the shoulder belt connection too to have the system be effective. Of course the lap belt would prevent a person from flying around in the bus as an accident would be happening. Sorry no train stuff in these few words.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Our state requires motorcycle operators and riders to wear helmets. We are required by law to wear seatbelts in our CAR...why not on our buses, trains, etc. Airplanes have seatbelts, why not all transportation. You don't use, you lose - one way or another.

Jen

Mookie, here in Arkansas helmets ARE NOT required. And you ought to see the potential Darwin Award winners who take advantage of it. The only good thing about all that is that I have yet to see a person riding a motorcycle talking on their cell phone.

[sooblue]

They’re mounted in their helmets. You just can't see them.[;)]

Someone made a comment about parachutes and their use. I know what an ejection above 500 mph does to a pilot. Even with a curtain or shield in front of your face. You don't look normal for a while. That is better then the alternative though.
At that speed or higher the plane, military or commercial, can break up with lightning speed.
In life nothing is a sure bet.
I remember a few years back when a gasoline pipeline ruptured in a neighborhood. The explosion caused people to run from their homes. The ones who ran out their back doors lived while the ones who ran out their front doors were consumed.

I try to be safe and I encourage my family to do things safely but you have to draw a line at some point or you will become paralyzed from fear and never enjoy the life you have.

So, I'll walk the tracks now and then. (Beside them)
I don't always wear my seat belt. (In town)
I have gone 160 mph on my cycle. (Just to see what it was like) (No windshield)
I worked as a steelworker, for a time, walking the "red iron" (NEVER AGAIN)
If you want a rush of a different sort, find a grove of young trees 20 - 30 feet in highth and climb one to near the top and swing it over to another tree......to another tree.... Etc.
Some things you do are going to be illegal. I don't know of anyone who hasn't broken the law at some point.
Some things you do should be illegal (steel working)[;)]
Being able to get up in a plane, train, or bus and walk around is something that I would want to be able to do. If an accident was so severe that a table could cut you in half what do you suppose the seat belt would do to you?[:(]
Of course this is just my opinion [:)] I don't mean to rag on anyone here.
All of us need to draw the line in their own comfort zone.
Sooblue [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Our state requires motorcycle operators and riders to wear helmets. We are required by law to wear seatbelts in our CAR...why not on our buses, trains, etc. Airplanes have seatbelts, why not all transportation. You don't use, you lose - one way or another.

Jen

Mookie, here in Arkansas helmets ARE NOT required. And you ought to see the potential Darwin Award winners who take advantage of it. The only good thing about all that is that I have yet to see a person riding a motorcycle talking on their cell phone.

[edblysard]

Texas repealed it's helmet law.
Of course, our organ donation program has helped many people who other wise would have had to wait longer.
HISD (Houston Independent School District) did a study, claimed school buses dont go fast enough to warrent the extra expense of lap belts, then followed that study with two more, one claiming that lap belts are inefficent, that the kids would slide under the belts in a accident.
The second study claimed the kids wouldnt use the belts.
They never interviewed any bus drivers.

Have driven a KZ1000LTD motorcycle into the rear end of a Chevy pick up, stopped on the highway, at 60 mph.
Helmets work!

Jumped out of a airplane, once.

Parachutes in a passenger plane of any size wouldnt work, the herd wouldnt jump in the first place, and getting them to put them on?
Not enough time anyway, when things go wrong that high up, well, unless it was on fire.
Besides, those types of planes are not designed to jump from, you wouldnt survive the impact with the body of the plane.

Common sense?

At 10000 feet, the herd would never jump, the crew would have to pu***hem out the door in the first place, half would forget to pull the D ring.

Like I said, I jumped once, on purpose, and unless the plane was on fire, I plan to ride that bad boy on in.

Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

[Mookie]

why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane? My driver was in 101st Airborne and he still doesn't know why he did it! Must be a guy thing - altho a co-worker is at home with a badly broken foot this week. She was on the roof of her house doing a science experiment with high school son - drop egg from high place and cushion it so it won't break. She forgot to let go of egg! Dr said she was lucky she only broke her foot! I say she should be nominated for PTA Mother of the year award.

Mookie

[mudchicken]

Did PTA mom achieve "terminal velocity" prior to unplanned hard landing? Ouch!

Has anybody seen the write-up of the lab report for this small experiment?

Dirty Bird

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Did PTA mom achieve "terminal velocity" prior to unplanned hard landing? Ouch!

Has anybody seen the write-up of the lab report for this small experiment?

Dirty Bird

I don't know about terminal velocity, but maybe terminal "not-so-smart!"

She was going to dr today - if it was just a heel - she will be ok - if bones in upper foot are broken she will need surgery. I can't wait to get to her - I am getting this all 2nd hand right now - but she is in for a really bad time from the

Mook! [}:)]