Can anyone help me with some technical info?

[techguy57]

I'm a newbie trying to build a current diesel engine model layout and I'm having some trouble with the research. I found the basic types of railcars in use on the AAR website but I need more specific info now. Here are some questions (although I can't possibly list them all):

-Are there standard lengths for present-day(1995 era and later) boxcars, flatcars, and gondolas? How old on average are the cars that are used for hauling?
-How often are refridgerated cars still used and for what purposes? Also how do they differ from older reefers?
-Are flat cars still used or has everyone pretty much gone to well cars?
-Is there anyway I can get railroad manifests, especially for the branches in my area?

I have lots of questions still but any help is much appreciated. Things have changed both in modeling and real life since I was building railroads 15 years ago as a kid[:)]

Thanks for your help!

Mike

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by techguy57

I'm a newbie trying to build a current diesel engine model layout and I'm having some trouble with the research. I found the basic types of railcars in use on the AAR website but I need more specific info now. Here are some questions (although I can't possibly list them all):

-Are there standard lengths for present-day(1995 era and later) boxcars, flatcars, and gondolas? How old on average are the cars that are used for hauling?
-How often are refridgerated cars still used and for what purposes? Also how do they differ from older reefers?
-Are flat cars still used or has everyone pretty much gone to well cars?
-Is there anyway I can get railroad manifests, especially for the branches in my area?

I have lots of questions still but any help is much appreciated. Things have changed both in modeling and real life since I was building railroads 15 years ago as a kid[:)]

Thanks for your help!

Mike

-Are there standard lengths for present-day(1995 era and later) boxcars, flatcars, and gondolas? How old on average are the cars that are used for hauling?

LONG. Boxes usually about 53 feet. Flats, most are center beam's about 73 feet and 60 foot bulkhead flats. Almost no "50" foot plain flats left. Gons, mostly about 65 foot mill gons, but 40 and 50 footers in specialty service such as coal.

-Is there anyway I can get railroad manifests, especially for the branches in my area?
Find the train, copy the cars numbers (us a hand held tape recorder) and guess at what's in cars that you can't see into. Also, follow the train, if you can, and note what cars go where. You can guess pretty closely what may be going into or out of that way.

Reefers -- three kinds - oldest and not longer exist outside of museums are the salt and ice reefer last used about 50 years ago. Next are the mechanical reefers, which have a diesel engine operating a freezer/heater (original heat pump). Newest are the "cryo" cryogenic cars. They work like putting dry ice in the car with the load, which must be replaced periodicaly like the salt and ice in the oldest type.

BTW, the original air-conditioning for passenger cars was salt and ice units just like the reefers.

[JoeKoh]

have you noticed some new designs in auto racks?not only are they covered now but some look like 2 are hooked together(without a coupler like a spine car) a-b units.
stay safe
joe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

have you noticed some new designs in auto racks?not only are they covered now but some look like 2 are hooked together(without a coupler like a spine car) a-b units.
stay safe
joe

I believe you are talking about the AUTOMAX cars. First time I saw one it was a complete train of them. From the distance I couldn't tell what they were and thought Metrolink or Coaster had new bi-level cars and was using BNSF power for some unknown reason. Now I see them almost everyday at the port. They are big.

[CShaveRR]

Recent production (since 2000, roughly...)

Box cars: 50'6 inside length, 60' or so, and 86'6. Virtually all of them are excess-height cars, with white areas near the roofline denoting this. Yes, skeptics, there are some new 86-foot hi-cubes out there!

Refrigerator cars: all monstrosities, high roof, about 70 feet long. Cryogenic cars are a recent developemnt, and a few of those have been built since 2000, but most of the recent production has been for mechanical reefers, with the cooling units mounted outside on the A end of the car (the end opposite that with the hand brake).

Tank cars: Various sizes for various commodities, ranging in capacity from 13000 to 34000 gallons, in length from about 44 to about 68 feet.

Gondolas: both 52'6" and 65'6" for conventional service. Coil steel cars with lengths of 42 feet (under one hood), 46 feet (two hoods), or 52'6" (conventional gons with covers).
Coal gons: almost exclusively aluminum, with capacity around 4400 cubic feet. Coupled length 53'1", standard for most rotary dumpers.

Hoppers: most, if not all built in the past few years are aluminum, with air-actuated unloading doors (fastest method of dumping) and rotary couplers (more flexibility in where they can be unloaded). Capacity is around 4300 cubic feet, and length is 53'1" (see above).

Intermodal: Recent production has been articulated well cars almost exclusively, with either three or five wells per car. Some drawbar-connected or stand-alone well cars have also been built, but few, if any, spine cars in recent years.

Flat cars: a few bulkhead flat cars for steel (lower bulkheads), lots of Center-Beam or similar cars, inside length 73 feet, and a few heavy-duty flat and depressed-center cars. A few 89-foot conventional cars for pipe loading. I'm not sure whether flat cars for auto racks have been built since 2000. The two-unit cars came a little earlier; definitely late 1990s.

Covered hoppers: few ribbed-side cars since 2000. The curved-side cars are coming from all of the major builders now, in sizes ranging from 3200 cubic feet to nearly double that.

In addition to the new cars, there are a number of older cars being rebuilt into different configurations...box cars having ventilators and heavier trucks added for woodpulp service, mechanical reefers with the same old carbodies but more efficient cooling units, and new auto racks on older flat cars.

If modern freight equipment interests you, check out the Freightcarworld and MFCL sites in Yahoogroups.

[dehusman]

Standard car sizes:
There are no "official" standard car sizes. Whatever "standard" sizes
there are are just conventions adopted by the builders based on customer
acceptance.
Gondolas generally are either 52' 6" or 65 ' inside length (IL). Usually
they have a 100 ton capacity.
Boxcars are typically 50', 60' 70' or 86' IL with a 70 or 100 ton capacity.
Flat cars come in all shapes and sizes. They vary from 53'6" common
flatcars to 5 pack well or spine cars that can be about 300 ft long.

Ages of fleet:
Probably average age of 15-20 years, has been getting older over the last
several years as RR's and industries cut back on new car orders.

Reefers:
There are three basic types of reefers : ice cooled, mechanical and
cryogenic. Ice reefers died out in the late 60's. Mechanical reefers ran
from the 40's until the present. Cryogenic cars are fairly new, started
using them over the last 10 years or so.
Ice reefers use crushed or block ice mixed with salt in bunkers on the ends
to cool the cars down to almost freezing.
Mechanical reefers use a mechanical regrigeration unit much like your home
refrigerator, only driven by a diesel engine on the car. Recently many of
them have been rebuilt with small, more efficient refrigerators. The cars
look like they don't have a mechanical unit, but they do.
Cryogenic reefers are more kin to super insulated boxcars. They are so
well insulated that the temperature only rises a couple degrees over the
course of the rail trip. The load essentially cools itself. Some are
cooled by dry ice.
Reefers carry mostly food products (fruit, potatoes, onions, wine,
vegetables, frozen food, etc).

Are flat cars still used:
There are several types of flatcars so you have to identify which group you
are talking about.
Plain flat cars are still used, mostly for machinery or large items (poles,
pipe, steel product, armored personel carriers, bulldozers, etc). They
range from 53'6" to 89' long and generally have a capacity of 70 to 100
tons.
Bulkhead flatcars are used for shiftable loads such as lumber, building
materials, pipe, steel plate, etc. They are in the 60-70 ft range.
Bulkhead flats evolved into centerbeam cars, which are stronger, lighter
and more stable than regular bulkhead flats. Centerbeams almost always
carry building materials (lumber, plywood, drywall, etc).
Intermodal equipment is a whole 'nother animal. There are 50' foot single
platform cars , many rebuilt from old boxcars. 89' piggyback flats are
still used, but are rarer. Many have been connected by a drawbar to form a
2 platform car that will hold 3 trailers. Spine cars are used for trailers
and within the last 5 years or so more well cars are equipped with trailer
hitches and platforms in the wells to handle trailers.

Consists:
Manifests or consists are generally not available to the public, they are
considered proprietary information. Unless a RR employee gives you an old
copy you probably won't find too many examples.

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

have you noticed some new designs in auto racks?not only are they covered now but some look like 2 are hooked together(without a coupler like a spine car) a-b units.
stay safe
joe

I believe you are talking about the AUTOMAX cars. First time I saw one it was a complete train of them. From the distance I couldn't tell what they were and thought Metrolink or Coaster had new bi-level cars and was using BNSF power for some unknown reason. Now I see them almost everyday at the port. They are big.

I have seen them with bnsf and kcs reporting marks on csx through Defiance.
thanks for the info[:)]
stay safe
Joe

[techguy57]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

have you noticed some new designs in auto racks?not only are they covered now but some look like 2 are hooked together(without a coupler like a spine car) a-b units.
stay safe
joe

The AUTOMAX cars are crazy! I have some family who live near the Naperville (Chicago area) yard and I've seen some with BNSF markings. I read that they were built specifically to haul SUVs. Speaking of autoracks thought you might like this link:
http://chicago.railfan.net/cgi/photos.pl/?page=Autorack_oops

This is what happens when you try to fit a tri-level auto rack under a bridge with 17' of clearance. A proud day for CSX to be sure.

techguy

Thanks to all for the info!

[Anonymous]

OUCH THAT'LL LEAVE A MARK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find it hard to beleve that the hogger couldn't feal anything.

[dharmon]

This is what happens when you try to fit a tri-level auto rack under a bridge with 17' of clearance. A proud day for CSX to be sure.

techguy

Coming soon to a dealer near you....the 2004 Chevrolet C1500 Suburban Convertable.

[Mookie]

ok - Mookie has had a chance to go peek at this. Now, of course, a question....
Who is ultimately responsible? Surely someone knew before the train ever moved an inch that there would be a clearance problem. Who would that be? And.....if they got to the structure and the engineer and conductor knew they wouldn't clear the overpass, and they stopped - what would be procedure from there? Would they have to cut out the taller cars and reroute them? What a waste of time. Why wouldn't you see the problem beforehand and take care of it well before the low clearance?

Puzzled Mookie (out looking for that common sense again!)

[techguy57]

About the AUTOMAX cars, check this out:
http://www.qstation.org/automax/automax.html

Enjoy!

Mike

[Anonymous]

OK, you pulled me out of the shadows with this one.

First let me introduce myself by saying I'm a railfan 'wannabe' and don't get much of an opportunity to railfan. but that is slowly changing.

Now for the reason of my post. I find the portion of this thread quite interesting since I work for the company that manufacturers the RoadRailers (they don't like us mentioning the company name in forums and chat rooms).[?] Back around '96 I beleive, we where approached to develop a boxcar design to mimic the AutoRailer. The prime aspects being the ability to close couple, like the RoadRailers, and be lightweight. We built 2 prototypes, and after what seamed like years of testing, turned over the designs to Thrall. Shortly after, I moved from the engineering dept to IS and was out of the loop, so I never knew how this materialized. I realize the cars in the link are not Thrall's, but it is still nice to see the result.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 17tireman

OK, you pulled me out of the shadows with this one.

First let me introduce myself by saying I'm a railfan 'wannabe' and don't get much of an opportunity to railfan. but that is slowly changing.

Now for the reason of my post. I find the portion of this thread quite interesting since I work for the company that manufacturers the RoadRailers (they don't like us mentioning the company name in forums and chat rooms).[?] Back around '96 I beleive, we where approached to develop a boxcar design to mimic the AutoRailer. The prime aspects being the ability to close couple, like the RoadRailers, and be lightweight. We built 2 prototypes, and after what seamed like years of testing, turned over the designs to Thrall. Shortly after, I moved from the engineering dept to IS and was out of the loop, so I never knew how this materialized. I realize the cars in the link are not Thrall's, but it is still nice to see the result.

Welcome to the sunshine. We always like new people on here, if we can keep from scaring the daylights out of them!

Mook