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The Biodiesel Update

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:18 AM

These fuels traded and sold might not be used by the railroads, but they are transported by railcar.

Click on the web link and you will see the ECO-ENERGY Tank Cars.

http://www.eco-energyinc.com/

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:37 PM

This is a company that moves its products by rail.

They have a fleet of long tank cars.

ABENGOA BIOENERGY 

www.abengoabioenergy.com/

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Posted by rvos1979 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:50 PM
At this years World Dairy Expo in Madison, there was a startup company marketing a biodiesel processor that could make a 300 gallon batch at once. Most current units for home sale are 40 gallon capacity.

The last few months I have been running a B5 biodiesel blend in my Dodge Ram Cummins Diesel, performance is about the same, I have noticed my fuel economy has improved by about one mile per gallon. Price is about the same, or slightly cheaper.
My only complaint is that the gas stations do not advertise biodiesel for sale, it is marked on the pump, but not on the sign out front.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:56 PM

B. T. U. for B. T. U. what gain is there with biodiesel? I have heard ethanol from corn is actually a slight loss.

Figure in the energy to plant, harvest, transport and process grain into diesel. Assuming soybeans are the grain base, petroleum based nitrogen fertilizer should not be an issue as it is with corn.

Waste cooking oils should not be counted, other than the slight processing involved. These are actually an otherwise wasted by product. Waste cooking oils will make hardly a dent in the total demand for diesel.

Biofuels are already being cited as reducing grain supplies on hand. This will drive up the price of grain. Feeding us is about the only thing that will interrupt the love affair with the automobile. At what point will supply drive the use of grain back to foodstuffs?

Whatever happened to the self contained, nuclear electric locomotive?

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:28 PM

The Mount Washington Cog Railway will be using Biodiesel.

This is according to a story on the newswire.

The next issue of TRAINS should have more details.

Andrew

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Posted by ericsp on Friday, September 29, 2006 10:45 PM
 edblysard wrote:

Try the middle of August, riding a tank car that is over full of old used cooking oil, with it sloshing out the manway cover every time the car starts or stops moving.

Ummm, nothing like smelling creosote and burnt dead french fries first thing in the morning to get your appetite working, not to mention giving your toe path a brand new coating of oil and slimy grease.

Did I mention the flies and mosquitoes love the stuff?

Did I mention that, if you get it on your clothes, you have to throw them away, because no matter how many times you wash them, the smell and stain will not come out, and you can’t wash them with anything else, because the smell will get on the other clothes?

I once walked over a mile ahead of a shove with the leading end having a cut of these cars, because the cars were all covered in the stuff, and if you did managed to get on one with out slipping and breaking your leg, the flies and skeeters would eat you alive.

South Dakota must have one heck of a rendering plant and processing center, we get around two hundred of these things every week from there, not to mention the tallow cars full of edible and inedible animal fat.

And what the heck is “Technical Animal Tallow”?

Fat from computer smart cows?

 ericsp wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I don't know that restaraunts throw grease away.  Back in my younger days working in a couple of restaraunts they would make a point of saving every once of used grease they could.....turns out a company would come by every week and pump out the grease traps and pay money to do it.  Before the whole bio-diesel thing I guess there are a bunch of other uses for old grease and fry oil.  It sure stank, though, whatever they used it for.  I still get sick in McDonald's. 

 

A few months ago I drove by a restaurant where they had spilled a large quantity of that grease while pumping it into the truck. It was all over the parking lot, and it smelled incredibly bad. I am glad I did not just eat nor was I about to.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_01/9cfr351_01.html

Definition of Technical Animal Fat (PDF)

I once saw part of a cow, I think, fall out of an overloaded dump that was probably heading to a rendering plant.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, September 29, 2006 8:52 PM

  The Boone & Scenic Valley RR has used biodiesel for a few years.  They seem to be satisfied with it.

Jeff 

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Posted by Gambi80 on Friday, September 29, 2006 6:00 PM
 edblysard wrote:

Yup,

We had a tank car full of old cooking oil that had the steam pipes inside it rot away from age…

Because you don’t cap the inlet or outlet on the steam heating pipes, when our switch crew kicked the car, the pipe inside the tank broke or ruptured.

Over half of the contents of the car poured out in a matter of minutes.

The EPA made us remove the ballast, ties, and in some places over 12 inches of roadbed material, and have it hauled away in dumpsters that were tarped and labeled hazardous waste.

Seems if this stuff gets in a watershed or aquifer, it can cause all kinds of problems, not the least of which is it can kill aquatic plant life.

If it is allowed to stay in a stream or lake, it will “sheet out” and can block the sunlight from reaching the bottom plants…you get pretty big fish kills and big algae beds will form, robbing the oxygen from the water.

And if it is allowed to remain in, say soil, it disrupts the normal organic life, attracts predatory insects, and in some instances, can kill birds that ingest the insects that are feeding on the spilled oil.

Like the DDT problem, where the toxin was in the insects the birds fed on, and then it caused the thinning of the bird egg shells, ingesting the insects that are feeding on the oil introduces the oil into the birds system, and they are not designed to ingest most of the fats in the oil.

It disrupts their digestive process, and they end up starving to death.

 

Because Houston is on a migratory bird flight path, the EPA is pretty tough on any spill of organic materials.

We had a side swipe that tore open a tank car full of corn sweetener, and they made us remove just as much of the ballast and roadbed material as they could.

A Class 1 crew shoved a track blind and put a hopper of plastic pellets into the side of the tank car…dumped the hopper on its side, spilled the pellets everywhere, and then drenched the whole mess with the corn sweetener.

Because the bugs all went nuts over the sweetener, the sea gulls and other birds were having a feast of sorts, but were also ingesting the pellets.

Not something the EPA smiles on.

 

We got to wash and reuse the ballast in both cases, but the dirt and ties had to go to an EPA approved land fill for proper disposal.

And we have two underground streams running across the yard; they discharge directly into Buffalo Bayou.

Both streams now have EPA monitors at their discharge pipes to check for the presence of the cooking oil.

Just imagine a wrecked boxcar full of Alka-Seltzer and a bunch of sea gulls feeding on it. 

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Posted by jclass on Friday, September 29, 2006 3:35 PM

Could restaurant grease/oil be used in this process?

http://www.changingworldtech.com/information_center/index.asp?id=5

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Posted by adrianspeeder on Friday, September 29, 2006 9:13 AM
Biodiesel will degrade rubber seals of older diesels for some reason, but other than that no modifications and doesn't burn any worse at cold temps then dinodiesel which still requres an additive to prevent gelling.

I've burned about 4 tanks of straight bio, but it still is costly as dino, so I've been forced to run a 50/50 mix of kerosene and diesel to keep the costs within budget.  Smokes a little blue when layin on the coal, but still able to put the ricers in their place.



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Posted by MStLfan on Friday, September 29, 2006 8:31 AM
 TomDiehl wrote:
 Lee Koch wrote:

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste!

"Enviornmentally dangerous waste???" And we EAT this stuff???? Shock [:O]

Hey Tom,

This is EuropeWink [;)]. Here we even treat the waste rock from coal mining in Germany as a dangerous thing not to be trusted Shock [:O]. Here in the Netherlands the port authority of Rotterdam had to sue our national environmental protection agency just to use that rock for erosion protection of the harbor bottoms. Luckily the judge didn't buy the agency theory since it had come just out of the ground from a depth of several hundred meters and it was not then classified as dangerous material! All because it was named "waste" rock.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

 

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by edblysard on Friday, September 29, 2006 8:31 AM

Yup,

We had a tank car full of old cooking oil that had the steam pipes inside it rot away from age…

Because you don’t cap the inlet or outlet on the steam heating pipes, when our switch crew kicked the car, the pipe inside the tank broke or ruptured.

Over half of the contents of the car poured out in a matter of minutes.

The EPA made us remove the ballast, ties, and in some places over 12 inches of roadbed material, and have it hauled away in dumpsters that were tarped and labeled hazardous waste.

Seems if this stuff gets in a watershed or aquifer, it can cause all kinds of problems, not the least of which is it can kill aquatic plant life.

If it is allowed to stay in a stream or lake, it will “sheet out” and can block the sunlight from reaching the bottom plants…you get pretty big fish kills and big algae beds will form, robbing the oxygen from the water.

And if it is allowed to remain in, say soil, it disrupts the normal organic life, attracts predatory insects, and in some instances, can kill birds that ingest the insects that are feeding on the spilled oil.

Like the DDT problem, where the toxin was in the insects the birds fed on, and then it caused the thinning of the bird egg shells, ingesting the insects that are feeding on the oil introduces the oil into the birds system, and they are not designed to ingest most of the fats in the oil.

It disrupts their digestive process, and they end up starving to death.

 

Because Houston is on a migratory bird flight path, the EPA is pretty tough on any spill of organic materials.

We had a side swipe that tore open a tank car full of corn sweetener, and they made us remove just as much of the ballast and roadbed material as they could.

A Class 1 crew shoved a track blind and put a hopper of plastic pellets into the side of the tank car…dumped the hopper on its side, spilled the pellets everywhere, and then drenched the whole mess with the corn sweetener.

Because the bugs all went nuts over the sweetener, the sea gulls and other birds were having a feast of sorts, but were also ingesting the pellets.

Not something the EPA smiles on.

 

We got to wash and reuse the ballast in both cases, but the dirt and ties had to go to an EPA approved land fill for proper disposal.

And we have two underground streams running across the yard; they discharge directly into Buffalo Bayou.

Both streams now have EPA monitors at their discharge pipes to check for the presence of the cooking oil.

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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, September 29, 2006 7:50 AM
 Lee Koch wrote:

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste!

"Enviornmentally dangerous waste???" And we EAT this stuff???? Shock [:O]

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Posted by MStLfan on Friday, September 29, 2006 6:07 AM
 Tulyar15 wrote:

 Lee Koch wrote:

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste! Just picture a railroad offering to "dispose" of all that grease at little or no cost to the fast food chains. Then they could recycle it to fuel their engines. Sounds like a real money saver to me, and it's environmentally friendly, to boot!

 

I don't know of any railroads that do this, but I do know an English potato farmer who also makes his own brand of potato crisp. He runs all his tractors and trucks on the waste cooking that he's used to fry his potatoes. I think the Corris Railway in Wales may run their diesel locos on one sort of bio diesel or another. The Ffestiniog Railway, also in Wales, runs its steam locos on a mix of diesel and waste engine oil. I believe the Harz narrow gauge railway in Germany runs its steam locos on bio-diesel.

If I remember correctly the Borkumer Kleinbahn uses biodiesel for its locomotives.

Also, I read that you can use oil made from sunflower seeds. Makes your car smell like you have been frying fries!

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by edblysard on Friday, September 29, 2006 5:46 AM

Try the middle of August, riding a tank car that is over full of old used cooking oil, with it sloshing out the manway cover every time the car starts or stops moving.

Ummm, nothing like smelling creosote and burnt dead french fries first thing in the morning to get your appetite working, not to mention giving your toe path a brand new coating of oil and slimy grease.

Did I mention the flies and mosquitoes love the stuff?

Did I mention that, if you get it on your clothes, you have to throw them away, because no matter how many times you wash them, the smell and stain will not come out, and you can’t wash them with anything else, because the smell will get on the other clothes?

I once walked over a mile ahead of a shove with the leading end having a cut of these cars, because the cars were all covered in the stuff, and if you did managed to get on one with out slipping and breaking your leg, the flies and skeeters would eat you alive.

South Dakota must have one heck of a rendering plant and processing center, we get around two hundred of these things every week from there, not to mention the tallow cars full of edible and inedible animal fat.

And what the heck is “Technical Animal Tallow”?

Fat from computer smart cows?

 ericsp wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I don't know that restaraunts throw grease away.  Back in my younger days working in a couple of restaraunts they would make a point of saving every once of used grease they could.....turns out a company would come by every week and pump out the grease traps and pay money to do it.  Before the whole bio-diesel thing I guess there are a bunch of other uses for old grease and fry oil.  It sure stank, though, whatever they used it for.  I still get sick in McDonald's. 

 

A few months ago I drove by a restaurant where they had spilled a large quantity of that grease while pumping it into the truck. It was all over the parking lot, and it smelled incredibly bad. I am glad I did not just eat nor was I about to.

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Posted by Tulyar15 on Friday, September 29, 2006 1:53 AM

 Lee Koch wrote:

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste! Just picture a railroad offering to "dispose" of all that grease at little or no cost to the fast food chains. Then they could recycle it to fuel their engines. Sounds like a real money saver to me, and it's environmentally friendly, to boot!

 

I don't know of any railroads that do this, but I do know an English potato farmer who also makes his own brand of potato crisp. He runs all his tractors and trucks on the waste cooking that he's used to fry his potatoes. I think the Corris Railway in Wales may run their diesel locos on one sort of bio diesel or another. The Ffestiniog Railway, also in Wales, runs its steam locos on a mix of diesel and waste engine oil. I believe the Harz narrow gauge railway in Germany runs its steam locos on bio-diesel.

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Posted by kenneo on Friday, September 29, 2006 1:37 AM
 Lee Koch wrote:

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste! Just picture a railroad offering to "dispose" of all that grease at little or no cost to the fast food chains. Then they could recycle it to fuel their engines. Sounds like a real money saver to me, and it's environmentally friendly, to boot!

In Oregon, there is quite a cottage industry of making home bio-diesel making kits and of people then buying used oil of most any kind and making it into bio-diesel for their home use.  There have been a couple of house fires due to botching the process and it burnt the buildings to the foundation.  The FD said that once that stuff got to burning, they have not been able to put it out - not even foam would work.

When the restaurents run out of used oil, these home brew folks go and purchase Canola Oil (aka Rape Seed) fresh from the press. 

Coffee grounds from the coffee places is also hot as an organic soil additive.  Needs no composting.

Eric
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Posted by ericsp on Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:01 PM
 solzrules wrote:

I don't know that restaraunts throw grease away.  Back in my younger days working in a couple of restaraunts they would make a point of saving every once of used grease they could.....turns out a company would come by every week and pump out the grease traps and pay money to do it.  Before the whole bio-diesel thing I guess there are a bunch of other uses for old grease and fry oil.  It sure stank, though, whatever they used it for.  I still get sick in McDonald's. 

 

A few months ago I drove by a restaurant where they had spilled a large quantity of that grease while pumping it into the truck. It was all over the parking lot, and it smelled incredibly bad. I am glad I did not just eat nor was I about to.

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Posted by solzrules on Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:36 PM
 Lee Koch wrote:
 kenneo wrote:
 Andrew Falconer wrote:

This topic would be worth a small column each month in TRAINS:

The Biodiesel Update

Every time someone has a Biodiesel report they can put it on the TRAINS Forum.

Just before the deadline all the posts can be checked and the best reports can be put in The Biodiesel Update column.

Everyone needs a reminder that Biodiesel exists and is the easiest to produce alternative to oil based fuels.

Andrew

AND, it can be used in a diesel motor with no modification to either the fuel or the motor.

Just pull up to the pump, "Fill 'er'up", and go.

That is not quite accurate. Today's low emmision diesel engines require some minor modifications in order to safely burn bio-diesel. Because of it's chemical properties, bio-diesel seems to react aggressively with many of the gaskets, in particular in the fuel pump. But these modifications are easy to make and low-cost.

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste! Just picture a railroad offering to "dispose" of all that grease at little or no cost to the fast food chains. Then they could recycle it to fuel their engines. Sounds like a real money saver to me, and it's environmentally friendly, to boot!

I don't know that restaraunts throw grease away.  Back in my younger days working in a couple of restaraunts they would make a point of saving every once of used grease they could.....turns out a company would come by every week and pump out the grease traps and pay money to do it.  Before the whole bio-diesel thing I guess there are a bunch of other uses for old grease and fry oil.  It sure stank, though, whatever they used it for.  I still get sick in McDonald's. 

It IS kind of wierd thinking of Mickey D's as a fuel source (other than heartburn).

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by UPTRAIN on Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:08 PM
There is some gasket work but not engine changeout or something like that, nothing like converting a unit to LNG or anything.

Pump

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Posted by jclass on Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:47 PM

Here's a study appearing on the trade association website:

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20040401_gen334.pdf

 

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Posted by JSGreen on Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:58 PM
isnt there an issue with low temperature operations with Bio D?Sad [:(]
...I may have a one track mind, but at least it's not Narrow (gauge) Wink.....
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Posted by Flint Hills Tex on Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:53 PM
 kenneo wrote:
 Andrew Falconer wrote:

This topic would be worth a small column each month in TRAINS:

The Biodiesel Update

Every time someone has a Biodiesel report they can put it on the TRAINS Forum.

Just before the deadline all the posts can be checked and the best reports can be put in The Biodiesel Update column.

Everyone needs a reminder that Biodiesel exists and is the easiest to produce alternative to oil based fuels.

Andrew

AND, it can be used in a diesel motor with no modification to either the fuel or the motor.

Just pull up to the pump, "Fill 'er'up", and go.

That is not quite accurate. Today's low emmision diesel engines require some minor modifications in order to safely burn bio-diesel. Because of it's chemical properties, bio-diesel seems to react aggressively with many of the gaskets, in particular in the fuel pump. But these modifications are easy to make and low-cost.

Other than that, does any body know if any railroads use bio-diesel? I've heard that you could theoretically recycle the frying oil used at fast-food restaurants to produce bio-diesel. That sure would beat disposing of it as an environmentally dangerous waste! Just picture a railroad offering to "dispose" of all that grease at little or no cost to the fast food chains. Then they could recycle it to fuel their engines. Sounds like a real money saver to me, and it's environmentally friendly, to boot!

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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:08 PM
 Andrew Falconer wrote:

This topic would be worth a small column each month in TRAINS:

The Biodiesel Update

Every time someone has a Biodiesel report they can put it on the TRAINS Forum.

Just before the deadline all the posts can be checked and the best reports can be put in The Biodiesel Update column.

Everyone needs a reminder that Biodiesel exists and is the easiest to produce alternative to oil based fuels.

Andrew

AND, it can be used in a diesel motor with no modification to either the fuel or the motor.

Just pull up to the pump, "Fill 'er'up", and go.

Eric
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The Biodiesel Update
Posted by Andrew Falconer on Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:06 AM

This topic would be worth a small column each month in TRAINS:

The Biodiesel Update

Every time someone has a Biodiesel report they can put it on the TRAINS Forum.

Just before the deadline all the posts can be checked and the best reports can be put in The Biodiesel Update column.

Everyone needs a reminder that Biodiesel exists and is the easiest to produce alternative to oil based fuels.

Andrew

Andrew

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