October 2003 Trains Magazine

[Bergie]

What was your favorite feature story from the October 2003 issue of Trains Magazine? Please vote then share your comments below.

Polls on Trains.com are not scientific and reflect only the opinions of the users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, the readers of our magazines, nor the public as a whole. Bottom line, our polls are meant for fun and to stimulate conversation amongst our forum users.

[Anonymous]

You know every month you ask, I share my comments, but worst of all, the fact that no body could care less about what I have to say or anyhting like that. You know, when i post my comments, i kinda would HOPE they are used for the betterment of the magazine.. I'm not saying that the magazine is terrible, in fact it's the best train magazine there is on the market, However the price is almost highway robbery. 8 bucks for a magazine of what.. 100 pages? i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say 175 pages. Thats almost armed Robbery! there should be laws against that.. But like last month.. i said the same thing and I think You skipped over that part, so i'll say it again.. Remeber the figures, where it coast 5 dollars difference to subscribe and to buy it at the newstand? I'll try writing that agaian. Maybe this time it might work!!!

You wanted my comments you got them, i have a feeling i've wasted a lot of energy typing them, because in my opening line, i get the feeling.. you couldn't care less!! I was always taught "If you don't care, don't ask" So take 2, let's hope i get an aknowledgement from an exectuve in the Trains.com comitee acknowleging the the Canadian price for a copy of the magazine, is a "little" Steep.

Because Erik, you must think that i am a stark raving mad lunatic, No one I work with will purchase your magazine due to the extremely elevated prices.. I can come up with a list of names if you want, i'd say it's around 20-30 people, Just so that you can truly see i'm "Not the only one"
Yours truly,
Kevin Ilaqua.

Please feel free to e-mail me, or anything like that. just press the "E-Mail" button..

[Anonymous]

I have to admit the first thing I look for in every issue of Trains magazine is articles about Amtrak. The Magazine is always current of what's happening to the service.

Mike Duprey

[JoeKoh]

I liked the alco article and the blueprints.it gives me a map if we decided to take a roadtrip.
stay safe
Joe

[fish1467]

My favorite articles involve stories about and by people involved in railroading. Railroading to me is an action adventure involving human activity and big machines and structures.

As far as the cost of the magazine, I don't find the subscription price out of hand.

[Modelcar]

....I've been reading TRAINS mag. for many, many years....I suppose I should say I enjoy photographs of any railroad subject...Especially enjoy the articles of the big Union Stations [and photos], that were main stream some years ago....Some articles in the past of the construction of such and more were supreme....Enjoy articles such as the reopening of routes over the rockies in recent years...and of course photos showing work necessary to do such. Would even enjoy some articles of ROW's now abandoned that were high profile in recent past...[Of course photos]. Remember the famous South Penn effort across the Pennsylvania mountains 100 years plus ago....Lots of it still visible across the hillsides of Pennsylvania...Actually the Pennsylvania Turnpike [the original portion], followed much of the old S P survey...all interesting railroad history...I could go on but these are just some of my thoughts....One more thing....I like articles, photos and features on Amtrak too....It's all we have in the long haul passenger business....

[holland]

the whole magazine is greattttttttttttttttttttttttt

[aussiesteve]

I cannot vote yet as I wont see the magazine on the newstand over here until the end of the month, October that is.[8D]

[Anonymous]

It's hard to pick one as the whole magazine is usually great reading and information. I am a little upset because you forced me to pick one over the other. I enjoy reading the magazine and all the articles. I do however agree somewhat with Kevin over the Canadian price. I realize the difference in the monetary system and the cost of postage plays a large part of the price. I guess that's what we have to pay to live in a great country

kevin

[nkp779]

I like the one on Alcos. I wished they had identified the men on the engine crossing Erie Junction. With it being in my home town. Just courious as to who they may be and If I may have know them.

[Anonymous]

The TRAINS staff could have devoted the entire magazine to "In Service to a Nation; Men of the Southern", and I would have been delighted. As one who loves "human interest" stories related to railroading, this was definitely one of my all time favorites.[:D]

[Anonymous]

Just one question.If a diesel loco has a diesel motor and generator to generate its own power.plus a huge fuel tank wich adds to the weight for traction.whats inside a electric loco for them to be so big.and what do they do for traction..

[philg]

Your magazine is getting worse as time goes on. It isn't the just fact that the subscription price is out of control, the reduced content as compared to the past. It's the quality overall!
I would suggest your sales type get off their chairs and get some appropriate advertising to help put the kids of you and your staff through college and stop letting the subscribers pay the freight, so to speak. It does work for other magazines where subscriptions are $30 for 3 years. Yes there are advertisements but the advertisements are interesting too if they fit the readership.and less than a 3rd of the content. Maybe your trying to "hammer" your potential advertisers, too. No wonder there are limited advertisers. If you have more advertisers, you can charge less for advertising and--for subscriptions. There's a concept! Unless you're trying to become multi-millionaires over night.
The stories are not as interesting as in past years either. Just like there are lots of places to see in the North American Continent, never mind going to east overshoe Africa. There are just as many railroad subjects to cover in North America not just fictional stories. I have to believe there places and things to cover that have more to offer than trying to make Hutchinson, KS sound like Chicago. Not that it's not a nice little town in middle America, please--.
Get to work! You've got about another 2 years (sucker) before I get to renew my subscription. I'll be watching. By then, the renwal ought to be $200, if things keep going the way they are currently going.
philg

[Anonymous]

REALLY!

I collected some prices for you all, i don't subscribe to them aLL, but here are some prices for everyone to look at

Road and Track magazine. 4.99 CDN for 156 pages
Motor Trend: 4.99 CDN for 156 pages
Import tuner: 5.99 CDN for ~ 220 pages
Performence Auto and sound 5.99 CDN for 371 pages, 20 bucks to subscribe for 1 year
UMM 122 pages for 4.25 , 10 issues for 10 bucks to subscribe
Maxim Blender: 4.99 CDN for 156 pages, 17. 97 Us funds for 1 year to subscribe
Trains magazine 6.95 CDN for 90 pages, 70 bucks CDN to subscribe anually..

Now something IS WRONG with that price.. time for someone to take immediate action.
Erik you started this topic, and i have yet to see a follow up... are you waiting for someone to Lie and say something nice about the price so you can throw your commentary in?

This also brings into Question about the executives on the board of TRAINS, no one i know will purchase it due to the insane price., and 2 other members have voiced their concerns over the price.. yet why havn't the executives tuned into this topic, let alone this fact and make an attempt to resolve it?

[Anonymous]

Hey Bergie,

I voted for the Amtrak story, found it very interesting and enlightening on the overall Amtrak picture. But I enjoyed all of the articles ini the Oct. issue.

I do agree with Kevin though, the price is a bit steep up North here. That's why I don't subscribe, I pick and choose the issues I will purchase.

Jeff

[Bergie]

Kevin, let me shed a little light on your comments. Now remember, it's just me, no one of significance speaking. [:D]

First, let me address some of your pricing concerns. Trains Magazine at $6.95 Canadian equals $5.18 US (as of today, October 2, 2003). The US cover price is $4.95, roughly the same cost. A subscription to Trains for a Canadian is $54, not $70. $54 Canadian is only $40.28 US. That's actually cheaper than the $42.95 US sub price. Not bad considering GST and added postage expenses. [;)]

Next, comparing a niche title like Trains to a large magazine like Road and Track or Motor Trend isn't comparing apples to apples. The potentail universe of readers for those magazines is much larger than Trains. Also, without checking, I would assume they have much larger readership and I know for a fact that their advertising universe is much greater than Trains'. Look at the ads in those magazines. Large ads from auto manufacturers, booze, cigarettes, automotive parts. Even if you're comparing us to a niche like performance auto and sound... think about their advertising. I've never seen it, but I have to assume that they're selling a ton of aftermarket auto parts (and stereo components) to kids who want to convert their moms Civic into a dirt-bike-sounding "performance" vehicle. Do you know how huge that market is? Trains sells videos, artwork, excursion trips, etc. Compare the size of our markets.

To philg's comments... I sold advertising for our company for several years before moving over to Trains.com. Tell our sales types to get off their chairs and get some appropriate advertising? Sorry, it's not that easy when you're talking about a niche magazine. You can't go after anyone you want. Think about our potential universe. Think about it for a while. What comes to mind as an appropriate ad for Trains as compared to a consumer magazine that you suggest that sells for $30 for 3 years? Those are obvisously magazines with huge consumer appeal. Not niche magazines. The advertising universe for Trains is only so big, especially when we don't accept certain types of advertising. We don't run booze, cigarette, credit card, mortgage, etc. ads because we know it's not what our readers want to see. Our ads must have a tie with our magazine's content. That's long been the case with all Kalmbach magazines. I've seen ads turned down because they don't relate to our title. I'd hardly say turning down money from a potential advertising is trying to become a multi-millionaire overnight.

We cannot be compared to large consumer magazines with hundreds of thousands of readers. We're a niche. You don't see it at the local grocery store check-out aisle. Ford isn't paying tens of thousands of dollars for multiple page ads. Why? Because they want to hit mass markets. Trains is not one of those.

As for content going down hill, I have to agree to disagree. The map of the month and trackside guides are two of the best features I've seen in Trains magazine in the past 10 years. Take a look at one of those trackside guides. There's a TON of content packed in there. Look at the maps... they take a lot of time and effort to produce. A magazine can't be everything to everybody, but to say it's getting worse seems a little extreme to me.

Again, not the official KPC statement, just your friendly content manager. [:D]

Erik

[Anonymous]

FIFTY-FOUR DOLLARS Canadian a year?

"Vol-a-main-armé" as the french like to cvall it, that means.. thats' Armed robbery! for a tiddley magazine like that, although great content.. 12 issues of 90 pafges does not add up to 54 dollars. plus mailing fees, plus cheques woritten or money order, i'd be LUCK to speand less then 60 bucks..

you can call me a liar for 10 bucks.

Rolling stone is 35 Dollar a year, published twice a month, 200 pages each issue

[Modelcar]

Erik...I think you made a reasonable case for the pricing of the mag....Of course we all want our "stuff" as inexpensive as we can get it but the way you explain it seems reasonable. For me, if they'll just make every effort to keep the quanity and quality of the photos coming I will be pretty well satisfied....

[Bergie]

Again, comparing Trains Magazine to a mass market, universal appeal magazine like Rolling Stone is not comparing apples to apples. Look at their circulation. Look at their number of ad pages. Look at their advertisers. Do you see anything there in common with Trains magazine? [?] More readers, more advertising, more major advertisers, etc. The more you produce, the cheaper it gets.

We're talking Universal Studios and MGM versus Sunday River Productions and Pentrex. How many people see productions from Universal Studios and MGM versus Sunday River Productions and Pentrex. How many ad pages must those major movie studios run per year in Rolling Stone to promote their movies? How much do they spend in advertising? Rolling Stone's large audience of key readers (within the movies studios desired demographic) help fetch high price ads. How many people, in return, see the movie ad in Rolling Stone and then go see the movie... thus starting the cycle all over again? When was the last time one of your friends said they were going to the movies to see Cabride from Kansas City to Chicago? Railroading is a niche. Music, television, movies, and pop culture - the topics Rolling Stone covers - are not. There are probably 100 readers of Rolling Stone compared to every one reader or Trains.

Everything is different, Kevin. It's good old fashion economy of scale. It's relative whether you're building and selling automobiles, or freight cars, or magazines.

Armed robbery? There's an old saying: price is only an issue in the absence of value. I'd rather pay $54 (Canadian) for Trains than $35C for Rolling Stone because I'm interested in railroading. I'm not interested in reading about the latest garbage churned out by the music industry or Hollywood. I'd pay to read Trains magazine -which covers what I'm interestes in - and I wouldn't pay to read Rolling Stone. Trains covers what I like. Rolling Stone doesn't. Which is more valuable to me? I don't care if you're talking about Rolling Stone for $35C or Women's Home Journal for $10. Just because it cheaper doesn't mean it's better. Don't get me wrong, I'm a music fanatic. I just don't think Rolling Stone is worth my money.

If you desire something that's not of mass appeal, you're going to pay a higher price for it. If the thing you like is not of wide spread appeal, whether it's a niche magazine, your favorite type of Swiss chocolate, or the brass locomotive you run on your model railroad, you pay extra for it. Why? Economy of scale. One more example that will hit closer to home: it's cheaper to fly than to travel by rail. Why? Economy of scale. More travelers choose the air. [:(] Sorry Kevin, it's everywhere in our lives.

Trying not to be the bad guy... Erik [:)]

[Trainnut484]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

We cannot be compared to large consumer magazines with hundreds of thousands of readers. We're a niche. You don't see it at the local grocery store check-out aisle.

Eric,

Up to about two/three years ago here in Kansas City, Trains could be found on high end grocery stores, and Wal-Mart magazine racks, but now they carry MR at best. That is a little disappointing for a railroad town such as Kansas City. Borders, a national book store chain, and a couple of local book stores, are the only places that I've seen Trains and other train and model railroading magazines on the racks. I'm sure Kalmach's accounting and subscription departments have taken notice.

QUOTE: As for content going down hill, I have to agree to disagree. The map of the month and trackside guides are two of the best features I've seen in Trains magazine in the past 10 years. Take a look at one of those trackside guides. There's a TON of content packed in there. Look at the maps... they take a lot of time and effort to produce. A magazine can't be everything to everybody, but to say it's getting worse seems a little extreme to me.

Again, not the official KPC statement, just your friendly content manager. [:D]

Erik

Also, there aren't as many railroads today to report on as there were 20 years ago. I used to subsribe to Pacific RailNews. It started out reporting on all railroads mainly west of the Mississippi River. Each railroad had its own column. Then after the BN-SF and UP-SP mergers, the title changed to RailNews to include the eastern roads. I guess that wasn't enough to fill content and subsription needs, and Kalmach purchased RailNews around 1997/1998. Why? I don't know. Was it the competition?

If another mega-merger occurs, the chances of content decreasing increases. Hopefully the Trains' staff will find a way to put the meat back in.

Take care[:)]

Russell

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut484


Eric,

Up to about two/three years ago here in Kansas City, Trains could be found on high end grocery stores, and Wal-Mart magazine racks, but now they carry MR at best. That is a little disappointing for a railroad town such as Kansas City. Borders, a national book store chain, and a couple of local book stores, are the only places that I've seen Trains and other train and model railroading magazines on the racks. I'm sure Kalmach's accounting and subscription departments have taken notice.

To make a very long story short, it's getting harder and harder to get small titles (like Trains, Model Railroader, etc.) onto magazine racks at grocery stores and Wal-Marts. Consolidation in the magazine distribution industry over the past five years is one factor. Another is the number of magazines available vs. the amount of shelf space available. Strong demand for that shelf space. So, unless you're willing to pay to have your magazine on certain newsstands like grocery stores, you don't get displayed. Next time you're at the grocery store, take a good look at the magazines the display. In most cases, there aren't many narrow interest titles.

We'd love to have Trains and all of our other magazines on every conceivable newsstand in North America. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as it used to be. [:(]

I appreciate you guys asking these questions and hope my answers help you learn a little about the inner workings of a publishing company.

Erik

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

REALLY!

I collected some prices for you all, i don't subscribe to them aLL, but here are some prices for everyone to look at

Road and Track magazine. 4.99 CDN for 156 pages
Motor Trend: 4.99 CDN for 156 pages
Import tuner: 5.99 CDN for ~ 220 pages
Performence Auto and sound 5.99 CDN for 371 pages, 20 bucks to subscribe for 1 year
UMM 122 pages for 4.25 , 10 issues for 10 bucks to subscribe
Maxim Blender: 4.99 CDN for 156 pages, 17. 97 Us funds for 1 year to subscribe
Trains magazine 6.95 CDN for 90 pages, 70 bucks CDN to subscribe anually..

Now something IS WRONG with that price.. time for someone to take immediate action.
Erik you started this topic, and i have yet to see a follow up... are you waiting for someone to Lie and say something nice about the price so you can throw your commentary in?

This also brings into Question about the executives on the board of TRAINS, no one i know will purchase it due to the insane price., and 2 other members have voiced their concerns over the price.. yet why havn't the executives tuned into this topic, let alone this fact and make an attempt to resolve it?

Now, REALLY, let's get very real here folks. To compare Road and Track magazine to TRAINS magazine is like comparing Chicago's Sears Tower to a humble ranch home in the suburbs...yes they are both structures and both have people inside but that's where the similarities end. TRAINS magazine is a really small niche player and R&T has a grossly larger readership AND advertisign revenue! So, while I agree that TRAINS is an expensive mag., I also think it is worth the price. If any of us don't want to read the magazine for the price, then DON'T, and if you truly can't afford the price, you can always go to the library and get on line and read the articles on this web site (but that does not cut it for me).

[zardoz]

Dollars Dollars Dollars!!! Is that what it all amounts to? Gas costs over $1.50/gallon, cigarettes over $3/pack. Beer at $1/bottle. Renting a movie costs $3 How much of just those commodities do you waste? And you want to complain about $4.95/month? Get real!!

I think the current price is very reasonable, considering the work that goes into making such a classy production. There are many magazines I have STOPPED subscribing to because of the plethora of advertising, most of which is totally irrelevant to me. I READ the ads in Trains, because there may be something to which I am interested.

I probably take 3-4 hours to read and then reread the entire issue. Plus I save them to look at again in a few years. For me, that's a lot of entertainment for only $5!!

p.s. I liked the "Men & Machines" the best.

[Trainnut484]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut484


Eric,

Up to about two/three years ago here in Kansas City, Trains could be found on high end grocery stores, and Wal-Mart magazine racks, but now they carry MR at best. That is a little disappointing for a railroad town such as Kansas City. Borders, a national book store chain, and a couple of local book stores, are the only places that I've seen Trains and other train and model railroading magazines on the racks. I'm sure Kalmach's accounting and subscription departments have taken notice.

To make a very long story short, it's getting harder and harder to get small titles (like Trains, Model Railroader, etc.) onto magazine racks at grocery stores and Wal-Marts. Consolidation in the magazine distribution industry over the past five years is one factor. Another is the number of magazines available vs. the amount of shelf space available. Strong demand for that shelf space. So, unless you're willing to pay to have your magazine on certain newsstands like grocery stores, you don't get displayed. Next time you're at the grocery store, take a good look at the magazines the display. In most cases, there aren't many narrow interest titles.

We'd love to have Trains and all of our other magazines on every conceivable newsstand in North America. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as it used to be. [:(]

I appreciate you guys asking these questions and hope my answers help you learn a little about the inner workings of a publishing company.

Erik

Thanks for the insight of how magazines get displayed on grocery store, and national discount chain store magazine racks. I'm guessing that the price of displaying Trains, and other Kalmbach magazines, is less expensive in specialty and local book stores, but public exposure is very limited. It is obvious that exposure is much greater in those grocery and discount chain stores. You've mentioned the "outside-the-walls" reasons why it's difficult to display magazines, but have not mentioned what is being done internally by staff to increase exposure to Trains and other Kalmbach magazines.

I'm still interested in why Kalmbach purchased RailNews, which I forgot to mention is no longer in publication in my original post.

Take care[:)]

Russell

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut484


I'm still interested in why Kalmbach purchased RailNews, which I forgot to mention is no longer in publication in my original post.

Take care[:)]

Russell

Hi Russell,

Kalmbach didn't purchase RailNews. We took over their circulation liability when they closed shop. Basically, we offered all RailNews subscribers the chance to have the rest of their subscription fulfilled with Trains. If they didn't want that, we offered a refund. We didn't buy them to elimate a competitor or get access to their archives. It was a deal brokered with their publisher. We did something similar for Classic Trains when Vintage Rails folded.

Take care,
Erik

[Modelcar]

....That certainly represents a big change over the many years that I have been purchasing Rail type magazines....I come from a small town in Pennsylvania [450 population], and at that time I watched for the magazines at the proper time of the month. RAILROAD mag. was the one that appeared even there at a small privately owned drug store at that time...[1940's]. Don't remember seeing TRAINS but never the less, the other mag. was a niche mag. too. If the business existed now one no doubt would not see these kinds of mags. in such a small store.

[nkp779]

I know this is a late posting on this subject but I just finally had time to read all the comments. I would like to know if the class1 railroads have been approched about advertising in the magzine or is this possible. I know that it cost a lot to advertise in any magzine or paper as I have to put ads in papers ect for our Tourist railroad. When you have a limited budget it makes it tough. Also I have some friends who own a publishing company and it is tough fo them to run it but they don't do just maganzines they some books and mostly things that have to do with church stuff. I hear how the price of paper keeps going up or the price of ink or the labor ect. I do like Trains and M R magzine. I have subscribed for a number of years and have saved all the ones I have gotten. It makes it nice to be able to go back and look up something from the past for a referance of some sort as I have done a number of times. I would also like to see Trains do a little more articals on the tourist Railroads as to how they are doing where they are and so forth. Maybe this could be of some instrest.
Rick

[nkp779]

Eric,
can you shed some comments on my recent post

[Kathi Kube]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nkp779

Eric,
can you shed some comments on my recent post

Rick,

Erik's out of the office now until Wednesday, the 15th. And I'm afraid I know precious little about the advertising end of the magazine. But I'll send Erik and email to be sure he sees your note and can respond when he returns.

Take care!
Kathi