railfan619 wrote:OK now I'm sure that i went and opened a can of worms on this but. Also I would not care about trains blowing their horns at 4:30 in the morning in fact I would love it cause then. I wouldn't need an alarm clock. But on the other hand people that work 2nd shift that are tryin to sleep might get a little ticked. But If i had any chance to go ride in a cab of an engine just to get an enginers presctive (spelling might be off on that word). But any who and all of you are right. Blowing a train horn at every grade crossing is a safety thing cause you really never know when someone will happily decide to go around gates that are down and get mauled by a train that's movin at 40 MPH or faster. And of course once someone does get killed at a grade crossing then the family of the victim sues the railroad for not blowing enough times to warn the traffic that the train was coming at full speed down the tracks. So like I said If I did open a can of worms on this subject I really did not mean to. And you are right If someone is standing on or near the tracks at anytime and a train is coming down the tracks the engineer would and should have any and every right to blow the horn as many times he wants to until that person moves. off of the tracks. And you guys are right the louder the better so it makes that person blankty blank themsleves cause the train kept blowin his horn as he came up to the crossing and beyond cause there is another crossing 50 from the first one then that's what he'll do. So that's all for now so that's it I'll be talkin to you all later.
Holy Foamer, Railfan! All I can say is WOW! (anachronym for weely odd words) (and sentence structure-anachronym not implied)
But I love your passion and you did get your point across. Does railfan619 have a legitimate point here that it is under the engineers discretion to use the horn as needed? Even in a restricted area? Are there grey areas as suggested like people track-side that may or may not pose a safety hazard in a no-blow-zone?
Another question- what about vehicles with Nathan or other air horns mounted in their vehicles- I've heard of this, is it legal? What are the ramifications of having something like that in your vehicle and using it?
Mookie wrote: And people will be people. There is good and bad in all occupations, railroads not excluded. So there will be the engineer that figures he is up, everyone should be up. Mook
And people will be people. There is good and bad in all occupations, railroads not excluded. So there will be the engineer that figures he is up, everyone should be up.
Mook
BNSFrailfan wrote: youngengineer wrote: If you dont like how much I blow the horn, move, If you think I blow the horn to much, come take a ride with me in the cab. I never as a railfan worried much about how much a horn was blown. I always felt that the railroad was there first. Now I am the one in the cab, and honestly I can say the new FRA rule is stupid at best. The rule should have stayed the same, Start at the whistle board and continue through the crossing. If one buys a house next to the track, sorry but you could have looked out the back window and seen the tracks. Whistle bans, effictive till someone gets killed, but I believe this was discussed before. And by the way I am responsible for sticking to the FRA guide lines and subject to a $27,000.00 fine if I do not blow the crossing at all. I can also be held civillaly responsible for a grade crossing accident if I do not use the proper horn rules. For me I wish to blow to much than to kill someone because its 4 am. You may think that the FRA rules are stupid if you go and kill someone while on the job.
youngengineer wrote: If you dont like how much I blow the horn, move, If you think I blow the horn to much, come take a ride with me in the cab. I never as a railfan worried much about how much a horn was blown. I always felt that the railroad was there first. Now I am the one in the cab, and honestly I can say the new FRA rule is stupid at best. The rule should have stayed the same, Start at the whistle board and continue through the crossing. If one buys a house next to the track, sorry but you could have looked out the back window and seen the tracks. Whistle bans, effictive till someone gets killed, but I believe this was discussed before. And by the way I am responsible for sticking to the FRA guide lines and subject to a $27,000.00 fine if I do not blow the crossing at all. I can also be held civillaly responsible for a grade crossing accident if I do not use the proper horn rules. For me I wish to blow to much than to kill someone because its 4 am.
If you dont like how much I blow the horn, move, If you think I blow the horn to much, come take a ride with me in the cab. I never as a railfan worried much about how much a horn was blown. I always felt that the railroad was there first. Now I am the one in the cab, and honestly I can say the new FRA rule is stupid at best. The rule should have stayed the same, Start at the whistle board and continue through the crossing. If one buys a house next to the track, sorry but you could have looked out the back window and seen the tracks. Whistle bans, effictive till someone gets killed, but I believe this was discussed before.
And by the way I am responsible for sticking to the FRA guide lines and subject to a $27,000.00 fine if I do not blow the crossing at all. I can also be held civillaly responsible for a grade crossing accident if I do not use the proper horn rules. For me I wish to blow to much than to kill someone because its 4 am.
What he is saying is the CHANGE in the FRA rule is stupid. I agree somewhat with him.
It didn't happen to me, but another engr just before the change happened, had a company officer talk to him because he didn't start whistling at sign post. They were going slow at the time. What I understand is the officer didn't take exception to this lapse because there was sufficient warning to the crossing. The engr then asked if the new rule was in effect, if he would've been OK. The officer said, no since under the new rules, he would've been sounding the whistle too long and could be written up for excessive whistling.
Regarding the proper whistling sequence. There are about 4 different horn buttons in use. A couple of them if your not applying pressure just right, the horn stops sounding. I've had that happen a few times wrecking the sequence.
If you use the automatic horn on engines equipped, it cycles thru the two long, one short, one long quite a bit faster then the engineer would do manually. I rarely use the feature, but the last time I did I think it cycled thru 3 or 4 times. It wouldn't sound like the usual 2-l-l, but is still in compliance because the signal is allowed to be repeated until the crossing is occupied.
Jeff
riprap wrote: On this general subject, does anyone out there know the names of the RR horn-making companies and which RR company buys from each of them?!
On this general subject, does anyone out there know the names of the RR horn-making companies and which RR company buys from each of them?!
I used to live just a block away from the UP main through San Antonio, TX. I never counted, but I know that at least one train ran every hour, and during the night, they ran trains as fast as the line could take them. Unfortunately, because the right of way was an old one, there were grade crossings about every 2 blocks (I'm really in favor of RR rights of way with as few grade level crossings as possible--better for trains and better for motorists). Despite flashing lights, bells and crossing gates, there were people running through each of the crossings, trying to beat the train. Other than run at low speed, I don't know what else the engineer COULD do than blow the air horn. And since the crossings were all so close to one another, the honking was more of a constant sound than an intermittant one.
Now, I love trains as much as any of you, but when I first moved into my appartment on Fulton Ave., I was repeatedly wakened by the sound of the air horns. Some of them were in very poor repair, and the sound of them reminded me of a dying goose. But after a few weeks, I got so used to the sound that it didn't bother me at all. In fact, when I spent the night elsewhere, I had trouble sleeping, because something was missing. I presume that those who just can't tolerate the honking would soon sell and move away, while the rest of us just get so used to it, that we can't live without it! I really miss that sound, as trains hardly use their air horns over here in Germany, and the only ones that even come close to an American diesel's horn are the old East German diesels. But, alas, they have become few and far between! So, count yourselves lucky if you live close enough to a railroad to hear the sonorous, forlorn sound of the air horns.
Big Z - since they want to become more popular with the citizenry, maybe they should go back to the old whistles. They sounded better and I miss them! And they were definitely attention-getters, in a nice way!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie, et. al.
Most of the new locomotives have a button to push for the horn. The engineer only has control over the duration of the noise, not the volume.
In the "good-old-days", the whistle was a pressure-activated valve: the harder you pulled the lever (or cord) the louder the whistle. Some horns would play the different "chimes" depending on the amount of air sent to the horn. Thus, a creative (or bored) engineer could not only vary the volume and the duration, (s)he could sometimes control the tones.
Just an observer here, but I watch trains during daylight hours. They do whistle what seems to be a long time and we suspend all conversations during that time. The rules have changed so they must whistle well before the xing, and hold it at least halfway through. They should be following the 2 longs, 1 short, 1 long, and most will. Some will try to be a little quieter, but they are actually breaking the rules. Also keep in mind - you have, if not complete darkness, at least fairly dark at your crossing. Put yourself in the engineer's place - you don't want any surprises - especially in the dark!
But the really best solution would be to call your realtor in the dead of the nite and play a recording of the loud whistles - for telling you it is a dead crossing! You will feel much better about all the noise!
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery:
The engineers/railroads get all the blame for the noise. What about the city? Who put in all those noisy grade crossings? The railroads certainly don't need them to run their trains!
If someone gets hit by a train, who do they sue? Certainly not the neighbors that are irritated!
Trucks, for example, are required to have a back-up bell. When you have that much tonage going down the tracks, why would you settle for silence?
Thoughts anyone?
Mookie
railfan619 wrote:WOW. This is one of those fourm questions I had wished on for a long time but anywho now I now know alot more from reading all of these but anywho. I really really like to hear train horns cause that tells me that the railroads are still running across this great country.
I just noticed a related advertisment in the October issue of Trains, page 76, lower right. the Ad is from Horns, INC, the subject is a video/DVD about the collecting hobby. web page is
www.dieselairhorns.com
The PA angle reminds me of a guy who used to be a guest from time to time on a morning radio show in Detroit.
He did railroad sound effects. With his mouth. And he was very good at it. You had to hear him do "walking between two passenger cars through the vestibule" to really appreciate it.
He also did "outside sounds" of the railroads.
He had a PA in his car.
He was working a late shift for a while somewhere and passed through a little town every worknight about 2 AM. The town had no railroad.
Never mind that detail. For some period of time, every time he went through that town at 2 AM, he did a great imitation of a train rolling through.
The way he told it, the townfolk were down on their hands and knees looking for the tracks...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
deer that dont move get hit it dont even get a reaction from me. and as far as a car or truck goes i wont put my train in emergency til i have hit them 9 times out of 10 they play chicken with you so i get another notch if we hit they lose. why should i waste time latching back up my train after someone being stupid and having the conductor walk it. if i went into emergency everytime someone tried beating me or playing chicken with me at crossings i never make it to destination. i be relieved 30 miles into my run. as far as whistle blowing goes, if im mad at 3am everyone is awake if things are going ok ill get thru town with little disturbance. its my choice on how long and how often i blow the horn.
TheAntiGates wrote: Train Guy 3 wrote: I can't see why a counity would want a band on horns... . Personally, I think that the idea of rolling carillons was a good idea, but there are others here who scoffed when I suggested it.
Train Guy 3 wrote: I can't see why a counity would want a band on horns... .
Even new locomotives with the electric horn button have a high/low function,
The horn has two magnet valves and push button has two positions.
Just like horn valve you got to learn to pay with it.
Railfan619,
The new locomotives have a bush-button for the horn--no ability to adjust the amount of air going to the horn. The older (SD40-2, etc) locos had an actual lever (or a cord on the even older units such as E8's & GP&'s) that permitted the engineer to regulate the amount of air that went to the horn. The term sometimes used when refering to this is "feathering".
In West Allis, the crossings are so close together that it is difficult to do the long-long-short-long in between each crossing. Perhaps the horn is one of the 'slow-to-stop' types. Or perhaps the engineer has had too many close-calls on those crosings (I know I had many). Or maybe he was just a jerk.
riprap wrote: Since we're in the deregulation era and all that jazz, is there/would there be anything preventing me from getting my Humvee 8x16 equipped with a full-throttle CN special? Also, to those who can "pick out" the CN horn, are there any others you can identify? I can usually identify an ex-SP, UP, BN (pre-SF), and Amtrak horn (yes, I know I have too much time on my hands)... Riprap
Since we're in the deregulation era and all that jazz, is there/would there be anything preventing me from getting my Humvee 8x16 equipped with a full-throttle CN special? Also, to those who can "pick out" the CN horn, are there any others you can identify? I can usually identify an ex-SP, UP, BN (pre-SF), and Amtrak horn (yes, I know I have too much time on my hands)...
Riprap
Well, it's not like you'd be the first. Check these out.
And these. I've seen this truck.
You might run afoul of the law if the horn is too loud. Seems like I've heard of places that have outlawed train horns on highway vehicles....
mudchicken wrote:49CFR229.129 96db (+/- 4dba )@ 100 Ft. measured per ANSI S1.4-1971 Type 2 , A-weighted for slow response.... In the interim while we check for compliance and wade thru the alphabet soup, we will place a lifesize decal of AntiGates' real mug on each end of every locomotive in the country, thus ensuring that nobody will get within 10 miles of a moving train or engine facility.
49CFR229.129 96db (+/- 4dba )@ 100 Ft. measured per ANSI S1.4-1971 Type 2 , A-weighted for slow response....
In the interim while we check for compliance and wade thru the alphabet soup, we will place a lifesize decal of AntiGates' real mug on each end of every locomotive in the country, thus ensuring that nobody will get within 10 miles of a moving train or engine facility.
MC's cite made me wonder if there was a maximum volume. There is!
Sec. 229.129 Audible warning device. (a) Each lead locomotive shall be provided with an audible warning device that produces a minimum sound level of 96dB(A) and a maximum sound level of 110 dB(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of travel. The device shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently operated from the engineer's usual position during operation of the locomotive.
TheAntiGates wrote:Who actually picks the tone and decible level of the horns used? The Gov't? the RR"s themselves?, The Manufacturers?Back in the stone age, the whistle of a steam engine had an almost enchanting affect.The first generation diesels (F-7's etc) with their "buzzer" sounding horns were not overbearing, either.Even the second generation diesels, with their 'muted trombone' sound was not as piercing as todays modern horns.Seems as though a lot of effort has gone into finding an intonation that is as irritating as possible, probably to make them more noticeable, but by same token more contemptible.Just curious if the Gov't specifies that rigidly, or if the various RR's have their own standards.One of the locals here on the NS has a unit with not all of it's chimes working, the shrill, highpitched end is missing.And while it is slightly off key as a result, it actually is a more pleasant horn to have around, sounds almost like when those old blues trumpeters would hold a bowl over their horns for that hollow sound. Easy on the ears.I laugh to myself everytime I hear them go by.
What I've derived from the train horn sites I've visited, railroads sort of fall into two groups - those who care what their horn sounds like, and those who don't (and therefore buy "off-the-shelf").
The Canadians tend to the melodious. I can usually pick out a CN engine from the horn.
There are a couple down sides to the older single note horns, IMHO. One, they don't penetrate today's cars as well, and second, people now expect to hear a five chime, and may well ignore anything else.
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