QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H.
Originally posted by jchnhtfd Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply rrnut282 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: MP CF161.6 NS's New Castle District in NE Indiana 2,146 posts Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, February 16, 2004 12:07 PM Originally posted by jchnhtfd Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:19 PM Dear ralphm, Mudchicken feathers are tough to ruffle. Nice try though! The only true statement in your post is "survey people can be as dumb as anyone around trains." The post started as an attempt to gather specific examples of what not to do if you are a surveyor. One hopes that the "m" in your identity is for misinformed. If for some reason, the M&M boys have re-emerged, your one-way ticket has already been punched.... This bird has done plenty through the OLI Engineering Safety Team , through AREMA , from the Class 1 railroad he worked for, and his present employer. He has taught 9 seminars for surveyors on railroad basics since 1986 in 5 states and has 3 more coming in the next 6 months. The team at AREMA (American Railroad Engineering & Maintenance Association) is putting together a program that tours the US starting next year at Las Vegas (March). That same team is made up of railroaders from 3 Class-1's, 2 regionals, 2 shortlines and consultants with class 1 experience (like this bird). Your cheap shot sounds just like the crap generated by the M&M boys, all hyperbole and zero rational thought. Yor first two sentences are misconceptions and blatantly false, especially the use of words "majority" and "easement".. Has NARPO sunk to the level of "Angels on the Tracks" ?(lawyers looking for new suckers to prey on?). We'll cut you some slack for only 15 posts in 20 months, but before you exercise your right to shoot before thinking on this subject again: (1) Understand the term "color of title", (2) Know what an ICC Land Shedule (ICC Form DV-107) is, (3) Study the Congesional Acts of 1855,1862,1866,1875 and 1903 in regard to railroad land grants along with the ICC Act of 1913, (4) Understand the difference between accuracy and precision, (5) Find out why a railroad Right of Way Deed is different than a highway RWD, and (6) Figure out why railroaders get digusted every time the "rails-to-trails'/National Interum Trail Use" issue comes up. (As in congress made the rule, not the railroads ) You wanted not to get dumped on, but you deserved this! -Mudchicken (Know what a mudchicken is?) ps - Should you have some aspirations of being a surveyor, we'll make sure AREMA gets you a front row seat for a session near you. What state did you hide in? Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply rrnut282 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: MP CF161.6 NS's New Castle District in NE Indiana 2,146 posts Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, February 16, 2004 12:07 PM Originally posted by jchnhtfd Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:19 PM Dear ralphm, Mudchicken feathers are tough to ruffle. Nice try though! The only true statement in your post is "survey people can be as dumb as anyone around trains." The post started as an attempt to gather specific examples of what not to do if you are a surveyor. One hopes that the "m" in your identity is for misinformed. If for some reason, the M&M boys have re-emerged, your one-way ticket has already been punched.... This bird has done plenty through the OLI Engineering Safety Team , through AREMA , from the Class 1 railroad he worked for, and his present employer. He has taught 9 seminars for surveyors on railroad basics since 1986 in 5 states and has 3 more coming in the next 6 months. The team at AREMA (American Railroad Engineering & Maintenance Association) is putting together a program that tours the US starting next year at Las Vegas (March). That same team is made up of railroaders from 3 Class-1's, 2 regionals, 2 shortlines and consultants with class 1 experience (like this bird). Your cheap shot sounds just like the crap generated by the M&M boys, all hyperbole and zero rational thought. Yor first two sentences are misconceptions and blatantly false, especially the use of words "majority" and "easement".. Has NARPO sunk to the level of "Angels on the Tracks" ?(lawyers looking for new suckers to prey on?). We'll cut you some slack for only 15 posts in 20 months, but before you exercise your right to shoot before thinking on this subject again: (1) Understand the term "color of title", (2) Know what an ICC Land Shedule (ICC Form DV-107) is, (3) Study the Congesional Acts of 1855,1862,1866,1875 and 1903 in regard to railroad land grants along with the ICC Act of 1913, (4) Understand the difference between accuracy and precision, (5) Find out why a railroad Right of Way Deed is different than a highway RWD, and (6) Figure out why railroaders get digusted every time the "rails-to-trails'/National Interum Trail Use" issue comes up. (As in congress made the rule, not the railroads ) You wanted not to get dumped on, but you deserved this! -Mudchicken (Know what a mudchicken is?) ps - Should you have some aspirations of being a surveyor, we'll make sure AREMA gets you a front row seat for a session near you. What state did you hide in? Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by jchnhtfd Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:19 PM Dear ralphm, Mudchicken feathers are tough to ruffle. Nice try though! The only true statement in your post is "survey people can be as dumb as anyone around trains." The post started as an attempt to gather specific examples of what not to do if you are a surveyor. One hopes that the "m" in your identity is for misinformed. If for some reason, the M&M boys have re-emerged, your one-way ticket has already been punched.... This bird has done plenty through the OLI Engineering Safety Team , through AREMA , from the Class 1 railroad he worked for, and his present employer. He has taught 9 seminars for surveyors on railroad basics since 1986 in 5 states and has 3 more coming in the next 6 months. The team at AREMA (American Railroad Engineering & Maintenance Association) is putting together a program that tours the US starting next year at Las Vegas (March). That same team is made up of railroaders from 3 Class-1's, 2 regionals, 2 shortlines and consultants with class 1 experience (like this bird). Your cheap shot sounds just like the crap generated by the M&M boys, all hyperbole and zero rational thought. Yor first two sentences are misconceptions and blatantly false, especially the use of words "majority" and "easement".. Has NARPO sunk to the level of "Angels on the Tracks" ?(lawyers looking for new suckers to prey on?). We'll cut you some slack for only 15 posts in 20 months, but before you exercise your right to shoot before thinking on this subject again: (1) Understand the term "color of title", (2) Know what an ICC Land Shedule (ICC Form DV-107) is, (3) Study the Congesional Acts of 1855,1862,1866,1875 and 1903 in regard to railroad land grants along with the ICC Act of 1913, (4) Understand the difference between accuracy and precision, (5) Find out why a railroad Right of Way Deed is different than a highway RWD, and (6) Figure out why railroaders get digusted every time the "rails-to-trails'/National Interum Trail Use" issue comes up. (As in congress made the rule, not the railroads ) You wanted not to get dumped on, but you deserved this! -Mudchicken (Know what a mudchicken is?) ps - Should you have some aspirations of being a surveyor, we'll make sure AREMA gets you a front row seat for a session near you. What state did you hide in? Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Have done a lot of survey work myself, I don't know how many times I have had to explain that possibility when someone chooses a RR tie as an easy place to pound in a nail for a control point.[:D] I usually win the discussion, but if I don't, I won't put my name on the work.[X-)] Honest, boss, I don't know who was out there.[}:)] Mike (2-8-2) Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Monday, February 16, 2004 10:48 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Oh I love it! I love it![:D][:D][:D][:D] Jamie Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:27 PM Kevin: (1) For what ever reason, the subject surfaced to the top after a long hiatus buried in the postings..... (2) Have spent many years dealing with surveyors who think "surveyors right-of-entry" entitles them the right to stand out in the middle of the track any time they darn well please. (This is more of a US issue than it is up north of the border)...An Amtrak flagman died in 1996 trying to stop a dumb move by a surveyor at Monmouth, NJ....As I teach surveyors & engineers basics about entering railroad property with the proper protection. Most of these folks can't savvy the things that happen out on the railroad. There is a surveyors message board that has several "legends in their own minds" that advocate things that are truly frightening and will eventually kill some unfortunate soul. What I was hoping to hear was some of the things that the guys in the operating crafts have run into over the years. DaveH and mvlandsw thanx for the tips. Still trying to get non-railroaders to think a little bit before stepping into harms way. One more accident survey is one too many... Mudchicken[banghead] Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:35 AM I'm not sure i understand the Question... dumb it down for me in a few sentances... But heres what i get from it... I find that surveyors are more often around corssings then not, never had a bad encounter with them, I do find though that they skoot in front of the train jsut to make it to the other side of the tracks, which i believe will vut about 10 years of my life. I'm not so worried about them, with Stations close to the track, it tends to encourage punk-*** kids, who have nothing better to do then to cause mischief.. Thats what worries me more... One time, A lady dropped almsot a dollars worth of change on the floor of the passenger car, and couldn't be bothered to pick it p.. so here I saw, and started picking it up.. as I bent down and started picking up the quarters, An Ice ball (will describe later) came sailing through the window, busted it, glass went down my shirt, hit the floor and skidded down the isle, bumpng into some seat legs. This Ice ball, someone during the melt must have made a snow ball, and put it in their freezer so it was hard as heck.. would have broken through 12 windows, given half the chance If i wasn't bend down picking up the money, the stupid thing would have hit my head or my face or my neck... So dumb kids are what i'm worried about most., Stations by the tracks are very inviting, I often Wonder if these kids have anyhting better to do, such as play cards, or show off their car, do doughnuts in Food lion parking lot, play yatzee perhaps, have sex with their Girlfriends... Any one f those, I wouldn't care.. jsut don't bust up other peoples property, I must be among the few that things that that past time is stupid. Reply Edit dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply dehusman Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Omaha, NE 10,616 posts Posted by dehusman on Sunday, February 15, 2004 7:51 AM A survey crew comes through and uses some points on the tracks as referenc stations (driving nails into the ties). Two days later a tamper comes through and relines and tamps/raises the track. The survey crew comes back and can't figure out why the points/stations are off by 6" a foot. Dave H. Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply mvlandsw Member sinceDecember 2001 1,178 posts Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:31 AM A local utility crew set up their truck on the B&O tracks and were working in the bucket on the end of the boom until a train removed the truck and left the lineman clinging to the pole. They said they thought trains didn't run there anymore. Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Saturday, February 14, 2004 2:23 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. And since I'm a ditto, I'll just second this one! But you would think that surveyors (the local domestic flavour, not guys like MC!), who are supposed to be pretty smart guys, would think a little bit... also, I might add, there are an astonishing number of construction guys out there who think that since the tracks are only 4' 8 1/2" gauge, the trains are also that width... can't tell you how many equipment operators and truckers I've had to politely[:(!] tell to move their equipment before the railroad did it for them[:D]. Jamie Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, February 13, 2004 10:35 PM MC Wish I had a good tale for you, but I don't even have a bad one except for the surveying oop's I have done, and none of them involved trains. Well, one did, but not for your purposes. I understand what Ralph M was refering to, but as you also said, he did get it wrong. The sad part of it is, almost all property owners think as he wrote in his post. What is not understood is that whatever the legal conveyance used to permit the tracks to have been built, they act like clear title as long as the railroad stays, and sometimes even after that. I was never into the property end to the extent that you mentioned in your return note to Ralph but am aware of the things you talked about. I guess where I am going with this, is for me at least, I would be interested in learning in more detail of what you spoke. Perhaps others here would also. I know how to do meets and bounds and deed searches and can read and apply surveys, right-of-way maps/charts and track charts, but that doesn't mean I know all that I should about the various forms, rules and laws that apply. I even have questions - already! Get that file out and dull your talons and beak. I am amazed that your computer survived. Me thinks, as a certain terra-coated fowl has mention in the past, Mook beware. I am past the stage where water is made by the pipes and the milk by the store. But not a whole lot. Eric is watching out for dark shadow in the shape of a Mud Chicken that passes over track. Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, February 13, 2004 7:49 PM MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:31 PM Ed: Feathers are fine, but the talons and beak suddenly got very sharp & pointed. Bottom of the ol' cage here is nothing but shreds. Computer is over in the corner cowering....Who substituted a powerbar for my regular bird-seed? Mookie's on a chocolate cake binge - safe to get out of the cage? Go home time! Dusty Pheasant PS- JoeKoh: Ohio OLI represented at Lima and trying to get OLI to make a presentation to 250+ surveyors in Ohio next year. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,289 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have. hey ralph who helped found operation lifesaver?a railroad.no matter what you do its being aware of your surroundings.[;)] stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:42 PM You know, your going to have a heck of a time putting your hat back on with all thoses head feathers fluffed up like that! Wow, I thought skeets was a fast draw! (in case you didnt notice, I am filling in for Mookie, who is on a chocolate cake run, and am just pulling your chain a little) For what its worth, my brother in law is a civil engineer, and was made well aware of what his surveyors could, and could not do around railroad tracks. Not only was this information taught to him in the course of his college studies, he has the local railroads phone numbers to contact them when ever any of his crews will be near or around tracks. He consults with a engineer from the railroad whenever he has to go under the ROW, or perform work near them. Says he learned a lot more about what he should and shouldnt do near trackage from this guy than any college class could have taught him. Stay Frosty, and a little VO5 will help them head feathers![:p] Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,789 posts Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:19 PM Dear ralphm, Mudchicken feathers are tough to ruffle. Nice try though! The only true statement in your post is "survey people can be as dumb as anyone around trains." The post started as an attempt to gather specific examples of what not to do if you are a surveyor. One hopes that the "m" in your identity is for misinformed. If for some reason, the M&M boys have re-emerged, your one-way ticket has already been punched.... This bird has done plenty through the OLI Engineering Safety Team , through AREMA , from the Class 1 railroad he worked for, and his present employer. He has taught 9 seminars for surveyors on railroad basics since 1986 in 5 states and has 3 more coming in the next 6 months. The team at AREMA (American Railroad Engineering & Maintenance Association) is putting together a program that tours the US starting next year at Las Vegas (March). That same team is made up of railroaders from 3 Class-1's, 2 regionals, 2 shortlines and consultants with class 1 experience (like this bird). Your cheap shot sounds just like the crap generated by the M&M boys, all hyperbole and zero rational thought. Yor first two sentences are misconceptions and blatantly false, especially the use of words "majority" and "easement".. Has NARPO sunk to the level of "Angels on the Tracks" ?(lawyers looking for new suckers to prey on?). We'll cut you some slack for only 15 posts in 20 months, but before you exercise your right to shoot before thinking on this subject again: (1) Understand the term "color of title", (2) Know what an ICC Land Shedule (ICC Form DV-107) is, (3) Study the Congesional Acts of 1855,1862,1866,1875 and 1903 in regard to railroad land grants along with the ICC Act of 1913, (4) Understand the difference between accuracy and precision, (5) Find out why a railroad Right of Way Deed is different than a highway RWD, and (6) Figure out why railroaders get digusted every time the "rails-to-trails'/National Interum Trail Use" issue comes up. (As in congress made the rule, not the railroads ) You wanted not to get dumped on, but you deserved this! -Mudchicken (Know what a mudchicken is?) ps - Should you have some aspirations of being a surveyor, we'll make sure AREMA gets you a front row seat for a session near you. What state did you hide in? Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe MC-- Speaking as a PE who does consulting work on RRs, AMEN, BROTHER! Keep up the good work letting the survey crews know what they are dealing with.
QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm I would ask a question- what have the RR's done to contact the state and local survey associations through operation lifesaver, or someother way to teach them right and wrong around the tracks. Knowing how the RR's ignore everybody, they probably never have.
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
23 17 46 11
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