Electric Freight Lines

[WM7471]

It has been nearly a quarter of century since the newly formed Conrail seriously considered electrifing the former PRR line from Harrisburg to Conway yard west of Pittsburgh. I think electrifing certain freight lines is the logical step following capacity improvements. Yes, I know the up front costs are enormous, and would require goverment grants or loans. My first choice in the west would be the BNSF Trancon from Chicago to LA, and CSX from Northern New Jersey to Florida. What are your thoughts?

[WM7471]

It has been nearly a quarter of century since the newly formed Conrail seriously considered electrifing the former PRR line from Harrisburg to Conway yard west of Pittsburgh. I think electrifing certain freight lines is the logical step following capacity improvements. Yes, I know the up front costs are enormous, and would require goverment grants or loans. My first choice in the west would be the BNSF Trancon from Chicago to LA, and CSX from Northern New Jersey to Florida. What are your thoughts?

[mudchicken]

(1) In the mountains maybe, on the flats -forget it. Certain large cities - possibly.(Physics lesson on regenerative braking and how inefficient electric transmission over long distances is needed here, keep the power generator on the platform it rolls along on now.)

(2) Besides the stupidly prohibitive cost of catenary, who is going to raise all those bridges 2-4 feet to stuff catenary under there?. At an average $1.5 million per replaced grade separation, it's economically dead on arrival .

(3) Sorry, Uncle Sam already gave all the available money away , subsidizing the truckers and the airlines.

[mudchicken]

(1) In the mountains maybe, on the flats -forget it. Certain large cities - possibly.(Physics lesson on regenerative braking and how inefficient electric transmission over long distances is needed here, keep the power generator on the platform it rolls along on now.)

(2) Besides the stupidly prohibitive cost of catenary, who is going to raise all those bridges 2-4 feet to stuff catenary under there?. At an average $1.5 million per replaced grade separation, it's economically dead on arrival .

(3) Sorry, Uncle Sam already gave all the available money away , subsidizing the truckers and the airlines.

[Anonymous]

The US is bankrupt! In the not-so-distant past, the money supply was restricted by the amount of gold backing it; now whenever we need to borrow more money, we print more. The money supply of dollars has about doubled since 1995. All of this crap will stop whenever the rest of the world begins to realize that they aren't going to be repaid by the US. When they stop buying our bonds, it's all over. Our standard of living will fall nearly over night. NO nation in history has owed as much as the US does right now. Between the gov't debt, corporate debt and private debt, the fall should be pretty steep. If you want to read more about it, go to Google and insert "the daily reckoning". We're spending $1 billion a WEEK to "liberate" Iraq. We're paying billions to edumakate the lumpen proleteriat's children.[ the elite's children get a different deal!] That's why home schooling is so hot. WM, this house of cards is shaking, and there ain't no money for trolley wires.

[Anonymous]

The US is bankrupt! In the not-so-distant past, the money supply was restricted by the amount of gold backing it; now whenever we need to borrow more money, we print more. The money supply of dollars has about doubled since 1995. All of this crap will stop whenever the rest of the world begins to realize that they aren't going to be repaid by the US. When they stop buying our bonds, it's all over. Our standard of living will fall nearly over night. NO nation in history has owed as much as the US does right now. Between the gov't debt, corporate debt and private debt, the fall should be pretty steep. If you want to read more about it, go to Google and insert "the daily reckoning". We're spending $1 billion a WEEK to "liberate" Iraq. We're paying billions to edumakate the lumpen proleteriat's children.[ the elite's children get a different deal!] That's why home schooling is so hot. WM, this house of cards is shaking, and there ain't no money for trolley wires.

[jsanchez]

You forgot to mention most of the states are teetering on bankruptcy also, most of the problem stems from the loss of manufacturing in th U.S. Every factory that closes has a huge impact on state revenues, just ask Gray Davis!!! I wish some of the Republicrats would grow up and admit the free trade deals were a huge mistake, but I'm not counting on it. I think this week they are supposed to vote on eliminating overtime for salaried people , a pet project of the President and the Labour Dept. This will have a catostrsphic effect on the middle class also. (technicians, Nurses, paramedics, you name it will be exempt from over time pay.) I just don't get the logic behind this......It dosen't matter to me much, since my job is going overseas, before it can take affect!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets

The US is bankrupt! In the not-so-distant past, the money supply was restricted by the amount of gold backing it; now whenever we need to borrow more money, we print more. The money supply of dollars has about doubled since 1995. All of this crap will stop whenever the rest of the world begins to realize that they aren't going to be repaid by the US. When they stop buying our bonds, it's all over. Our standard of living will fall nearly over night. NO nation in history has owed as much as the US does right now. Between the gov't debt, corporate debt and private debt, the fall should be pretty steep. If you want to read more about it, go to Google and insert "the daily reckoning". We're spending $1 billion a WEEK to "liberate" Iraq. We're paying billions to edumakate the lumpen proleteriat's children.[ the elite's children get a different deal!] That's why home schooling is so hot. WM, this house of cards is shaking, and there ain't no money for trolley wires.

[jsanchez]

You forgot to mention most of the states are teetering on bankruptcy also, most of the problem stems from the loss of manufacturing in th U.S. Every factory that closes has a huge impact on state revenues, just ask Gray Davis!!! I wish some of the Republicrats would grow up and admit the free trade deals were a huge mistake, but I'm not counting on it. I think this week they are supposed to vote on eliminating overtime for salaried people , a pet project of the President and the Labour Dept. This will have a catostrsphic effect on the middle class also. (technicians, Nurses, paramedics, you name it will be exempt from over time pay.) I just don't get the logic behind this......It dosen't matter to me much, since my job is going overseas, before it can take affect!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets

The US is bankrupt! In the not-so-distant past, the money supply was restricted by the amount of gold backing it; now whenever we need to borrow more money, we print more. The money supply of dollars has about doubled since 1995. All of this crap will stop whenever the rest of the world begins to realize that they aren't going to be repaid by the US. When they stop buying our bonds, it's all over. Our standard of living will fall nearly over night. NO nation in history has owed as much as the US does right now. Between the gov't debt, corporate debt and private debt, the fall should be pretty steep. If you want to read more about it, go to Google and insert "the daily reckoning". We're spending $1 billion a WEEK to "liberate" Iraq. We're paying billions to edumakate the lumpen proleteriat's children.[ the elite's children get a different deal!] That's why home schooling is so hot. WM, this house of cards is shaking, and there ain't no money for trolley wires.

[Anonymous]

From the state of Florida's high speed rail web site it costs $3 million per mile to electrify double high speed track, whereas it costs $9 million per mile to build high speed double track. Outside of the northeast corridor, I do not expect much electrifying. The best we can probably hope for in speed is the Bombadier Jet Train, averaging over 150 mph. The TGV-ICE electric engines capable of averaging over 186 mph is more than likely beyond our grasp. We simply cannot afford to electrify every bit of track in America....whether federal or private....

[Anonymous]

From the state of Florida's high speed rail web site it costs $3 million per mile to electrify double high speed track, whereas it costs $9 million per mile to build high speed double track. Outside of the northeast corridor, I do not expect much electrifying. The best we can probably hope for in speed is the Bombadier Jet Train, averaging over 150 mph. The TGV-ICE electric engines capable of averaging over 186 mph is more than likely beyond our grasp. We simply cannot afford to electrify every bit of track in America....whether federal or private....

[kevarc]

I think you better go and reread the history of Nafta. It was DEMOCRATS who pushed it along as well as Republicans. And who was President during all the big push for free trade? CLINTON. If you are going to make statements, at least get your facts right.

Skeets - I don't consider myself the "elite" and neither are any of my coworkers (we all make less than 50,000/year), but ALL of our children go to private school. If you want your kid to secceed, you must sacrifice for him.

[kevarc]

I think you better go and reread the history of Nafta. It was DEMOCRATS who pushed it along as well as Republicans. And who was President during all the big push for free trade? CLINTON. If you are going to make statements, at least get your facts right.

Skeets - I don't consider myself the "elite" and neither are any of my coworkers (we all make less than 50,000/year), but ALL of our children go to private school. If you want your kid to secceed, you must sacrifice for him.

[zardoz]

kevarc-Is that secceed as in to relinquish power and/or title, or succeed as in to result favorably according to plans and desires?

And I suppose it depends on how you define success. If my kids are happy, then they have succeeded.

A question to seriously consider:
Would you rather be rich or be happy?
(and you cannot answer that if you were rich you would be happy, that does not necessarily follow)

[zardoz]

kevarc-Is that secceed as in to relinquish power and/or title, or succeed as in to result favorably according to plans and desires?

And I suppose it depends on how you define success. If my kids are happy, then they have succeeded.

A question to seriously consider:
Would you rather be rich or be happy?
(and you cannot answer that if you were rich you would be happy, that does not necessarily follow)

[TH&B]

There is no value in gold. It's just a dead hunk of metal as artificial as money itself. Paper, metal, plastic, what's the difference? Value lies in land and resources. But I thought this column was gonna be about electric trains!!

[TH&B]

There is no value in gold. It's just a dead hunk of metal as artificial as money itself. Paper, metal, plastic, what's the difference? Value lies in land and resources. But I thought this column was gonna be about electric trains!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc

Skeets - I don't consider myself the "elite" and neither are any of my coworkers (we all make less than 50,000/year), but ALL of our children go to private school. If you want your kid to secceed, you must sacrifice for him.

kevarc, They EXPECT the huge middle to send their kids to the fascist schools for indoctrination; they DON'T send their own kids to the same institutions. As I said, millions of parents are doing home schooling to give their kids some chance in the the future. I could also have added that millions of parents, with some single parents also with great difficulty, are sending their children to private school. But the fact remains that the elite's off spring will be positioned to rule the great lump in the middle, not to mention the poor , in the years ahead.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc

Skeets - I don't consider myself the "elite" and neither are any of my coworkers (we all make less than 50,000/year), but ALL of our children go to private school. If you want your kid to secceed, you must sacrifice for him.

kevarc, They EXPECT the huge middle to send their kids to the fascist schools for indoctrination; they DON'T send their own kids to the same institutions. As I said, millions of parents are doing home schooling to give their kids some chance in the the future. I could also have added that millions of parents, with some single parents also with great difficulty, are sending their children to private school. But the fact remains that the elite's off spring will be positioned to rule the great lump in the middle, not to mention the poor , in the years ahead.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

There is no value in gold. It's just a dead hunk of metal as artificial as money itself. Paper, metal, plastic, what's the difference? Value lies in land and resources. But I thought this column was gonna be about electric trains!!

If you really believe that, I'll gladly trade you some plastic for your equal amount of gold. Sorry, 440, but gold and other precious metals have stood the test of time. In good times or bad, in peace or war, in revolution and upheaval, precious metals have maintained their value. The value of our fiat money is that a merchant or Chinese manufacturer or mechanic will accept your greenback for services or goods rendered. It's backed by the "full faith and trust of the United yada yada yada. " When that faith and trust is shaken, something pretty solid will hit the proverbial fan. But guess what, 440? The "dead hunk metals" will still be there. The price of gold was very stable for many years. Its wild fluctuations of recent decades is the result of central banks messing with their fiat money. Removing the gold backing from the money has led to the pickle most of the world is in now. With a gold standard, NO nation would have been able to run up a debt in the TRILLIONS!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

There is no value in gold. It's just a dead hunk of metal as artificial as money itself. Paper, metal, plastic, what's the difference? Value lies in land and resources. But I thought this column was gonna be about electric trains!!

If you really believe that, I'll gladly trade you some plastic for your equal amount of gold. Sorry, 440, but gold and other precious metals have stood the test of time. In good times or bad, in peace or war, in revolution and upheaval, precious metals have maintained their value. The value of our fiat money is that a merchant or Chinese manufacturer or mechanic will accept your greenback for services or goods rendered. It's backed by the "full faith and trust of the United yada yada yada. " When that faith and trust is shaken, something pretty solid will hit the proverbial fan. But guess what, 440? The "dead hunk metals" will still be there. The price of gold was very stable for many years. Its wild fluctuations of recent decades is the result of central banks messing with their fiat money. Removing the gold backing from the money has led to the pickle most of the world is in now. With a gold standard, NO nation would have been able to run up a debt in the TRILLIONS!

[edblysard]

Sounds like someone wore out their copy of the little red book...
Look, school, either private or public, is what you make of it.
I know, my sisters kids went to private schools most of their lives.
So far, the 20 year old still lives at home, we dont know where the 22 year old is, and the 26 year old sells mail order health food.
On the other hand, my sisters, who suffered through public schooling, went on to be, among other things, nurses, (both of them have several degrees, from tirage to OR to a tramua flight nurse) a captain in the Civil Air Patrol, a university professor at University of New Mexico.
Both earn well in excess of $100,000. yearly.
From public schooling, and attending the U of H, local college.
Where you go to school make no difference, what you do there does.
And how you chose to learn is directly related to how your parents teach you to learn.
You, the parent, make the difference.
You have to teach you child to grasp the difference between the bull crap and the knowledge, and instill in them the idea that knowledge is the only key to unlocking the world.
My children havent been indoctrinated into a fascist regime, I already taught them that, yes, you have to play by the rules, but if the rules are not fair, its up to them to change them.
This is from a navy brat who spent most of his formative years around people who couldnt sit down unless they were ordered to.

As for the original thread, the cost of maintaining a fixed overhead wire would negate any profit a electric railray could make. The very fact that the train cant go anywhere the wire dosnt precludes the use of the locomotive in anything but captured service.
Thats why the Houston North Shore pulled down the wires in the late 50s, early 60s.
The last blackout should have taught everyone on the east coast that putting all the eggs in one basket dosnt work, unless you like them scrambled.

Besides the Swiss, what country still uses a gold or precious metal standard anymore?
South Africa?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Sounds like someone wore out their copy of the little red book...
Look, school, either private or public, is what you make of it.
I know, my sisters kids went to private schools most of their lives.
So far, the 20 year old still lives at home, we dont know where the 22 year old is, and the 26 year old sells mail order health food.
On the other hand, my sisters, who suffered through public schooling, went on to be, among other things, nurses, (both of them have several degrees, from tirage to OR to a tramua flight nurse) a captain in the Civil Air Patrol, a university professor at University of New Mexico.
Both earn well in excess of $100,000. yearly.
From public schooling, and attending the U of H, local college.
Where you go to school make no difference, what you do there does.
And how you chose to learn is directly related to how your parents teach you to learn.
You, the parent, make the difference.
You have to teach you child to grasp the difference between the bull crap and the knowledge, and instill in them the idea that knowledge is the only key to unlocking the world.
My children havent been indoctrinated into a fascist regime, I already taught them that, yes, you have to play by the rules, but if the rules are not fair, its up to them to change them.
This is from a navy brat who spent most of his formative years around people who couldnt sit down unless they were ordered to.

As for the original thread, the cost of maintaining a fixed overhead wire would negate any profit a electric railray could make. The very fact that the train cant go anywhere the wire dosnt precludes the use of the locomotive in anything but captured service.
Thats why the Houston North Shore pulled down the wires in the late 50s, early 60s.
The last blackout should have taught everyone on the east coast that putting all the eggs in one basket dosnt work, unless you like them scrambled.

Besides the Swiss, what country still uses a gold or precious metal standard anymore?
South Africa?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[jsanchez]

Notice I said, Republicrats, I could have said Demopublicans, I consider both parties to be the problem, they might as well merge like BN and SF did or it would probably be more like UP and SP. I miss seeing E44's and GG 1's pulling freight in the Northeast.

[jsanchez]

Notice I said, Republicrats, I could have said Demopublicans, I consider both parties to be the problem, they might as well merge like BN and SF did or it would probably be more like UP and SP. I miss seeing E44's and GG 1's pulling freight in the Northeast.

[Anonymous]

Electrification is not a big deal unless you want to have 150+mph service.
After electrification, everything gets harder:
-If you want capacity improvements, put new signals, add some sidings... and put thicker wires and additional transformers.
-If you want bigger clearances, raise bridges, tunnels.... and change all electrification poles.
-If you want longer trains, enlarge terminals, sidings,... and get new wires and transformers.
-If you want faster trains, stabilize track, modify some curves,... and make electrification again.

Besides, electrification needs maintenance and, as someone stated before, blackouts mean immediate collapse.

[Anonymous]

Electrification is not a big deal unless you want to have 150+mph service.
After electrification, everything gets harder:
-If you want capacity improvements, put new signals, add some sidings... and put thicker wires and additional transformers.
-If you want bigger clearances, raise bridges, tunnels.... and change all electrification poles.
-If you want longer trains, enlarge terminals, sidings,... and get new wires and transformers.
-If you want faster trains, stabilize track, modify some curves,... and make electrification again.

Besides, electrification needs maintenance and, as someone stated before, blackouts mean immediate collapse.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard



Where you go to school make no difference, what you do there does.
And how you chose to learn is directly related to how your parents teach you to learn.
You, the parent, make the difference.
You have to teach you child to grasp the difference between the bull crap and the knowledge, and instill in them the idea that knowledge is the only key to unlocking the world.
My children havent been indoctrinated into a fascist regime, I already taught them that, yes, you have to play by the rules, but if the rules are not fair, its up to them to change them.
This is from a navy brat who spent most of his formative years around people who couldnt sit down unless they were ordered to.

Ed, that sure is a big point. If the parents trust that someone else is watching the store, their kids will pay. They don't teach young people to think. It sounds like you're taking care of your own on that score. I don't know about Texas, but up here in the rust belt, most public schools are in a free fall. The inner city is encouraged to vote against vouchers...the very thing that could help their kids. I don't have a red book, but I do have a burgundy one...it's a Bible. BTW, if you can find an old dictionary, mine is a Webster's from 1964, look up the word "fascism"; it'll curl your hair.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard



Where you go to school make no difference, what you do there does.
And how you chose to learn is directly related to how your parents teach you to learn.
You, the parent, make the difference.
You have to teach you child to grasp the difference between the bull crap and the knowledge, and instill in them the idea that knowledge is the only key to unlocking the world.
My children havent been indoctrinated into a fascist regime, I already taught them that, yes, you have to play by the rules, but if the rules are not fair, its up to them to change them.
This is from a navy brat who spent most of his formative years around people who couldnt sit down unless they were ordered to.

Ed, that sure is a big point. If the parents trust that someone else is watching the store, their kids will pay. They don't teach young people to think. It sounds like you're taking care of your own on that score. I don't know about Texas, but up here in the rust belt, most public schools are in a free fall. The inner city is encouraged to vote against vouchers...the very thing that could help their kids. I don't have a red book, but I do have a burgundy one...it's a Bible. BTW, if you can find an old dictionary, mine is a Webster's from 1964, look up the word "fascism"; it'll curl your hair.

[edblysard]

Hi Skeets,
That is the sad part, too many parents feel like the public school system is a built in babysitter/morals class.
They forget their own years in school, when saying F**k got you a week off, now days teachers dont even bat a eye at that, or much worst, because we have placed the value education below the value of gratification.
Its just plain easier to dump the kids there and go do what you want.
If the school sends you kids home for being a jerk, then you get to sue them for denieing your kid his or her education, and most likley you will win.
The only way any type of educational system can ever work is if you grant the school authority to enforce a code of behaviour, and then you, as the parent, enforce the same code at home.
Sadly, it seems that this generation of parents expect their kids to act like the little smart alecks on all the TV sit coms, so of course, they do.
After all, its acceptable on public tv,?
What a bunch of crap.
What I expect from my kids is real simple.
If they see me being rude, farting and burping at the dinner table, cussing at other adults, and generaly acting like the morons on tv, then are free to act the same.
On the other hand, because I chose to follow the same path my parents did, and try to teach by example, they better not even try.
Which means I dont do those things, but I do open doors for women, and hold their chair for them.
I was raised to stand when a woman entered the room, and when she left the table.
I dont use the F word in every other sentence, and have never referred to a woman as a bit*h.
Well, maybe my ex wife, but thats a whole nother story!

My point is, vouchers, food stamps, public or private schooling, it matters not one bit if the message of why, and how you need to learn and behave isnt taught in the one place all kids have to come to, home.

Before I went railroading, I worked for the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, in the child support division as a locate specialist.
Part of my job was recovery of AFDC fraud, what most people refer to as welfare fraud.
Read carefully.
We as a nation, are on the fourth generation of Americans who truly belive the federal goverment owes them cradle to grave care.
They have been raised to belive that the goverment should feed them, subsidise their housing, pay all of their medical bills, including the cost of having their illegitimate children, provide day care, schooling and medical care for those same children, and pay them, the parent, a monthly cash annuity for having had these children, who they will raise to belive the same things.
They dont feel its right for anyone to expect them to work to help support themselves, because they have kids, and never finished high school, and its their right to be cared for, and our duty to provide that care.
It is a entire culture, with its own set of rules and morals, and it exsists side by side with the culture you and I live in, yet most of us dont really know its even there.
If you saw the true figures your state's dept of health and welfare spent, your hair would do more than curl, it would fall right out.
What we spend annually as a nation on our social welfare system could cover the Pentagon's budget for a several years, fund Amtrak, Nasa, and feed the entire population of LA for a year, with some left over.
It is so huge, and so out of control, that no one knows the real dollar amounts anymore, they havent known for years, and publicly admit the fact!
This attitude crosses all color lines, no race is exempt or lives like this anymore that any other, although it is perceived as a "black" lifestyle.
Trust me, it isnt.
I have jailed just as many whites, blacks, spanish and aisians for fraud.
It easy to commit, hard to trace, almost impossible to prosecute, and harder still to get a conviction.
Because we, as a society, accept it as normal, or a premissable lifestyle.
As much money, in the form of food stamps and welfare payments(afdc), is paid out in one month nationally as your states entire annual budget.
I quit the state out of utter frustration, its a no win deal, we dont have enough prisions big enough to hold them all even if we could catch them.

I am glad you have a bible.
After reading both the new and old testiment as a historical treatisy of the life and times of Jesus, and as a religous texbook, I find that, aside from the mythical aspects, it reads as well and true as any other religions text.
It contains lessons all people, regardless of where they are from, should apply in their lives.
Upmost, in my opinion, would be the ten commandments.
One would be hard pressed to find ten better rules to govern ones life by.
Most religions have somewhat the same basic set of "rules".
And, as the grandson of a German Jew who fled his homeland before WWI, and spent the following years in a pow camp outside Alvin, Texas, I know all to well the definition of fascist, along with national socialism and communism.
Dad was a first generation American, who served in the United States Navy from WWII through Vietnam.
My grandfather refused to say Hitlers name, instead he referred to him as "that monster".
Even with almost no english language skills, if asked, my grandfather would proudly refer to himself as "American".
He belived utter and completly in what this county offers, the right to choose.
I understand all to well we dont live in a democratic country, we live in a country governed as a democratic republic.
A true democracy means 100% of the population has to agree 100% of the time on any given issue for it to become law.
Never would this work.
But, as a democratic republic, we elect individules to represent us, and speak with our voice and act in the interest of those who elected them.
We are one of the few countries that can alter our goverments policy every four years, by changing those elected to represent us.
Dont like how things are going right now?
Did you vote last time?
If not, shut up and sit down.
If you did vote, then vote again, this time for change.
Find me a better system.
Untill you can, I intend to ride this horse as far as he will go!
In no way do I intend to insult anyones religion or faith, my very Catholic in laws joking refer to me as that faithless heathen, or that pagen fellow, because I follow no organized religion, although I could claim both the Jewish faith from my grandfather, and the Holy Church of England from my mother.
I chose instead, to look at all religions as a matter of personal faith, because most do teach basicly the same concept, in that all people should strive to be better, not only in their public behaviour, but in their private life as well, and to respect those around them.
Almost all teach that to help those who cant help themselves is a good and wise thing.
If you stop and think about it, the three major religions all use the same phrase over and over in their teachings.
Go with God
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Skeets,
That is the sad part, too many parents feel like the public school system is a built in babysitter/morals class.
They forget their own years in school, when saying F**k got you a week off, now days teachers dont even bat a eye at that, or much worst, because we have placed the value education below the value of gratification.
Its just plain easier to dump the kids there and go do what you want.
If the school sends you kids home for being a jerk, then you get to sue them for denieing your kid his or her education, and most likley you will win.
The only way any type of educational system can ever work is if you grant the school authority to enforce a code of behaviour, and then you, as the parent, enforce the same code at home.
Sadly, it seems that this generation of parents expect their kids to act like the little smart alecks on all the TV sit coms, so of course, they do.
After all, its acceptable on public tv,?
What a bunch of crap.
What I expect from my kids is real simple.
If they see me being rude, farting and burping at the dinner table, cussing at other adults, and generaly acting like the morons on tv, then are free to act the same.
On the other hand, because I chose to follow the same path my parents did, and try to teach by example, they better not even try.
Which means I dont do those things, but I do open doors for women, and hold their chair for them.
I was raised to stand when a woman entered the room, and when she left the table.
I dont use the F word in every other sentence, and have never referred to a woman as a bit*h.
Well, maybe my ex wife, but thats a whole nother story!

My point is, vouchers, food stamps, public or private schooling, it matters not one bit if the message of why, and how you need to learn and behave isnt taught in the one place all kids have to come to, home.

Before I went railroading, I worked for the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, in the child support division as a locate specialist.
Part of my job was recovery of AFDC fraud, what most people refer to as welfare fraud.
Read carefully.
We as a nation, are on the fourth generation of Americans who truly belive the federal goverment owes them cradle to grave care.
They have been raised to belive that the goverment should feed them, subsidise their housing, pay all of their medical bills, including the cost of having their illegitimate children, provide day care, schooling and medical care for those same children, and pay them, the parent, a monthly cash annuity for having had these children, who they will raise to belive the same things.
They dont feel its right for anyone to expect them to work to help support themselves, because they have kids, and never finished high school, and its their right to be cared for, and our duty to provide that care.
It is a entire culture, with its own set of rules and morals, and it exsists side by side with the culture you and I live in, yet most of us dont really know its even there.
If you saw the true figures your state's dept of health and welfare spent, your hair would do more than curl, it would fall right out.
What we spend annually as a nation on our social welfare system could cover the Pentagon's budget for a several years, fund Amtrak, Nasa, and feed the entire population of LA for a year, with some left over.
It is so huge, and so out of control, that no one knows the real dollar amounts anymore, they havent known for years, and publicly admit the fact!
This attitude crosses all color lines, no race is exempt or lives like this anymore that any other, although it is perceived as a "black" lifestyle.
Trust me, it isnt.
I have jailed just as many whites, blacks, spanish and aisians for fraud.
It easy to commit, hard to trace, almost impossible to prosecute, and harder still to get a conviction.
Because we, as a society, accept it as normal, or a premissable lifestyle.
As much money, in the form of food stamps and welfare payments(afdc), is paid out in one month nationally as your states entire annual budget.
I quit the state out of utter frustration, its a no win deal, we dont have enough prisions big enough to hold them all even if we could catch them.

I am glad you have a bible.
After reading both the new and old testiment as a historical treatisy of the life and times of Jesus, and as a religous texbook, I find that, aside from the mythical aspects, it reads as well and true as any other religions text.
It contains lessons all people, regardless of where they are from, should apply in their lives.
Upmost, in my opinion, would be the ten commandments.
One would be hard pressed to find ten better rules to govern ones life by.
Most religions have somewhat the same basic set of "rules".
And, as the grandson of a German Jew who fled his homeland before WWI, and spent the following years in a pow camp outside Alvin, Texas, I know all to well the definition of fascist, along with national socialism and communism.
Dad was a first generation American, who served in the United States Navy from WWII through Vietnam.
My grandfather refused to say Hitlers name, instead he referred to him as "that monster".
Even with almost no english language skills, if asked, my grandfather would proudly refer to himself as "American".
He belived utter and completly in what this county offers, the right to choose.
I understand all to well we dont live in a democratic country, we live in a country governed as a democratic republic.
A true democracy means 100% of the population has to agree 100% of the time on any given issue for it to become law.
Never would this work.
But, as a democratic republic, we elect individules to represent us, and speak with our voice and act in the interest of those who elected them.
We are one of the few countries that can alter our goverments policy every four years, by changing those elected to represent us.
Dont like how things are going right now?
Did you vote last time?
If not, shut up and sit down.
If you did vote, then vote again, this time for change.
Find me a better system.
Untill you can, I intend to ride this horse as far as he will go!
In no way do I intend to insult anyones religion or faith, my very Catholic in laws joking refer to me as that faithless heathen, or that pagen fellow, because I follow no organized religion, although I could claim both the Jewish faith from my grandfather, and the Holy Church of England from my mother.
I chose instead, to look at all religions as a matter of personal faith, because most do teach basicly the same concept, in that all people should strive to be better, not only in their public behaviour, but in their private life as well, and to respect those around them.
Almost all teach that to help those who cant help themselves is a good and wise thing.
If you stop and think about it, the three major religions all use the same phrase over and over in their teachings.
Go with God
Stay Frosty,
Ed