Corporate Criminal Resposiblity?

[chad thomas]

WOW, I truely feel dumber for haveing read this thread !!!!

[rrandb]

The only way for your scenario to work would be if it was known company policy to commit said murder of either a person or another corp. Companies routinely attempt to murder their competitors every day. Thats why there are so few Class I RR's left. They killed off there competition. [xx(] [:O]

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm


Now in the UK, after the Hatfield crash of several years ago, the corporation that maintained the track, along with their Chief Engineer, and several others responsible were charged criminally, in addition to civil suits against them. This was a case where there was a broken rail in a 125 mph curve, and it had been known fo almost a year, and even replacement rail placed along side, but never repaired.

In the end nobody was charged as the Crown Prosecution Service decreed that they were not a controlling mind, it was all frorgotten and Directors escaped with a golden handshake.

[Anonymous]

But who cares?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN

This is the most inane, non relevent question I have ever read on this site.

I thought this was a railroad forum?

Ford

Actually, it's very relevant to US railroads. Think grade crossing accident. Can the XYZ Railroad Corporation be charged with murder? Even criminally negligent homocide? While the corporation may be found liable, it will be individuals who will will be charged with specific crimes against a person.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN

This is the most inane, non relevent question I have ever read on this site.

I thought this was a railroad forum?

Ford

Actually its not. Arthur Anderson was charged criminally, even though it is not a "person" that you could cart off to jail. I think I recall that in the end the criminal conviction against the company was thrown out on appeal.

Now in the UK, after the Hatfield crash of several years ago, the corporation that maintained the track, along with their Chief Engineer, and several others responsible were charged criminally, in addition to civil suits against them. This was a case where there was a broken rail in a 125 mph curve, and it had been known fo almost a year, and even replacement rail placed along side, but never repaired. My point is that legal precidences (sp) run both ways across the Atlantic and you might see this happen here in the US in the future. Our law may not have provisions for it now, but it might be coming. (I think that there may aleardy be provisions in some OSHA laws)

Gabe, any comment?

[Anonymous]

This is the most inane, non relevent question I have ever read on this site.

I thought this was a railroad forum?

Ford

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chaplainmonster

Well what the fruit companys role in central america? Could IBM be held resposible for the death of millions of jews because they sold Germany the machines that were able to help them track down the jews? Back to the railroad
could Union Pacific be held resposible for the holocaust of the Indians by killing the buffalo the Food Supply of the Native Americans? or Manslaughter if railroads knew about faulty grade crossings and did nothing about it?
Arther Anderson was disbanded after the Enron Scandle

Why stop there......why not indict an entire country....say Colombia for killing off all someone's brain cells.....[xx(]

[Anonymous]

Well what the fruit companys role in central america? Could IBM be held resposible for the death of millions of jews because they sold Germany the machines that were able to help them track down the jews? Back to the railroad
could Union Pacific be held resposible for the holocaust of the Indians by killing the buffalo the Food Supply of the Native Americans? or Manslaughter if railroads knew about faulty grade crossings and did nothing about it?
Arther Anderson was disbanded after the Enron Scandle

[ndbprr]

In the event that someone at a corporation commited "premeditated murder" the individual would be brought to justice. You do understand that your premise is that someone planned to kill someone. That is the definition of premeditated. The most you can hold a corporatioujkmn accountable for is accidental death or disregrad of safety procedures or something similar. The only corporation I know of that commits premeditated murder is the mafia.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Just where is Dan when need him now?

Mabee he's busy writeing the sequel to Detective Cinderdick.[:D]

[PBenham]

[;)] OK, I get it![(-D][:-,] Hey, progress is progress. What are you going to do about it, anyhow? The first US president to really lean on the railroads was Teddy Roosevelt, who did more harm to the industry than any train robber, labor leader or terrorist ever could! Then Woodrow Wilson set up the original USRA, whose sole positive contribution to the industry were some very modern 2-8-2s,0-8-0s,light and heavy 4-6-2s, 2-8-8-2s and 4-8-2s, both light and heavy. Beyond that, [xx(]! Then there was TR's distant nephew, who tried to do the socialism thing on the railroads and was legally stopped, a rare instance of the good guys foiling big government. He got a measure of revenge with an outrageous "excess profits"tax scam during WWII. Some of those taxes are still around nearly 65 years later! But TR made the ICC much too powerful for the good of all concerned! THAT one lasted until 1981. Common sense will prevail, it however, may need some time to win out.

[jeaton]

Just where is Dan when need him now?

[Anonymous]

Conrail? Thats intresting because if a "Corperation" is in fact a "Legal entity'or "person" with rights then perhaps it could be charged with Homocide of another corperation or legal entity or person such as when conrail killed the erie laccawanna

[chad thomas]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Old Timer

Whom did the NS pre-meditatedly kill? And how?

Old Timer

I don't know about you, but this thread is killing me.

Please euthanize it as quickly as possible.

[tree68]

Methinks that a specific person or persons would have to be charged with murder/homicide. Inasmuch as a corporation in and of itself is incapable of committing an over physical act.

On the other hand, a corporation could be charged with contributing (or failure to abate) the conditions that caused the death of an employee. If there were state or federal regulations violated, the company would be directly charged.

If the deceased's family wanted relief, they would have to sue. If it can be shown that the actions of one individual or group, acting on the behalf of the corporation, caused said conditions, they could be charged, but probably not with the crime itself.

Of course, I'm probably off base somewhere here, but this is how I perceive it.

[DrummingTrainfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by Old Timer

Whom did the NS pre-meditatedly kill? And how?

Old Timer

Conrail

Well I'd think the Statute of Limitations would've already passed [:o)]. Or is our legal system just that slow?

On a serious note, does anyone have a story about this incident?

[Mookie]

[(-D]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Old Timer

Whom did the NS pre-meditatedly kill? And how?

Old Timer

Conrail

[Anonymous]

Whom did the NS pre-meditatedly kill? And how?

Old Timer

[jeaton]

Check with the attorney. I think only a real person can be charged with the crimes you mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Okay I understand how a corperation which is in fact a legal person could be held reponsible for torts in civil actions but how can a corperation be held reponsible for murder or manslaughter in a criminal proceeding? Do you execute the entire board of directors all at once if for example Norfolk Southern was guilty of pre-meditated murder of one of its employees? Do you hold them on death row? Do you incerate there corperate charter?