I am curious Mookie

[Mookie]

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!

2..... how do loaded rotary coupler coal cars work? Do they pick them up off the track at all? Do they then turn them over and shake them? Do they just tip them over? Do they do just one at a time or can they do several at once?

3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.

4 I have a headache after all that! I have never seen any of this, so keep it simple and remember - I visualize!

Thanx

Mookie

[Mookie]

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!

2..... how do loaded rotary coupler coal cars work? Do they pick them up off the track at all? Do they then turn them over and shake them? Do they just tip them over? Do they do just one at a time or can they do several at once?

3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.

4 I have a headache after all that! I have never seen any of this, so keep it simple and remember - I visualize!

Thanx

Mookie

[JoeKoh]

the little sheds would be signalmen coming to check on the wiring for signals and crossings.the tall towers could be interlocking towers where one train goes from one track to the next usually from a north-soth direction to an east-west direction.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

the little sheds would be signalmen coming to check on the wiring for signals and crossings.the tall towers could be interlocking towers where one train goes from one track to the next usually from a north-soth direction to an east-west direction.
stay safe
joe

[CShaveRR]

Hi, Sis!

I haven't been lucky enough to witness coal-dumping operations in person for a long time, but I think I can give you a few basics.

When the cars are rotary-dumped, the rails go with them. The entire dumping "cylinder" has to be centered on the height of the couplers for this to work, because the cars that aren't being dumped aren't moving. I think the more modern dumpers can handle two coal cars at once.

The dumpers are at, or close to, ground level, so the system depends on adequate conveyor capacity to move the coal to the storage piles...you're talking hundreds of tons per minute, I'd guess.

Dust should be a problem, but I haven't seen too much escape...so I presume that it's kept under control with water.

Now, as for the bottom-dump operations, I've seen a video of these. Trestles are involved, and the cars are just unloaded to the area beneath them. Copious amounts of water keep the dust down. Again, it wouldn't take long to fill the area beneath one of these trestles when you're unloading up to 15,000 tons of coal, so they need to have good conveyor capacity to move it out of the way. This method works much faster that rotary-dumping the cars, because the train can remain in motion (admiddtedly slow motion), but there's no starting and stopping for a precise spot every one or two car-lengths.

Carl

[CShaveRR]

Hi, Sis!

I haven't been lucky enough to witness coal-dumping operations in person for a long time, but I think I can give you a few basics.

When the cars are rotary-dumped, the rails go with them. The entire dumping "cylinder" has to be centered on the height of the couplers for this to work, because the cars that aren't being dumped aren't moving. I think the more modern dumpers can handle two coal cars at once.

The dumpers are at, or close to, ground level, so the system depends on adequate conveyor capacity to move the coal to the storage piles...you're talking hundreds of tons per minute, I'd guess.

Dust should be a problem, but I haven't seen too much escape...so I presume that it's kept under control with water.

Now, as for the bottom-dump operations, I've seen a video of these. Trestles are involved, and the cars are just unloaded to the area beneath them. Copious amounts of water keep the dust down. Again, it wouldn't take long to fill the area beneath one of these trestles when you're unloading up to 15,000 tons of coal, so they need to have good conveyor capacity to move it out of the way. This method works much faster that rotary-dumping the cars, because the train can remain in motion (admiddtedly slow motion), but there's no starting and stopping for a precise spot every one or two car-lengths.

Carl

[Anonymous]

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

[Anonymous]

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

I have seen pics of the rotary dump but C R S is working well today. Should this evil attack leave me and I do remember I will try to let you all know.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

I have seen pics of the rotary dump but C R S is working well today. Should this evil attack leave me and I do remember I will try to let you all know.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

I have seen pics of the rotary dump but C R S is working well today. Should this evil attack leave me and I do remember I will try to let you all know.

Think of a turntable but instead of turning around it turns upside down. [:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

I have seen pics of the rotary dump but C R S is working well today. Should this evil attack leave me and I do remember I will try to let you all know.

Think of a turntable but instead of turning around it turns upside down. [:)]

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

The cars are not uncoupled. At least one couple on each car is a rotary coupler. The car rotates but the coupler stays right side up. Not sure just how the rotating part of the couple is made but it works. You have to make sure when the train is built that two nonrotating couples are not put together. That would make things messy. Some cars, though not very many, have rotating couplers on both ends. It costs more you don't have to worry about how the train is built.

Derrick

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

*Sigh*...confession time...those "bottom dump" coal bins make a conveniant way to get down off the trestle, provided there is a huge pile of coal waiting for you to get a foothold after you slip beneath the ties, helps if you are only an 8 year old moron when you attempt this stunt. But it works quite well.

On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

The cars are not uncoupled. At least one couple on each car is a rotary coupler. The car rotates but the coupler stays right side up. Not sure just how the rotating part of the couple is made but it works. You have to make sure when the train is built that two nonrotating couples are not put together. That would make things messy. Some cars, though not very many, have rotating couplers on both ends. It costs more you don't have to worry about how the train is built.

Derrick

[CShaveRR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates


On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

No judo flips...the whole point is that the cars do not need to be uncoupled, saving a lot of work in making separations, reconnecting air hoses, and so on. The coupler at one end of the car (sometimes both) is designed to swivel. Denoting the end with the swiveling coupler is the reason you see the coal gons (and hoppers) with a contrasting color at one end...be it a band, panel, or solid paint job. The couplers are of the tight-locking variety, preventing accidental uncoupling during this operation.

I might add that a rotary dumper capable of unloading two cars at once would not be bothered by the orientation of the cars...in other words, you could dump cars no matter which way the rotary coupler is facing (if two non-rotary couplers were together, this would be the middle joint on the cars in the dumper...you might have to move the train forward only one car-length instead of two, but it would still stay intact.)

[CShaveRR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates


On the rotary dump (and I've never seen one) it makes sense that the rotating cylinder would be centered "top to bottom" with the coupler, but I'd think some lateral offset would be needed in the "side to side" orientation, to facilitate the "slip" uncoupling, lest you'd otherwise give the most adjacent car a judo flip..

No judo flips...the whole point is that the cars do not need to be uncoupled, saving a lot of work in making separations, reconnecting air hoses, and so on. The coupler at one end of the car (sometimes both) is designed to swivel. Denoting the end with the swiveling coupler is the reason you see the coal gons (and hoppers) with a contrasting color at one end...be it a band, panel, or solid paint job. The couplers are of the tight-locking variety, preventing accidental uncoupling during this operation.

I might add that a rotary dumper capable of unloading two cars at once would not be bothered by the orientation of the cars...in other words, you could dump cars no matter which way the rotary coupler is facing (if two non-rotary couplers were together, this would be the middle joint on the cars in the dumper...you might have to move the train forward only one car-length instead of two, but it would still stay intact.)

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!


2..... how do loaded rotary coupler coal cars work? Do they pick them up off the track at all? Do they then turn them over and shake them? Do they just tip them over? Do they do just one at a time or can they do several at once?

Mookie

There are two types of rotary dumpers. One type handles uncoupled cars only and the other coupled. You have asked about the coupled type. In its simplest terms, you take an open topped car, rotate it 180 degrees, shake it a little, perhaps, and then rotate it back the way it came 180 degrees. As mentioned in the earlier posts, the coupled car rotary dumper requires a design that pivots on the cars center sill alignment. Depending on the design of the dumper, one car only or more than one car can be dumped at a time. I know of one and two car dumpers, but in theory, the entire train could be dumped at once if the dumper is long enough. Being the visual person you are, you can quickly see that dumping an entire train at once is not practical, but what a sight that would be.

Uncoupled car rotary dumpers rotate on a ring that centers on the middle of that ring, and aligns with the track structure when in the upright position. An engine or off-track car mover shoves one or two cars into the rotary, carefully spots them (mass and its location are important with these dumpers), clamps come down from the "top" to hold the car(s) in place, and "around they go". When the dumping has been completed and the car(s) is(are) upright, the clamps come off, and the next cut of cars is pushed against those in the dumper, shoving them out the other end onto a descending slope track where they roll away by force of gravity.

You can do the visualation by taking pieces of paper, cut "small" and in rectangular shape to look like the end of a car, then poke a pen or pencil into the appropriate spot for each type of dumper and "twirl the shaft". Also, in theory, you could make a coupled car rotary that would permit unloading in motion. No one has built one of these things that I know of. There are several really big problems with such a device, and the perhaps the most obvious is - what do you do woth the locomotives? They don't like being upsidedown.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!


2..... how do loaded rotary coupler coal cars work? Do they pick them up off the track at all? Do they then turn them over and shake them? Do they just tip them over? Do they do just one at a time or can they do several at once?

Mookie

There are two types of rotary dumpers. One type handles uncoupled cars only and the other coupled. You have asked about the coupled type. In its simplest terms, you take an open topped car, rotate it 180 degrees, shake it a little, perhaps, and then rotate it back the way it came 180 degrees. As mentioned in the earlier posts, the coupled car rotary dumper requires a design that pivots on the cars center sill alignment. Depending on the design of the dumper, one car only or more than one car can be dumped at a time. I know of one and two car dumpers, but in theory, the entire train could be dumped at once if the dumper is long enough. Being the visual person you are, you can quickly see that dumping an entire train at once is not practical, but what a sight that would be.

Uncoupled car rotary dumpers rotate on a ring that centers on the middle of that ring, and aligns with the track structure when in the upright position. An engine or off-track car mover shoves one or two cars into the rotary, carefully spots them (mass and its location are important with these dumpers), clamps come down from the "top" to hold the car(s) in place, and "around they go". When the dumping has been completed and the car(s) is(are) upright, the clamps come off, and the next cut of cars is pushed against those in the dumper, shoving them out the other end onto a descending slope track where they roll away by force of gravity.

You can do the visualation by taking pieces of paper, cut "small" and in rectangular shape to look like the end of a car, then poke a pen or pencil into the appropriate spot for each type of dumper and "twirl the shaft". Also, in theory, you could make a coupled car rotary that would permit unloading in motion. No one has built one of these things that I know of. There are several really big problems with such a device, and the perhaps the most obvious is - what do you do woth the locomotives? They don't like being upsidedown.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!

Mookie

Those "really tall towers" with men in them watching the trains go by are not rail-fan observation points. They were interlocking towers where men, working for the railroad, operated switches and set signals to control train operations. In the days prior to CTC, they were the only practical methor of controlling railroad crossings and locations where trains could change tracks on multiple track mains.

Those little houses where the towers used to be are equipment sheds (aka relay boxes) where the electronics are housed so that the dispatcher can do the same thing as the interlocking operator. Those people spending time in those little houses are signal maintainers doing their repairs and preventive maintainence.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!

Mookie

Those "really tall towers" with men in them watching the trains go by are not rail-fan observation points. They were interlocking towers where men, working for the railroad, operated switches and set signals to control train operations. In the days prior to CTC, they were the only practical methor of controlling railroad crossings and locations where trains could change tracks on multiple track mains.

Those little houses where the towers used to be are equipment sheds (aka relay boxes) where the electronics are housed so that the dispatcher can do the same thing as the interlocking operator. Those people spending time in those little houses are signal maintainers doing their repairs and preventive maintainence.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.


Mookie

Any design shape or capacity you could desire or imagine. Two basic arrangements - center (between the rails) and side (outside the rails). Also, cross dump (between and outside at the same time!) Can be very messy, depending on design. If you need to clean the rails before the next car is dumped, you have a real lemon of a system.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.


Mookie

Any design shape or capacity you could desire or imagine. Two basic arrangements - center (between the rails) and side (outside the rails). Also, cross dump (between and outside at the same time!) Can be very messy, depending on design. If you need to clean the rails before the next car is dumped, you have a real lemon of a system.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!



3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.



Mookie

Glad to help, Madam Da Mook. Bottom dump cars are sometimes used to spread ballast with a crosstie sliding under the wheels to keep it even with the rail tops. Also, bottom dumps would occasionally open in switching it they coupled too hard. You can visualize that, can't you Mook? Those towers, in an earlier age, were the locations of guys who made the nice green signals red so we couldn't move. Then we'd have to go to the lineside telephone and call these same guys to ask why the signal was red.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I lied - I found another whole list of notes!

1....we have little houses where towers used to be. Carling Tower, Hall Tower
where the well, I am not sure just what they did. They sat in their really tall towers and watched trains all day! So there is part 1. And part 2 is now that we have those little white sheds instead, and MOW comes over every so often and digs around in them. What are they doing in there for so long on a really hot summer day! Or a really cold winter day. Or any day!



3.... bottom dump - coal cars - I understand the concept - give the Mook a break. But when they dump do they neatly dump into a slot, a huge holding tank under the tracks, are they suspended off the rails when they dump, what about coal dust (Yuk) and what about the coal that scatters - if it does - and does it build up and have to be cleaned up before the next car goes thru. And can they dump several at one time or only one at a time.



Mookie

Glad to help, Madam Da Mook. Bottom dump cars are sometimes used to spread ballast with a crosstie sliding under the wheels to keep it even with the rail tops. Also, bottom dumps would occasionally open in switching it they coupled too hard. You can visualize that, can't you Mook? Those towers, in an earlier age, were the locations of guys who made the nice green signals red so we couldn't move. Then we'd have to go to the lineside telephone and call these same guys to ask why the signal was red.

[mudchicken]

Muddy owes Mook a picture of the rotary coal dumper at Holcomb, KS (This rascal not only dumped coal cars, but ripped horns, lights, antennae and air conditioners off the tops of unsuspecting locomotive cabs!)

Central axis of the coal dumping cylinder = drawbar/knuckle of the coal hopper....The colored end of the coal car is generally the rotary knuckle end...

[mudchicken]

Muddy owes Mook a picture of the rotary coal dumper at Holcomb, KS (This rascal not only dumped coal cars, but ripped horns, lights, antennae and air conditioners off the tops of unsuspecting locomotive cabs!)

Central axis of the coal dumping cylinder = drawbar/knuckle of the coal hopper....The colored end of the coal car is generally the rotary knuckle end...

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Muddy owes Mook a picture of the rotary coal dumper at Holcomb, KS (This rascal not only dumped coal cars, but ripped horns, lights, antennae and air conditioners off the tops of unsuspecting locomotive cabs!)

and all for the same price, I imagine! [^]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Muddy owes Mook a picture of the rotary coal dumper at Holcomb, KS (This rascal not only dumped coal cars, but ripped horns, lights, antennae and air conditioners off the tops of unsuspecting locomotive cabs!)

and all for the same price, I imagine! [^]