edblysard>>Chinese Steam Locomotives...

[rrandb]

And I thought you were using a diposable and was politicking to get you a camera. Snapshot or not I will expect to see the fact that you were posted/published to a nationaly known website to appear on your profile/resume.[bow]

[M636C]

These locomotives were built (see news wire) in 1985 and 1986. I visited the plant in late 1985 and although they were only building JS class 2-8-2s while I was there, QJ 7037 was awaiting a buyer and was the highest numbered locomotive built to that time. These (6988 and 7081) were obviously built before and after my visit respectively.

They do have steam operated reversers of a standard US design and copies of Worthington SA type feed water heaters, the pump being behind the shield on the pilot beam.

These locomotives are built to the designs of L.S. Lebedyanski, who designed the post war "L" class 2-10-0 (this was originally known as class "P" for "pobyeda" or "victory" in 1945 but was later reclassed to honour the designer.

The coupled wheels were the same (1500mm, nearly five feet) as the L and the later LV and the cylinders were the same as the LV, but the boiler was based on the larger P34 2-6-6-2 simple articulated but with a deeper firebox. Both the P34 and LV had the trailing coupled wheel under the front of the firebox, requiring a shallower design.

The QJ was designed for a 20 (long) ton axle load, while the P34 was designed for an 18 ton axle load, and thus needed six coupled axles rather than five.

The original locomotives were built in Dalian about 1958 and were known as class HP for "Hoping" = Peace. After some revisions to the boiler design, mainly adding a combustion chamber (the original Russian designs all lacked this) it became known as the QJ (meaning "Progress").

The great majority were built at Datong. Locomotives numbered above 6001 had the large twelve wheel tender, while locos numbered from 101 to about 3500 had a smaller eight wheel tender.

M636C

[edblysard]

Thanks Guys,
But actually, it is shot with a $350.00 Minolta DiMage Z3 digital.
Picked it up on sale at Costco for $299.00.

As much as I loved Kodachrome and my old Canon F1, you just cant beat the cost and convenience of digital...for what I would have spent in film, processing and printing for a year, I can buy a few years worth of batteries and a bigger memory card, plus all the DVDs I want to download it all to.

No Photoshop or enhancements were done to these shots, what you see is what the camera decided was best.
All you have to do is set the perimeters, decide on contrast and color saturation you want, and let the camera do the rest.
This one even shoots video.

Now, if you really think about it, the shots I took are not that great, they fall into the snapshot category...no space to really frame the shot, or get a good angle...the wharves are not that wide enough.
It is high noon; the sun is almost directly above the subject.
The only saving grace is the fact that the warehouse gave us a little shade and the reflection off the water created some side lighting to tone down and fill in some of the shadows.
But the subject matter makes up for the quality of the shots.

Which is what I keep telling the younger guys who gripe about their photos being rejected by some websites....almost anyone can get a wedge shot or a builders shot of any locomotive...I mean, after a few times, all Dash 9s kinda look the same, right?

But if you look at Eric and Mike’s photos in their contest, quite often they get away from the standard wedge, and the locomotive is not the focal point of their photos, the "train" and its location is.

How many photos have you seen of the top of a Dash 9?
How many have you seen on out the cab window?
How often do you see steam locomotives on flat cars?
The unusual, or the really attractive paint job, or the shot of a train doing something besides just sitting there, that is what will get your photos noticed.

Ed

[rrandb]

Congradulations Ed for geting your photo on the Kalmbach/Trains/News Wire. Pretty rare as I do not remember the last time they used an amature photo. Maybe if UP or AP picks it up the royaties will cover some film and developing charges. Better yet Bergie could loan you his old Rebel when Nikon updates it. You must see lots of news worthy stuff. KUDOS. [tup] [swg] [:D][^]

[edblysard]

Would say coal, because the tenders have no covers, they are open topped, and fuel oil leaves a horrible mess...the undersides of these were relaitivly clean.
Add in the shelf or scoop on the front of the tenders, and no appearent oil hose connection...
Ed

[malcolmyoung]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rockisland4309

Are both of the locomotives coal burners or oil burners?

The photographs of the tenders clearly show a coal space and the photo of the rear of the locomotive clearly shows the tube for the stoker auger, so I think it is a safe bet that they are coal burners.
Malc.

[rockisland4309]

Are both of the locomotives coal burners or oil burners?

[malcolmyoung]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

If you examine pic 13 (the one of the rear side) it appears as the handle is connected to the bottom of the firebox through that red painted linkage, which would make it the ashpan dump.

I am a bit concerned about the lenght of that handle if it's for the reverser,, it seems a bit short. There's 2 issues. One is the amount of throw that you'd get with a thing that short wouldn't be very much, and secondly the force required to move it with the motion connected to it would be tremendous, unless it was a steam assisted reverser. Does anyone know when they were built?

The red pull out handle appears to be connected to a blowdown valve just above the firebox foundation ring.
On a locomotive of this size, a power operated reverser is a necessity rather than a luxury, it is most likely to be air operated.
Malc.

[Hugh Jampton]

If you examine pic 13 (the one of the rear side) it appears as the handle is connected to the bottom of the firebox through that red painted linkage, which would make it the ashpan dump.

I am a bit concerned about the lenght of that handle if it's for the reverser,, it seems a bit short. There's 2 issues. One is the amount of throw that you'd get with a thing that short wouldn't be very much, and secondly the force required to move it with the motion connected to it would be tremendous, unless it was a steam assisted reverser. Does anyone know when they were built?

[edblysard]

Ok, the upright handle...now that I look at it closer, it appears to be a ratchet or locking type handle, which would make sense, you wouldn't want to be able to "knock" it into reverse by accident.
Ok, so whats the red "pull out" handle just to the left of the reverser?
Sander?
Ash pan dump?
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

Re: Reverse Lever - I'm figuring the red handle to the left of the train brake:

Since the driver's position seems to be a mirror image of a right-hand drive loco, that would positioned just right.

[wallyworld]

Theres a good article on steam still working in China on the RYPN website.


http://www.rypn.org/

[tree68]

Re: Reverse Lever - I'm figuring the red handle to the left of the train brake:

Since the driver's position seems to be a mirror image of a right-hand drive loco, that would positioned just right.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Do you mean the controls are left hand drive / steering wheel on firemans side. LOL. They're not Chinese ther're "English".

The Brits built many of China's railroads and they still use lefthand running.

[edblysard]

"Tis the number of the beast"...no, wait, that was seven days ago...guess Pops explaination works better....[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Soo2610

Nice shots Ed. Didn't hear about these things coming until I read about it on the forum. By the way, how did you manage to post about six messages on this topic and all of them are numbered message number 4641? Sounds like Trains adding machine got stuck.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Soo2610

By the way, how did you manage to post about six messages on this topic and all of them are numbered message number 4641? Sounds like Trains adding machine got stuck.

It is a running cumulative number that changes on all of the posts you've made so it always shows your current total.

[Soo2610]

Nice shots Ed. Didn't hear about these things coming until I read about it on the forum. By the way, how did you manage to post about six messages on this topic and all of them are numbered message number 4641? Sounds like Trains adding machine got stuck.

[rrandb]

Do you mean the controls are left hand drive / steering wheel on firemans side. LOL. They're not Chinese ther're "English".

[edblysard]

rrandb brings up a good point...
Back before we bought the MK1500Ds, with their BB trucks, we leased just about anything we could get our hands on for motive power.
GP7s, 9 and 38s, old SD9s, even had a few SW9s, and one of UP's SW10 rebuilds.
Experience taught most of us that you dont take a six axle locomotive down in the docks past a certain point, unless you wanted to chew up pavement.
With the movable frog point turnouts and flush set rail, and the tight tight curves to get around the buildings, you were sure to get one on the ground.

If the Chinese locomotives had been set on the rail instead of the flats, they couldnt move more than a few hundred feet before they would have to try and get through a sharp turn, and a few really unforgiving turnouts.

Ed

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

the ten wheels might not work on some curves, so forth and so on, you get the point...
And I assume the owner wanted them shipped this way in the first place, saves wear and tear and miles on his locomotives and gets rid of the problems mentioned above.
Ed

The comments about the drivers and the effect of 10 wheels on the curves makes me wonder how useful these would be to the new owner?

Once you get out on "real" (place tounge in cheek here Ed) class I, II, or even III track with out the sharper curves that can be found in some ports, yards or general switching situations there is no problem. Remember many rairoads had 10 wheelers(not 4-6-0's) or 5 coupled engines. Some where else Ed mentioned their track had to be ground more often and replaced more often due to extreme swicthing curvature? While I am quite sure the Chinese built adequate lateral play in the drivers this was built as a main line steam engine not a dock switcher. It would be like trying to bring UP's Challenger to the docks. Not the right place for it.[2c]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Couple of reasons...
Those drivers would beat the crud out of the track for one.
They are not completly FRA compliant,
The unions would want to treat them as a locomotive, instead of a railcar,
and rolling on their own wheels, they would have to go on the head end of the train, which means they would have to bear the entire trailing weight of the train, have working air brakes, the ten wheels might not work on some curves, so forth and so on, you get the point...
And I assume the owner wanted them shipped this way in the first place, saves wear and tear and miles on his locomotives and gets rid of the problems mentioned above.
Ed

The comments about the drivers and the effect of 10 wheels on the curves makes me wonder how useful these would be to the new owner?

[edblysard]

Was looking at the inside cab shot...I can figure out the throttle, the independent and train brake, and the speedo plus the air guage...but the rest of the controls are...well, Chinese to me...anybody got a clue?
Which one would be the reverse handle?
And they are on the "wrong" side...[:D]

The rear shot showing the underside of the cab...guessing here, but the hose connection, about 6 or 8" dia dead center of the cab floor, is for the water feed from the tender?
Would have to have a flex hose hook up, but if this part only used gravity feed, and a pump/pick up system was in the locomotive proper, it makes sense to me.
One of you steam guys needs to explain it to us "motor" guys...
Ed

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Email me ahead of time and we will arrange something...
On thurs or friday, I am off, and we can spent a little more time poking around, do lunch or something.
Any other day, if you show up at North Yard between 06:30 and 14:30, I will be switching the lead under/in front of the yard control tower.
Come on down, we will leave the light on!

Ed

(Dave is a half man?...whats the other half?)[:D]

That is more than kind. I've only ever toured the Port Canaveral and KSC (Kennedy space center not KC southern) rail line and the rails do not meet the water. Even the dime tour was impressive.Thanks again.P.S. Scientist are having that same problem with the universe. They say half of it is missing. It's on the TLC.[:D][:p]

[edblysard]

Email me ahead of time and we will arrange something...
On thurs or friday, I am off, and we can spent a little more time poking around, do lunch or something.
Any other day, if you show up at North Yard between 06:30 and 14:30, I will be switching the lead under/in front of the yard control tower.
Come on down, we will leave the light on!

Ed

(Dave is a half man?...whats the other half?)[:D]

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Thanks, RRandB.
The invite to Dave was serious, once upon a time.
Now, while I cant really let you pull pins or line switches, I can promise you the dime tour of the PTRA if you show up.
Ed

No problem on the pins. I would be suprised if corperate would let Dave no matter how many waivers he signed. Even if you made him employee for a day the unions might bark. LOL. I will be on a jaunt to move my daughter from DC to Mobil AL. Might sgueeze a day trip to Houston on way back to KC. Have a sister-in-law in Sugarland might put me up on the couch. I just might take you up on that if you make it the fifty cent tour minus the pins and switches. I know I'll never be half the man Dave is. LOL

[edblysard]

Thanks, RRandB.
The invite to Dave was serious, once upon a time.
Now, while I cant really let you pull pins or line switches, I can promise you the dime tour of the PTRA if you show up.

Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Ok, they are off the ship and on the flats...I sent some photos out to a few folks, hopefully one or two of them can post some of them here...got the ok to do so from our trainmaster.
Yes, if they post one with a skinny guy in front of the locomotives, that is me.
Sorry about the snapshot quality, couldnt step back any more, unless I wanted to go swiming in the ship channel.[xx(]

Note the engineer stands on the left side....

Cant tell you what route they will take, or who is carrying them, thats privledged info I am not a liberity to release, but watch UP and BNSF's websites.

If you want a few photos e mail me with an email address I can send them to...
Ed

Hey Ed. Pretty impressive. I think most of us would take you up on that offer "To watch a sorrya** operation manned by folks like Ed" anytime. Where did you say to post that address. LOL!!!!! Not too many people can still load steam on a flat car. Looks good.[:D]

[edblysard]

Couple of reasons...
Those drivers would beat the crud out of the track for one.
They are not completly FRA compliant,
The unions would want to treat them as a locomotive, instead of a railcar,
and rolling on their own wheels, they would have to go on the head end of the train, which means they would have to bear the entire trailing weight of the train, have working air brakes, the ten wheels might not work on some curves, so forth and so on, you get the point...
And I assume the owner wanted them shipped this way in the first place, saves wear and tear and miles on his locomotives and gets rid of the problems mentioned above.
Ed

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

OK, dumb question: Why can't they be shipped rolling on their own wheels?

Thanks for posting pics guys.[:D]

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with FRA certification. I don't think they're officially recognized by the FRA as "railroad equipment" yet, and so they get shipped as freight on a flat car that is certified.

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I can clear it up a little better than that.

[Murphy Siding]

OK, dumb question: Why can't they be shipped rolling on their own wheels?

Thanks for posting pics guys.[:D]

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas
And thanks for hosting them Chris.

Shoot...that's easy. Ed's just lucky that they got through the screener over at www.pbase.com/copcarss! That place always rejects my photos![:p][:o)][(-D]