Schneider Charters Trains - this is a WOW!

[Doublestack]

Didn't Schneider have a bunch of Triple crown style road railers made up as well?

With NS serving all the way west to KC, maybe thses two are staged for a showdown in this corridor?

Had some, tried them, found it too difficult to create large enough blocks of freight in dedicated lanes to run strickly road-railer trains.  Got rid of them about 10 yrs ago.  Also, they're heavy (heavier frame rails) so they carry less cargo.

Now if you're like Triple Crown and you're carrying light auto panels, etc in dedicated lanes between assy plants - different deal.

[Anonymous]

Heh.

**Rubs rag with a happy face....

Roight. Put the box to the dock. Load box. Arrange the transport, catch the train get to the train at the other end get box to customer or onto ship and it's done.

You cannot do that below a certain distance because it is literally unweildy due to the time consumed getting the load run.

The word "Over the Road" trucking to me is dead. That is not intermodal.

Reaching back to my early days I see a Intermodal train carrying 300 Boxes give or take a few to a place several states away and a old driver said:

"Yep, no need to buy 300 sleeper trucks, hire 300 long haul drivers or pay all that desiel and payroll as well as the excrucitating paperwork on each load."

Stick it all on the train and have a bunch of daycab locals at the yard with dispatchers hollaring "Fetch!" everytime a train came in with it's burden.

Who knew?

I suppose a company willing to be flexible to use all modes availible to get a load of widgets there first, cheaper and faster than the competition will get the hire.

Maybe the Orange Fleet finally used all 4 sides to a box that can break the company speed limit. =)

(Sorry, had to put that in to amuse the old truckers who knows the game)

The midwest is a tough tough game to play in from a trucker's point of view.

The intermodal market is tough in any market;, a key to operating success is having a semblence of balance between inbound and outbound traffic, this assures work for your driver pool. Another issue that plays into this picture is troublesome to many companies, and it is driver satisfaction. Young drivers who do not have the work ethic of an industry that grew up on the backs of drivers who were willing to wink at the law, throw their 'funny book' in the bunk and haul butt. The drivers nowadays want, and deserve to run 'legal'; they want to be home far too often. They do not understand the natural 'currents' in the flow of traffic in this country and how very cyclical it is. They fail to understand that getting home often costs them money, the best resolution for them is a regional style operation; ie, Intermodal, that will keep them in their home area. Which gets us back to a balance of volume for a regional, and a large enough driver pool to cover the loads. Swift used to operate a Triple Crown type operation out on the West Coast [ called it the I-5 Corridor...., something or other]; it worked for them for some time, their own dedicated train on their schedule. Schneider and JB [Hunt] are both large enough to pull off point to point regional operations. Some time back there were attempts to run intermodal trains from the Mid-South area, Memphis, Tn. up into New Jersey and have loads delivered by a regional fleet [I think it was to be a JB Hunt Operation, but do not know if it ever got off the ground, the partner carrier was  CSX,or ??? and CSX at the time]. As some of you are aware, the upper East Coast is not an area that many drivers want to be-anytime.  So it would have been a pretty good sell in the trucking business, but the problem was finding enough non-union drivers to support the balance up there.   

Whew, old thread.

J.B. Hunt did get it rolling. I think there is a little yellow company book sitting somewhere that shows the 200 some railroad yards that we can get a box to and from at will as long we have the right trailer and chassis for it. Sometimes we drop off a load have it on a train going east and collect another valuable load also heading east.

Regarding the Driver work ethic, that is finished here. Too many young drivers who want everything and never go anywhere long enough to get it. Work local, stay close to home for those with families or homesickness, let the rest run long haul.

It is becoming my humble opinion that the railroads ripped and tore up WAY TOO MUCH industrial trackage and only want everything shipped to 5 major cities to be set 2000 miles somewhere on a train.

[Brooklyn Trolley Dodger]

So... Would there be a STB filing showing how much CSX is getting for the train?

Also intresting that Marion was a major Erie-Laccawanna Crossroads

[samfp1943]

Heh.

**Rubs rag with a happy face....

Roight. Put the box to the dock. Load box. Arrange the transport, catch the train get to the train at the other end get box to customer or onto ship and it's done.

You cannot do that below a certain distance because it is literally unweildy due to the time consumed getting the load run.

The word "Over the Road" trucking to me is dead. That is not intermodal.

Reaching back to my early days I see a Intermodal train carrying 300 Boxes give or take a few to a place several states away and a old driver said:

"Yep, no need to buy 300 sleeper trucks, hire 300 long haul drivers or pay all that desiel and payroll as well as the excrucitating paperwork on each load."

Stick it all on the train and have a bunch of daycab locals at the yard with dispatchers hollaring "Fetch!" everytime a train came in with it's burden.

Who knew?

I suppose a company willing to be flexible to use all modes availible to get a load of widgets there first, cheaper and faster than the competition will get the hire.

Maybe the Orange Fleet finally used all 4 sides to a box that can break the company speed limit. =)

(Sorry, had to put that in to amuse the old truckers who knows the game)

The midwest is a tough tough game to play in from a trucker's point of view.

The intermodal market is tough in any market;, a key to operating success is having a semblence of balance between inbound and outbound traffic, this assures work for your driver pool. Another issue that plays into this picture is troublesome to many companies, and it is driver satisfaction. Young drivers who do not have the work ethic of an industry that grew up on the backs of drivers who were willing to wink at the law, throw their 'funny book' in the bunk and haul butt. The drivers nowadays want, and deserve to run 'legal'; they want to be home far too often. They do not understand the natural 'currents' in the flow of traffic in this country and how very cyclical it is. They fail to understand that getting home often costs them money, the best resolution for them is a regional style operation; ie, Intermodal, that will keep them in their home area. Which gets us back to a balance of volume for a regional, and a large enough driver pool to cover the loads. Swift used to operate a Triple Crown type operation out on the West Coast [ called it the I-5 Corridor...., something or other]; it worked for them for some time, their own dedicated train on their schedule. Schneider and JB [Hunt] are both large enough to pull off point to point regional operations. Some time back there were attempts to run intermodal trains from the Mid-South area, Memphis, Tn. up into New Jersey and have loads delivered by a regional fleet [I think it was to be a JB Hunt Operation, but do not know if it ever got off the ground, the partner carrier was  CSX,or ??? and CSX at the time]. As some of you are aware, the upper East Coast is not an area that many drivers want to be-anytime.  So it would have been a pretty good sell in the trucking business, but the problem was finding enough non-union drivers to support the balance up there.   

[brewtus]

When the containers reach Kansas city,they are offloaded in the KCS Intermodal yard,the containers bound for the west coast are moved by truck across town to the BNSF yard,or ,in the case of trailers,they either go by truck to the BNSF or they are moved by truck about 2 blocks to the UP Intermodal yard.Anything going to Texas is loaded onto cars bound for Texas by KCS.

[rrandb]

Since the very begining of TOFC the Florida East Coast Railway has been both a railroad and a trucking company. They own both tractors and trailers for TOFC use. If it either leave or arrives on their rails they want the rubber tire dollars as well. It is not the railroads VS trucking but that the railroad is the trucking company as well as warehousing etc.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by funnelfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Now, if railroads could only get themselves to re-try ro-ro TOFC, we could get those tanker trailers, chip trucks, log trucks, and flatbeds over by rail as well. Why limit TOFC to boxes?

Those kind of trucks are being used in short markets for the most part, often within 200-300 miles. Intermodal would have a very hard time breaking into those markets.

Well, you have the same scenario with those types of trailers as you once had with dry vans and reefers. I have spoken with several folks in the wood products industry, and they are getting more and more chip trucks and log trucks coming in from significant distances. The port of entry at Eastport ID reports more and more chip trucks and grain trucks coming down from Canada. Flatbeds are generally considered over the road trucks as well.

The point is, you have two basic problems with these types of trailers. One, they are not constructed for lift on lift off actions. Secondly, the railroad sees this as low value commodities, and such should move by more efficient rail hopper and such, not TOFC, even though the trucking firms in this case would be just as glad to utilize TOFC to save on the costs of training more drivers, wear and tear on tires and road gear, etc. There is just as much of an opportunity for railroads to transport these types of trailers if enough are available to form a decent sized train. If the railroads start transporting chip trailers, grain trailers, and flatbed trailers via TOFC, what'll happen to those expensive investments in those 100 ton hoppers? Perception is reality, and as long as railroads see trucking companies as "the competition" they'll continue to miss out on more transportation opportunities.

For some perspective and a general example, it costs the typical trucking firm about $1.60 per mile to haul a basic load, and they charge their client around $1.75 per mile to make a profit. For a 500 mile haul, they are charging $875 and netting (hopefully, if nothing goes wrong) $75. Assuming there is a viable rail line with available TOFC terminal facilities on both ends, the railroad might charge a trucking firm $700 per trailer, with 100 trailers grossing $70,000 per trip for the railroad. Thus, the trucking firm could up their net by $100 to $175, and if the railroad could add 15 non conventional trailers to their current TOFC, they gross another $10,500, which would usually turn out to be extra net since fixed costs are already covered by the usual 100 trailers.

But the railroad would see grain trailers and chip trailers as *competition* to their fleet of grain and wood chip hoppers, even though origins are not the same. So although the net is higher per ton on TOFC than with shuttle consists in this scenario, the railroad will not touch it. No point in the intermodal division pissing off the ag division, is there?

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Didn't Schneider have a bunch of Triple crown style road railers made up as well?

With NS serving all the way west to KC, maybe thses two are staged for a showdown in this corridor?

Schneider aparently odered "a bunch" of RoadRailers some years ago, then backed out of the order.

I drive SB on I-94 toward Chicago every workday. I am amazed by the number of Schneider tractors pulling domestic IM containers NB. Several of the tractors are always "Day Cabs".

Now that's a sea change, Schneider tractors w/o bunks pulling IM containers.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kevin C. Smith

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

Sorry, having a little fun today. I'll behave now.

If you're misbehaving, you'll have to mow my yard as a penance.

(Well, it was worth a try...)

Sorry, just finished wrestling with several acres worth of field grass that I left alone a few weeks too long. =)

[Kevin C. Smith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

Sorry, having a little fun today. I'll behave now.

If you're misbehaving, you'll have to mow my yard as a penance.

(Well, it was worth a try...)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Now, if railroads could only get themselves to re-try ro-ro TOFC, we could get those tanker trailers, chip trucks, log trucks, and flatbeds over by rail as well. Why limit TOFC to boxes?

Those kind of trucks are being used in short markets for the most part, often within 200-300 miles. Intermodal would have a very hard time breaking into those markets.

[Anonymous]

Didn't Schneider have a bunch of Triple crown style road railers made up as well?

With NS serving all the way west to KC, maybe thses two are staged for a showdown in this corridor?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Now, if railroads could only get themselves to re-try ro-ro TOFC, we could get those tanker trailers, chip trucks, log trucks, and flatbeds over by rail as well. Why limit TOFC to boxes?

Chips? Hmm. The fertilizer? wood chips? Potato Chips?

Sorry, having a little fun today. I'll behave now.

You mean . . . manure chips don't you. [:o)] [8D] [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Now, if railroads could only get themselves to re-try ro-ro TOFC, we could get those tanker trailers, chip trucks, log trucks, and flatbeds over by rail as well. Why limit TOFC to boxes?

Please god, no flatbeds.

That train will shake it right off the track.

Log trucks are local anyhow.

Mostly gas tankers and they either are empty rolling back to refill or filling a gas station =)

Chips? Hmm. The fertilizer? wood chips? Potato Chips?

Sorry, having a little fun today. I'll behave now.

[Anonymous]

Now, if railroads could only get themselves to re-try ro-ro TOFC, we could get those tanker trailers, chip trucks, log trucks, and flatbeds over by rail as well. Why limit TOFC to boxes?

[Anonymous]

Heh.

**Rubs rag with a happy face....

Roight. Put the box to the dock. Load box. Arrange the transport, catch the train get to the train at the other end get box to customer or onto ship and it's done.

You cannot do that below a certain distance because it is literally unweildy due to the time consumed getting the load run.

The word "Over the Road" trucking to me is dead. That is not intermodal.

Reaching back to my early days I see a Intermodal train carrying 300 Boxes give or take a few to a place several states away and a old driver said:

"Yep, no need to buy 300 sleeper trucks, hire 300 long haul drivers or pay all that desiel and payroll as well as the excrucitating paperwork on each load."

Stick it all on the train and have a bunch of daycab locals at the yard with dispatchers hollaring "Fetch!" everytime a train came in with it's burden.

Who knew?

I suppose a company willing to be flexible to use all modes availible to get a load of widgets there first, cheaper and faster than the competition will get the hire.

Maybe the Orange Fleet finally used all 4 sides to a box that can break the company speed limit. =)

(Sorry, had to put that in to amuse the old truckers who knows the game)

The midwest is a tough tough game to play in from a trucker's point of view.

[edblysard]

Oh crap...
I think I need the large popcorn and a liter Coke for this!

Hang on a second while I run to the corner store....
Ed[8D]

[Clutch Cargo]

/ the penny drops......

Now I`ve got it...Dave and Greyhounds are best friends.
They outline these arguements durring happy hour down at Bodacious TA-TA`s on main street.

How about a nice round of applause for these two?

Kurt

[Anonymous]

I read about this agreement somewhere a day or so ago. Hopefully this might mean some KCS power running through Terre Haute...

[Anonymous]

You still don't get it, do you? Your first clue is the phrase "over the road".

Intermodal competition isn't railroads vs trucking companies. It's railroad tracks vs highways. Trucking companies use both highways and railroad tracks, they can go either route, they don't care. Railroad companies only want to use railroad tracks. Therein lies the conundrum.

It isn't "trucks vs trains" anymore. It's railroads fighting their own self-imposed llimitations of using only their own railroad tracks that prevents railroad companies from evolving into true transporation companies.

But I digress. Good for Schneider being willing to use multiple modes to serve their customers. That's progressive thinking, albeit nothing new.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poppa_Zit

greyhounds --

Bad link.

It's fixed. I apologize for, and deeply regret, my error.

I shall now go mow my grass as penance.

[Poppa_Zit]

greyhounds --

Bad link.

[greyhounds]

www.schneider.com/news/FINAL_Marion_Release.html

This is good. It's good competition for over the road trucking.

There is an artificial 'break point' in the US rail network that hinders competition with over the road trucking. It's the 'break' at Chicago. St. Louis, Memphis, etc between the eastern railroads and the western railroads.

CSX couldn't make a dollar hauling intermodal freight from Ohio to St. Louis interchange because the line haul miles wouldn't offset the terminal costs. And KCS couldn't make any money on the St. Louis-KC run. So generally intermodal originating in that area would be trucked to a western railroad's ramp. It's called "discrepancy of assortment" in business school lingo. No one manufactuer of railroad transportation could serve the market.

This calls for a "middleman", in this case Schneider, who will combine the transportation production of CSX and KCS to serve the market need.

I've got a high expectation that this will be very successful. And we can look for more such operations. And more successful competition with over the road trucking.