Is boxcar graffiti an art form or an eyesore ?

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by falconer

There is a Federal Railroad Aministration ruling that freight cars must have reflective striping for higher visibilty at grade crossings.

The Tagging form of graffiti will end up painting over these stripes on boxcars.

Take a look at Wisconsin Central Boxcars that have been tagged.

Tagging is a safety hazard

Andrew F.

You could try encouraging the graffittiers to use reflective paint..

[Modelcar]

...This unending question of graffiti: Same answer in thought as I always provide....It's against the law and is simply destroying someone else's property....Art or not....

[Anonymous]

I thought that the UP "flag" loco's were some taggers idea of a joke until I started seeing dirty ones and realized that UP was doing it intentionally. [banghead]

[Anonymous]

Yes, I would think that railroads would be taking a liability risk in moving a car that had its side reflectors obscurred by graffiti. They are said to be paint resistant, but I suspect that they could be readily covered with paint.

[Anonymous]

There is a Federal Railroad Aministration ruling that freight cars must have reflective striping for higher visibilty at grade crossings.

The Tagging form of graffiti will end up painting over these stripes on boxcars.

Take a look at Wisconsin Central Boxcars that have been tagged.

Tagging is a safety hazard

Andrew F.

[Anonymous]

I had a though occur to me the other day about the topic that comes around every so often about when did railroad graffiti appear. The first railroad graffiti wasn’t on the cars, it was on things like water towers, where hobos would carve information (about the locals and what train the took to where). This would have gone on for a long time, since the early days of bumming (right?). In fact Jack London wrote a story about hobos, that's what gave me this idea. Any body got any models out there with hobo markings on the water tower?

Incidently I vote eyesore.

[vsmith]

My usuall answer to this raging debate.....



[:0][;)][:D]

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

Therefore,
it should be shunned by us all.

it's a free country, ya know?

I think it is wrong, would never do it myself, but I also don't think being a "snitch" has even the slightest shred of respectability, either.

When I see particularly well done graphic graffiti, I reserve the right to be impressed, irrespective of what someone else thinks my morals are "supposed" to be.

I don't know this is a discussion of 'morals'. The whole reason we have laws is because everyones' morals are different. I would have to agree with you, though, sometimes the work is very artistic. Still illegal and juvenille, but artistic.

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HuskerHank

Get a grip people. Its a boxcar owned by a distant and disinterested corporation. Private property, trespassing, the end of western civilization, etc etc etc, but its still a boxcar. The railroad could care less about what the boxcar looks like, so why should I? I can't help but notice that containers are very rarely painted or over the road trucks. I guess thats because somebody does care about their appearance and willing to protect it and repaint it when it does get tagged.

Actually when the Wisconsin Central was in full swing Bill Burkhardt (I think he was the big chesse) said that the railroad was making an effort to keep the rolling stock clean - in order to encourage new business and to keep the business that they had. The reasoning was that a clean and presentable boxcar (yes it is just a boxcar) with the company logo on it was the best salesmen they could have. It must have worked out pretty good for them because they worked miracles with traffic on the old Soo Line tracks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

Great response AntiGates!

I respect your opinion, but it is the philosophy that "if it appears not to hurt anyone and it does not bother me" that has allowed crime to escalate in America.
We should be concerned when we see other persons or their property damaged.
A flippant attitude, a c'est la guerre, what-me-worry, and the such like is a sad commentary on the state of America.

Well, let's just say where I'm going after I die, having to pay the gas bill will never be a problem.. On the positive side, I'm fairly sure most of my friends will be there too....so, why worry? [;)]

Question related but slightly off topic. Fireworks are illegal in many states, so should we be reporting anyone who sets off a fire cracker?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Vandalism of corporate property just doesn't bother me. I see it as being very different from vandalism of individual or public property. Do the railroads really care? Or do they just like to make examples of a selected few whom they manage to catch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. The bigger the stink, the more people want to do it.

Railroad cars make the perfect mobile canvas. They are parked in remote locations for long periods of time. There is a low risk of being caught. What do you expect?

[joesap1]

Great response AntiGates!

I respect your opinion, but it is the philosophy that "if it appears not to hurt anyone and it does not bother me" that has allowed crime to escalate in America.
We should be concerned when we see other persons or their property damaged.
A flippant attitude, a c'est la guerre, what-me-worry, and the such like is a sad commentary on the state of America.

[chad thomas]

Makes mental note: Don't let anti around my women.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1



Since it's a free country, then I should have the right to take a gun and shoot you.

What? You object?

Oh and A-Hem...then you'd have to deal with me.....I suspect it would be you praying for a cop to intervene.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

To " The AntiGates " who said: "it's a free country, ya know?"

Since it's a free country, then I should have the right to take a gun and shoot you.

What? You object?

Laws, particularly the moral laws that killing and stealing are considered wrong by almost everybody, keep us together as a free country.
We are not free to deface what does not belong to us.

I wasn't saying that this being a free country gave the perpetrators the unfettered right to do the deed

My pointing out that it was a free country was more directed towards the assertion made that "it should be shunned by us all."

As in - please don't try to make that decision for me-.

If somone happens to enjoy watching graffiti'd cars roll by, and they have not done the tagging themselves, what business is it of anybody's if they "shun" or "relish" the visual opportunity?.


Lust is a sin too, but if some young hottie drops a dollar in front of me and bends over to pick it up, I'll be darned if I will shun the opportunity to nurture lust in my heart

[chad thomas]

Lets see

Spend millions of dollars to secure thousands of miles of track......
Or spend thousands of dollars to repaint the graffitied cars......
Or do nothing.

I don't think the share holders give a rats .... if the cars are graffitied.

And before someone says what if it was your house / car / bussiness....Well I live in the city these days and it happens to me from time to time (at work anyway). It's just a part of city liveing you have to deal with. There is nothing you can do about it (Realisticly).[banghead]

[joesap1]

To " The AntiGates " who said: "it's a free country, ya know?"

Since it's a free country, then I should have the right to take a gun and shoot you.

What? You object?

Laws, particularly the moral laws that killing and stealing are considered wrong by almost everybody, keep us together as a free country.
We are not free to deface what does not belong to us.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HuskerHank

Get a grip people. Its a boxcar owned by a distant and disinterested corporation. Private property, trespassing, the end of western civilization, etc etc etc, but its still a boxcar. The railroad could care less about what the boxcar looks like, so why should I? I can't help but notice that containers are very rarely painted or over the road trucks. I guess thats because somebody does care about their appearance and willing to protect it and repaint it when it does get tagged.

It's not that the railroads don't care about the boxcar, It's just that boxcars and other types of cars like covered hoppers spend more time in places where they are more suseptable. On the other hand intermodal containers spend most of there time in secure yards on on boats where the taggers can't get to them. Plus the intermodal stuff is not as old as a lot of other cars.

I don't condone it myself and of course would never do it myself but there is no sense in getting all worked up over it. The war on graffiti would be quite futile.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates



I think it is wrong, would never do it myself, but I also don't think being a "snitch" has even the slightest shred of respectability, either.

Amen brother !!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

Therefore,
it should be shunned by us all.

it's a free country, ya know?

I think it is wrong, would never do it myself, but I also don't think being a "snitch" has even the slightest shred of respectability, either.

When I see particularly well done graphic graffiti, I reserve the right to be impressed, irrespective of what someone else thinks my morals are "supposed" to be.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joesap1

How come no one is ever caught in the act????????

Like the one who stepped back to admire his work and got smacked by another train? I'm sure they get caught, but there's so many of them, and so few people to catch them. Besides, I'm sure they work in teams...

QUOTE: Originally posted by antigates
LOL, somebody ought to "warbonnetize" some of UP's bland armour yellow locos

At the risk of inciting someone to do something illegal - repainting an entire car (which I have seen done by taggers) in a fallen flag scheme?

[HuskerHank]

Get a grip people. Its a boxcar owned by a distant and disinterested corporation. Private property, trespassing, the end of western civilization, etc etc etc, but its still a boxcar. The railroad could care less about what the boxcar looks like, so why should I? I can't help but notice that containers are very rarely painted or over the road trucks. I guess thats because somebody does care about their appearance and willing to protect it and repaint it when it does get tagged.

[chad thomas]

3 pages on graffiti without a flame war is what's amazing. This topic usually gets quite heated. And yes this topic comes up all the time.

[joesap1]

I am always amazed at which topics draw the most response. Here is the subject of boxcar graffiti and we have 3 pages of response. Incredible.

This must be yet another example of the moral decline of America. Painting another person's property without their permission is legally and morally wrong. Therefore,
it should be shunned by us all.
I hate seeing graffitti on a railway car and it certainly spoils rail fanning. The sight of a vandal's work on a freshly repainted or new rail car is particularly disgusting.
How come no one is ever caught in the act????????

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

So how many of you guys have graffiti on you model trains? I have done several cars. Some with micro scale decals and some hand painted and some with both. Although the percentage of my cars that are graffitied is probably less then 2% it really adds to the realism.

How 'bout some photo's of your layout?

Wish I could. Unfortunately I'm liveing in a small apartment these days and all my stuff is in storeage [:(] with the exception of a string of 89' TTX flats w/ 40' UPS trailers I bought a while back.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

So how many of you guys have graffiti on you model trains? I have done several cars. Some with micro scale decals and some hand painted and some with both. Although the percentage of my cars that are graffitied is probably less then 2% it really adds to the realism.

How 'bout some photo's of your layout?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EUCLID TRAVIS

[i] It is this protection that allows this type of graffiti to flouri***o such outlandish vulgarity, and to even get laws passed that place responsibility for the offensive act on the victim who owns the surface of its illegal display rather than on the actual perpetrator.

Excellent point, I remember the graffiti ''police' in Oakland threatening to cite us for graffiti placed on the side of warehouse buildings we owned.

Heh, the south side of Oakland is such a pretty place to begin with, one wonders if it was the fresh, unfaded paint that they objected to.

[chad thomas]

So how many of you guys have graffiti on you model trains? I have done several cars. Some with micro scale decals and some hand painted and some with both. Although the percentage of my cars that are graffitied is probably less then 2% it really adds to the realism.

[Anonymous]

Actually there are two types of railcar graffiti:

One type has been around forever. That is the cryptic cartoons and incomprehensible messages that are done by railroad employees. A lot of this is just the extension of expression of switchmen with chalk or crayon, making notes on cars about switching moves. Some of these people developed their own logo such as the little guy in the Mexican sombrero sitting under the palm tree.

The underlying attraction in the motive for this kind of tagging is fame. The point is to get your logo onto as many cars as possible, so they spread your brand or trademark far and wide. Around the early 1900s, somebody named J.B. King became famous by signing railcars. Another was somebody named TEXAS BOZINO or visa versa. This motive of mass production requires that the basic characteristic of this kind of tagging is graphic simplicity. Usually it is done with a single color that contrasts with the background.

The second type of graffiti is a recent development of the last 30 years or so. This is the work of inner city youth applied to buildings, bridges, retaining walls, railcars, or anything that offers a surface that is not under vigilance by those who would object to the act. The basic motive for this kind of tagging is to produce a single piece that outdoes all the previous work of others. The characteristic of this kind of graffiti is garishness and overly complex, eye popping geometry with as much color variety as possible with spray paint. The theme is always an “in your face” message that expresses the underlying motive, which is competition.

Part of the power of this second type of graffiti is its thorny protection by an aura of political correctness that threatens would-be critics with an accusation of cultural insensitivity or worse. It is this protection that allows this type of graffiti to flouri***o such outlandish vulgarity, and to even get laws passed that place responsibility for the offensive act on the victim who owns the surface of its illegal display rather than on the actual perpetrator.