Terror Trains

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by narig01

Don't know what to say. To quote Chicken Little "The sky is falling". How about the little boy who cried "Wolf"

You said it. [;)]

Thousands of these cars are carried daily with no problem whatsoever.

Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill. [B)]

[canazar]

Wally,
That was 1992 or '93? Some of the hard core railfans I know down here wont even talk about that day. Spooky, spooky, if you know the history.

[solzrules]

Of course not. Those are all boring. Why take a picture of a barge running aground when the thought of a train derailing and blowing up is so much more appealing for ratings? Local reporters by and large are usually left trying to make something stupid sound really interesting so that more people will watch. Sometimes it is fun to watch. Most of the time it isn't.

[dmcclendon]

I have seen this story done locally on at least 2 of our local TV news channels. But the fact is there are lots of ways to make something a terrorist target. Trucks, Barges, chemical plants, airlines and even your local gas station could be a target. But do you see towns trying to ban those NOPE!!!.

[narig01]

To Rodney Block. Be glad you don't drive a truck. You would hav to put up with all the laws local governments pass to save their citizens.
Rgds IGN

[Rodney Beck]

Amen the chicken little effect seams to work on getting out rage going, I work for the railroad and it doesn't bother me pulling hazmat.

Rodney

[germanium]

You are not alone. The world is full of 5th-rate reporters making headlines out of nothing. We have more than our full quota of them in Great Britain.

[narig01]

Don't know what to say. To quote Chicken Little "The sky is falling". How about the little boy who cried "Wolf"
Or the Minneapolis field office of the FBI,who arrested Zacharias Moussoui(?) ,(to paraphrase) "Can we look now"(at his Laptop).(or his cellphone records)
Rgds IGN

[trainboyH16-44]

Wow, that first link at the end gave you even more biased facts without other vital information. So it's saying that EVERY mile of railroad track NEEDS to be protected? I'd like to see that. Maybe a security guard assigned to a particular mile of ROW in rural areas...that's gonna add up. They say the railroads are focused on profit margins, and I'd imagine that it would be hard NOT to be focused on money when you're talking that many personnel. The most mention of this is that it said that railways balk at the thought of this security, citing financial concerns. Who wouldn't?
I just read something about coal trains being left unattended for days at a time. This is a security risk, then? Most damage I can see there is a big pileup somewhere down the line.
"We don't even have a tornado shelter" You have no idea of the context of that, but I think it's safe to assume that they've forgotten the locomotive. [:p]

[wallyworld]

Never say never. This was taken from notes at a symposium on rail related terror
Some serious stuff all done with low tech tools. Still unsolved


The passenger train was the first to pass thislocation since a Southern Pacific freight train traveled through 18 hourspreviously.



The Sunset Limited, en route from New Orleans to LosAngeles, was traveling at approximately 50 miles per hour when two engines andeight cars derailed. Two sleeping cars and the diner car fell 30 feet from atrestle into a dry river bed.



The Sunset Limited carried 248 passengers and 20Amtrak crew members. As a result of the derailment, 65 were injured and oneAmtrak on board service employee, Mitchell Bates, age 58, was killed. Propertydamage to the Amtrak cars and engines was estimated as exceeding $2,979,000.



The subsequent investigation into the crime determinedthat the train was intentionally derailed. Notes found at the scene identifieda previously unknown anti-U.S. government terrorist group, the RSons ofGestapo,S as responsible for this act. References to both RRuby RidgeS andRWacoS were contained in the notes.



The perpetrators of the derailment committed the crimeby removing a total of 29 spikes from the rails. Nuts and bolts were alsoremoved from the rail joints which hold the sections of rails together, and therail joints themselves were removed from the rails. A wire was spliced to thebond wire of the signal system so that the signal, observed by the engineer,would display a RgreenS signal to proceed at maximum authorized speed. Afterthe wire had been spliced, the loosened 39 foot section of rail was movedinward, causing the rail to be Rout of gauge.S The rail was then spiked in its precarious position so thatit could not go back Rin gauge.S The placement of the Rout of gaugeS rail, atop a 30 foot bridge, causeda number of the train cars to tumble over sideways into the dry wash. Both leadlocomotives and the first car in the consist were propelled forward, runningaground, but not tipping over.



Immediately following the derailment, police and rescueworkers were dispatched to the scene. The derailment site was in the remotestof desert-like locations, approximately 18 miles from the nearest paved road. TheMaricopa County SheriffUs Department was the first law enforcement agency onthe scene. In all, over 50 deputies and volunteers assisted. Thirty-fiveambulances responded from Maricopa County and numerous communities. Helicoptersfrom Maricopa County, the Arizona Department of Public Safety, the NationalGuard, and Air Evac transported the injured.



A total of sixteen railroad police officers,consisting of eight members of the Southern Pacific Railway and eightDetectives from the Amtrak Police Department, responded. And, in addition, over150 agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were brought in asthe lead agency to conduct the investigation.



Early on, the derailment site was determined to be acrime scene. The site was sealed, with Southern Pacific Railway Policeestablishing a security ring in the immediate area, and the Maricopa SheriffUsDepartment establishing a nine mile perimeter. Everyone located within theperimeter was interviewed by the FBI or local authorities. By 9:30 AM, FBIevidence collection teams began searching the area and collecting evidence,which lasted throughout the following day.



In addition to the law enforcement response, theFederal Railroad Administration (FRA) sent inspectors to the area, and theNational Transportation Safety Board sent in a team, as per federal guidelines,to examine the derailment site for cause and to ensure that the railroad wasoperating within federal regulations.



Both the Amtrak Police Department (APD) and the FBIestablished 1-800 numbers for anyone wanting to call with information regardingthe derailment. Also, a reward fund of $100,000 was established for anyinformation leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator(s). Thisreward will be offered again during the airing of an upcoming RUnsolvedMysteriesS episode regarding the derailment.



The derailment remains under active investigation, with acommand center operating in the FBI Office in Phoenix, Arizona. The commandcenter is manned by agents of the FBI, together with a member from the AmtrakPolice Department, the Southern Pacific Railway Police Department, and theMaricopa County SheriffUs Department.

[Gluefinger]

I don't think it's feeding terrorists though- they probably already know all of this stuff.

[Anonymous]

The railroad would be an easy threat considering that most rail lines go strait through cities I mean most cities were built around the railroad. There's pretty much nothing the railroad could do but report suspicious activity. If I see a Asian lookin guy with car parked right next to the railroad tracks and he's looking around nervously and has sweat pouring of his forhead I would be suspicious. If poeple can call the police on railfans we could do the same for a terrorist. [alien]

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kfuztv

Check this out. This was a investigative report about security around railroads in the Fresno, Calif area. Report was done by KGPE CBS 47.

http://www.cbs47.tv/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=AF32FC70-2EBA-46F2-91E8-6F78F737ADA4

The following cut and paste is nothing more than the typical sensationalist uninformed drivel designed to insite the uninformed public, but the scariest part is the first web site source cited at the bottom, THE Teamster's Union..
Investigators: Terror trains
Posted: 4/28/2006 10:16:33 AM

Video


Millions of tons of hazardous chemicals are transported on trains every year. Here in Fresno those trains move right through our neighborhoods and downtown.


Could these trains become terrorist targets? If so, what is Fresno doing to prevent such an attack? CBS 47’s Allison Ash investigated.


Since 9-11, security has been raised around the country. We now experience increased airport security, bag searches at baseball games and required identification to book travel plans. But some people are afraid we are over-looking a serious threat... the railroad.


A new government report says just one attack on a train car of chlorine could kill 100,000 people in a half hour’s time. That’s roughly one-quarter of Fresno’s population. For that reason many large cities around the country have considered limiting hazardous cargo trains from entering their city. But here in Fresno, that may not be practical. The city is actually built around the tracks.


CBS 47 went to the train tracks on the edge of downtown. There was no fence, no rail police or security. We hung around for over a half-hour and no one questioned why we were there or what we were doing.


Veteran railroad engineer Gary Watkins says not enough is being done to secure the railroads.


“It boils down to money. Pure and simple, the transportation security administration has spent something like twenty billion dollars since 2001, of which maybe 250 million went to rail security.”


Is Fresno’s fire department prepared for an attack on a hazardous train car? Battalion Chief Chuck Tobias says their haz-mat response team is well trained and on-call around the clock. However, he admits there are some things that a crew can’t prepare for…


“There’s nothing we can do to patch up a tank car that has a catastrophic release, and in fact if there was a catastrophic release, what is remaining is coming out all at once.”


For more information: http://www.teamster.org/divisions/rail/pdfs/railsecuritybook.pdf

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/FreightRailSecurityActionItemsFinal.


Sam

[coborn35]

Isnt showing this kinda stuff on T.V kinda like sending a big invitation to terrorists saying " WE CANT PROTECT OUR CHEMICALS COME BOMB THEM AND KILL PEOPLE!!"

[Anonymous]

Slow news day...yawn......[zzz][zzz][zzz]

[solzrules]

I can see it now:

"Live, tonight at six, breaking story! A train derailed today in the town of (your town here). Initial reports stated that the train had 95 tank cars full of ammonia, chlorine, and cyanide gas. If you live within 80 miles of the accident site you should immediately evacuate! Let's go to our eyes at the scene, Cynthia McReportsthenews (yes that's a fake name)

Cynthia tell us what you see!

Cynthia: Well it's hard to tell Bob. There are one or two cars that we can see that appear to be off the track. There is smoke coming out of the engine so I think it might be on fire. We have one eyewitness who said they saw wave after wave of cyanide coming out of tank cars killing children and wildlife all over. Oh the horror!

Cynthia do you think you should get out of there? I mean were is all the cyanide?

Cynthia: Well, I didn't actually SEE the cyanide. Some guy told me that he saw all of this happen. He was too torn up to come on camera.

Cynthia did anyone from the railroad say anything?

Cynthia: No. All they said was that the smoke from the engine was normal (it was idling) and that only two cars jumped a frog on a switch (I hope the frog was okay). When I asked about the wave of cyanide washing away all the children and animals that evil *** just laughed at me and said I should recheck my facts. I am not sure what he meant by that. I can only assume the worst case scenario that there is cyanide everywhere and that we are all in danger of dying immediately. Everyone else should too. Hold on here is the sherriff, I will interview him. Sir?!

Cop: yes?

Cynthia: What's going on?

Cop: A train car derailed when it picked a switch. It was carrying casting sand.

Cynthia: IS that cyanide?

Cop: Nope. (Munches on a tasty doughnut)

Cynthia: Where is the cyanide?

Cop: I have no idea what you are talking about.

Cynthia: We have an eyewitness who said there was cyanide on board and that it killed children and animals. And the railroad didn't even care!

Cop: (snickers) Oh. YOu mean the guy we just arrested from over there? He is speedball addict. He likes to do lots of drugs and then go around and tell everyone about how he sees jesus and that NASA has a satellite watching him. We usually arrest him about once a week.

Cynthia: You mean there is no cyanide?

Cop: Nope. Hopefully you didn't do something stupid like report that there was and send the whole city into a panic.

Cynthia: Ummm, maybe.

Cop: Idiot.


Alright, I admit it. It is Saturday and I have too much time on my hands. [D)][D)]

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

Hummm this is interesting. I do think the reason why people didn't question the news crew is because they had the apperience of a legit televison news crew. They also could of been doing a news special on something in that area. Also this particular crew, might of also been out in the middle of nowhere, or in a place that has a low population. These are things the report failed to mention with respect to security.

As a note I am not for the limitation of chemical shipments by rail in certain cities. This is so because, if the governement decides to limit chemical shipments via rail, then we most likely are going to have more chemical hualing done by ships, or trucks. Then you would run into the same problem as you would if you shiped chemical via rail. More of these chemicals would be readily (sp) avalible to "terrorists" on our nations highways, then they could decide to blow up a bridge or a tunnel for that matter.

Actually Sarah, I'd go a step farther. Trucks can also be hijacked and aimed directly at given targets by suicidal drivers. Trains are pretty much restricted to the tracks, or nearby vicinity if derailed. Their choice of target would be narrowed.

I wonder how many news reports have been done on this scenerio?

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by larsend

After 50 years in the Broadcast Industry, I can tell you that news organizations, especially local ones tend to sensationalize their stories.

If you will notice, all of the “facts” presented in this story are all designed to show that the television station cares about its audience, and it has discovered an alarming situation that needs immediate attention. Nowhere in the story did they seek information from the railroad involved or any government regulating body. The only response from the railroad industry was from an engineer, from a nameless railroad, who may or may not work for the railroad involved. Also, we do not know of the agenda or the engineer. He may have issues with the railroad involved.

If any of the footage that was aired in the news story indicates that the television crew was trespassing on railroad property, the railroad involved should get their legal department moving, if for no other reason to have the station air a more balanced story.

Yeah, I agree with you. I have noticed this trend too. Perhaps it is the result of reporters applying their training when there is no news to report, and they have to gin up a story. They usually are sensationalized and based a whole lot in hypotheticals. Tree68 has a good point. What about the trucks? No answer......why? Not a sensational doomsday scenario.

[PBenham]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railfan619

OK now when a news crew can stand around train tracks with a camrea in hand no body questions them why are you standing around the tracks and nobody calls the cops or comes around and asks them a hundred questions about what they are doin.But now when a railfan stands next to the tracks with a camrea the next thing you know nine cops cars show up and start to ask you a million questions and everyone one on the block comes out and starts asking why are you there and what are you doing here. and also next thing you know the cops are breaking your flim and you are sitting in the back of cop car while they sit around asking everyone what are were you doin there.

I agree, we could be part of the answer, but we railfans are thought of as possible terrorists, instead. The terrorists won on 9/11, and continue to win each time one of us is harrassed for no other reason than we are there doing some thing "illegal" in some one else's eye. And there is nothing we can do about this. Nothing![V]

[tree68]

Quick - what's the UN number on the placard on that 9000 gallon tank truck that just went by city hall?

No news there.

[larsend]

After 50 years in the Broadcast Industry, I can tell you that news organizations, especially local ones tend to sensationalize their stories.

If you will notice, all of the “facts” presented in this story are all designed to show that the television station cares about its audience, and it has discovered an alarming situation that needs immediate attention. Nowhere in the story did they seek information from the railroad involved or any government regulating body. The only response from the railroad industry was from an engineer, from a nameless railroad, who may or may not work for the railroad involved. Also, we do not know of the agenda or the engineer. He may have issues with the railroad involved.

If any of the footage that was aired in the news story indicates that the television crew was trespassing on railroad property, the railroad involved should get their legal department moving, if for no other reason to have the station air a more balanced story.

[CSXrules4eva]

Hummm this is interesting. I do think the reason why people didn't question the news crew is because they had the apperience of a legit televison news crew. They also could of been doing a news special on something in that area. Also this particular crew, might of also been out in the middle of nowhere, or in a place that has a low population. These are things the report failed to mention with respect to security.

As a note I am not for the limitation of chemical shipments by rail in certain cities. This is so because, if the governement decides to limit chemical shipments via rail, then we most likely are going to have more chemical hualing done by ships, or trucks. Then you would run into the same problem as you would if you shiped chemical via rail. More of these chemicals would be readily (sp) avalible to "terrorists" on our nations highways, then they could decide to blow up a bridge or a tunnel for that matter.

[railfan619]

OK now when a news crew can stand around train tracks with a camrea in hand no body questions them why are you standing around the tracks and nobody calls the cops or comes around and asks them a hundred questions about what they are doin.But now when a railfan stands next to the tracks with a camrea the next thing you know nine cops cars show up and start to ask you a million questions and everyone one on the block comes out and starts asking why are you there and what are you doing here. and also next thing you know the cops are breaking your flim and you are sitting in the back of cop car while they sit around asking everyone what are were you doin there.

[BNSF_GP60M]

Check this out. This was a investigative report about security around railroads in the Fresno, Calif area. Report was done by KGPE CBS 47.

http://www.cbs47.tv/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=AF32FC70-2EBA-46F2-91E8-6F78F737ADA4