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Direction of locomotives in consist

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Posted by Jackflash on Saturday, August 2, 2003 11:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder



The two control wires, I think pins 8 and 9 in the 27 pin jumper cable, are crossed
in the cable, also they are crossed between the connector at the front of the
locomotive and the connector at the rear of the locomotive, if you draw this out
on paper you will see that if you have two locos facing the same direction
with the reverser foward the second unit will take its commands in the foward
direction, now reverse that second unit, because of the crossed wires in the
cable and at the rear of both locos the second unit will take its signals in the
reverse direction, remember, the two control wires cross at the rear of each
engine, and they cross again in the jumper cable, you could couple 10 locos
together fowards, backwards anyway you want and the locos will always know
which way to move, without any switch settings or input from the operator
except the reverser on the controlling unit. jackflash
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Posted by Jackflash on Saturday, August 2, 2003 11:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder



The two control wires, I think pins 8 and 9 in the 27 pin jumper cable, are crossed
in the cable, also they are crossed between the connector at the front of the
locomotive and the connector at the rear of the locomotive, if you draw this out
on paper you will see that if you have two locos facing the same direction
with the reverser foward the second unit will take its commands in the foward
direction, now reverse that second unit, because of the crossed wires in the
cable and at the rear of both locos the second unit will take its signals in the
reverse direction, remember, the two control wires cross at the rear of each
engine, and they cross again in the jumper cable, you could couple 10 locos
together fowards, backwards anyway you want and the locos will always know
which way to move, without any switch settings or input from the operator
except the reverser on the controlling unit. jackflash
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Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, August 2, 2003 8:24 AM
The short hood forward is only a safty preferance for the crew being able to see trains or banners. there is no rule for which way the engine is pointed. i prefer running long hood out. the way the engine knows which way to go is it gets its signal from the unit in front of it. and in return it passes a signal to the unit behind it. disconect the jumper cable and it thinks it is sitting there all by its self.

Ed the switch you are talking about is for head light control only. if you want try putting the lead unit on single or itermidiate unit and then take off the only thing that wont work is the lights the lead unit will have lights on both ends but the rear unit wont light up.
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Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, August 2, 2003 8:24 AM
The short hood forward is only a safty preferance for the crew being able to see trains or banners. there is no rule for which way the engine is pointed. i prefer running long hood out. the way the engine knows which way to go is it gets its signal from the unit in front of it. and in return it passes a signal to the unit behind it. disconect the jumper cable and it thinks it is sitting there all by its self.

Ed the switch you are talking about is for head light control only. if you want try putting the lead unit on single or itermidiate unit and then take off the only thing that wont work is the lights the lead unit will have lights on both ends but the rear unit wont light up.
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Posted by edblysard on Saturday, August 2, 2003 12:13 AM
Rear control panel has a selector switch, chose single unit, trailing unit controled from another unit connected at the long hood, trailing unit controled from another unit connected at the short hood, intermediate unit controled from either end. Reverser centered and removed.
Stay Frosty,
Edquote]Originally posted by adrianspeeder

How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder

23 17 46 11

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Posted by edblysard on Saturday, August 2, 2003 12:13 AM
Rear control panel has a selector switch, chose single unit, trailing unit controled from another unit connected at the long hood, trailing unit controled from another unit connected at the short hood, intermediate unit controled from either end. Reverser centered and removed.
Stay Frosty,
Edquote]Originally posted by adrianspeeder

How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 7:22 PM
Adrianspeeder:

The reverser on all trailing locomotives is put in the netural or center position and removed.



Tom
Retired Snake
God Bless the Great Northern
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 7:22 PM
Adrianspeeder:

The reverser on all trailing locomotives is put in the netural or center position and removed.



Tom
Retired Snake
God Bless the Great Northern
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Posted by therailnut on Friday, August 1, 2003 7:14 PM
as to your question to how trains are turned around? They use a wye track to turn or flip power as the railroads call it. They will run the train around the wye . They reverse up the other leg of the wye, then they go through the other leg of the wye with locos pointed they way they want them to go.
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Posted by therailnut on Friday, August 1, 2003 7:14 PM
as to your question to how trains are turned around? They use a wye track to turn or flip power as the railroads call it. They will run the train around the wye . They reverse up the other leg of the wye, then they go through the other leg of the wye with locos pointed they way they want them to go.
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Friday, August 1, 2003 6:32 PM
How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder

USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman

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Posted by adrianspeeder on Friday, August 1, 2003 6:32 PM
How do the trailing locomotives know which direction they are going? If they are pointing both directions, do the reversers go in a certain position?

Thanks, adrianspeeder

USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman

  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 3:13 PM
Usually, the rr tries to have the rear unit facing to the rear; sometimes that doesn't happen for one reason or another. On some roads, you rarely saw the rear unit facing back. The original NYSW ran multiple RS1's...all facing the same way. Likewise, the Rutland ran their RS3's with multiple units in the same direction.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 3:13 PM
Usually, the rr tries to have the rear unit facing to the rear; sometimes that doesn't happen for one reason or another. On some roads, you rarely saw the rear unit facing back. The original NYSW ran multiple RS1's...all facing the same way. Likewise, the Rutland ran their RS3's with multiple units in the same direction.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 9:44 AM
Thanks to all those who replied... it does clear things up for me. Now I can look at know what I am seeing. Although everyone had great answers, I must say that I am quite pleased to see staff members using the forums along side the readers!

Thanks again,
Shawn
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 9:44 AM
Thanks to all those who replied... it does clear things up for me. Now I can look at know what I am seeing. Although everyone had great answers, I must say that I am quite pleased to see staff members using the forums along side the readers!

Thanks again,
Shawn
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Friday, August 1, 2003 8:17 AM
Hello Shawn,

The Southern Railroad was one of the few who decided to run their lead power backwards, or as the term goes "long hood forward." It was more of a crew safety practice. That practice continued up until Southern and Norfolk Western created Norfolk Southern in 1982.

Hope this helps.[:)]
All the Way!
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Friday, August 1, 2003 8:17 AM
Hello Shawn,

The Southern Railroad was one of the few who decided to run their lead power backwards, or as the term goes "long hood forward." It was more of a crew safety practice. That practice continued up until Southern and Norfolk Western created Norfolk Southern in 1982.

Hope this helps.[:)]
All the Way!
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 3:49 AM
Shawn,

In addition to Mr. Hemphill's reply, I would like to add two things. On the Rio Grande, all trains were required to have at least one opposite facing locomotive in the event another train approaching in the opposite direction lost power on a lead locomotive. also, in many cases, esspecially in the days of cab units, it was easy to see they hooked sets of 2 or 3 together, so it was common to see an A-B-A set hooked to an A-A set, etc. Keith
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 3:49 AM
Shawn,

In addition to Mr. Hemphill's reply, I would like to add two things. On the Rio Grande, all trains were required to have at least one opposite facing locomotive in the event another train approaching in the opposite direction lost power on a lead locomotive. also, in many cases, esspecially in the days of cab units, it was easy to see they hooked sets of 2 or 3 together, so it was common to see an A-B-A set hooked to an A-A set, etc. Keith
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 2:12 AM
Shawn:

As long as the lead locomotive points forward, it doesn't matter which way they all point--the locomotive runs identically either way. The lead locomotive doesn't even have to point forward; it's just preferred. One night on KCS, I rode a steel train with a single backward-facing GE AC4400CW for 150 miles, before we were able to come up to a wye where we could turn the unit. Some railroads place a speed restriction onto trains whose lead locomotive faces backward, some don't.

The people who dispatch and assign locomotives keep track of which whey they're pointing, so when they build consists they can provide a forward-pointing locomotive on the lead. If none are available, the usual turning method is a wye (turntables are rare). On a busy line, there's usually enough locomotives moving both ways each day to give sufficient numbers of forward- and backward-facing locomotives to choose from. On a line with one or two trains a day, the power dispatchers will attempt to build consists with one facing backward at the rear, so there's no need for turning the locomotives at the other end. But on one-locomotive jobs, it will almost always be facing backward for one-half of the run.

Mark W. Hemphill
Editor, Trains Magazine
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 2:12 AM
Shawn:

As long as the lead locomotive points forward, it doesn't matter which way they all point--the locomotive runs identically either way. The lead locomotive doesn't even have to point forward; it's just preferred. One night on KCS, I rode a steel train with a single backward-facing GE AC4400CW for 150 miles, before we were able to come up to a wye where we could turn the unit. Some railroads place a speed restriction onto trains whose lead locomotive faces backward, some don't.

The people who dispatch and assign locomotives keep track of which whey they're pointing, so when they build consists they can provide a forward-pointing locomotive on the lead. If none are available, the usual turning method is a wye (turntables are rare). On a busy line, there's usually enough locomotives moving both ways each day to give sufficient numbers of forward- and backward-facing locomotives to choose from. On a line with one or two trains a day, the power dispatchers will attempt to build consists with one facing backward at the rear, so there's no need for turning the locomotives at the other end. But on one-locomotive jobs, it will almost always be facing backward for one-half of the run.

Mark W. Hemphill
Editor, Trains Magazine
  • Member since
    April 2003
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Direction of locomotives in consist
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 12:50 AM
Posted this in another area and now think I might have been in the wrong place...

I have looked at trains over and over again for some sign as to why certain engines point forward and others backwards... A truly curious person, I am.

What I want to know is are these conscious decisions, how the locomotives are in the yard when they are assembling trains, are some sign of the direction the engine needs to travel when broken away from the train?

Also, how are trains turned today without turn tables? Is there a manuever or certain type of train set-up?

Shawn
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Direction of locomotives in consist
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2003 12:50 AM
Posted this in another area and now think I might have been in the wrong place...

I have looked at trains over and over again for some sign as to why certain engines point forward and others backwards... A truly curious person, I am.

What I want to know is are these conscious decisions, how the locomotives are in the yard when they are assembling trains, are some sign of the direction the engine needs to travel when broken away from the train?

Also, how are trains turned today without turn tables? Is there a manuever or certain type of train set-up?

Shawn

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