drawbars revisited

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:58 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

O.K. Mook. Heres a curve ball for you. Now your brain is really gonna smoke. Ever heard of a Road Railer?
Ken

Yeah Ken, believe it or not, I have heard of them. I have never seen one, but I know what you are talking about. What I saw was just containers, only one or two to a flatcar. No stacking, no trailers, and not even all flatcars had containers on them. Then the deal with the drawbar - never did see the air hose. Unless it is a short one that doesn't hang down and it was on the opposite side of the drawbar.

Jen

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:58 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

O.K. Mook. Heres a curve ball for you. Now your brain is really gonna smoke. Ever heard of a Road Railer?
Ken

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Anonymous

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:15 PM

O.K. Mook. Heres a curve ball for you. Now your brain is really gonna smoke. Ever heard of a Road Railer?
Ken

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Anonymous

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:15 PM

O.K. Mook. Heres a curve ball for you. Now your brain is really gonna smoke. Ever heard of a Road Railer?
Ken

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:16 AM

Carl - I will look and make note next time. We do see some very strange things going thru here!

I told my driver the same thing - that air hose has to go the length of the train, but neither one of us remember seeing anything "hanging down". I will beg to go again this weekend and see what other really strange things I can come up with!

Thanx

Sis

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:16 AM

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CShaveRR

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:05 AM

Yes, Jen, those "fifth wheels" are the hitches for trailers, basically the only way they are attached to the flat cars. In the days of "circus" loading (where trucks actually backed the trailers into position on strings of the cars) these hitches had to be flat against the deck until they were supporting the trailers (never saw how they did that!), but nowadays, when most trailers and containers are lifted on and off the cars by cranes or "Piggy-packers", they're built in the raised position.

Some of the spine cars do have hitches than can be lowered, making them suitable for containers (these are usually lettered TTAX).

Back to earlier posts on this thread, I suggested that the cars you and your driver might have seen were "Long-Runner" cars. Those would not have had containers on them, since a container would be too rigid to be put over the drawbar (on the trailer, the hitch and the tires give a little more flexibility for going through curves). They would have been lettered TTEX.

Try to get the precise reporting mark off any TTX cars you have questions about. They assign a different set of reporting marks to every type of car they operate.

As for the train line (air hose), it had to be there somewhere, since the brake line must run the entire length of the train. The drawbar-connected cars I've seen usually have conventional hoses, right down to the gladhands (couplings) between the units.

Carl

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

CShaveRR

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:05 AM

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

Mookie

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From: US
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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:34 AM

I hate to continue to be a nuisence - no I dont.......

I got my flat cars are straightened out, I know how the cargo hangs on, now.

One more item - I see what looks like the "fifth wheel" (?) on a tractor/trailer rig (on the tractor part - on some of the flat cars. Are these used for the same purpose? These flat cars have no containers or trailers on them - just empty.

Sigh - here we go again!

Jen

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:34 AM

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:31 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

From the envelope in Karnac's Funk & Wagganal's Mayo Jar on Mookie's back porch:

IBC=Inter Box Connector , what holds the stack containers (sea cans) together and to the spine or well car......(see earlier thread)

(ps: you ought to see what happens when a 19'-4" tall stack train goes through a 18'-9" tall tunnel)

(Beginning to suspect somebody's office is wedged in between the Lincoln depot and the crossings at the fairgrounds)
[:D] You get the early morning award for starting my day off in stitches!

And from the same Mayo jar - you are right - Go Big Red! [:p]

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:31 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

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mudchicken

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:10 AM

First, I know the difference between containers and trailers. That made this even more interesting. I remember thinking at the time - this particular pig train had FLAT cars - no wells, no restraints that were visable and they weren't double stacks. Only one container high! So what kept the containers from sliding off? Weight?

From the envelope in Karnac's Funk & Wagganal's Mayo Jar on Mookie's back porch:

IBC=Inter Box Connector , what holds the stack containers (sea cans) together and to the spine or well car......(see earlier thread)

(ps: you ought to see what happens when a 19'-4" tall stack train goes through a 18'-9" tall tunnel)

(Beginning to suspect somebody's office is wedged in between the Lincoln depot and the crossings at the fairgrounds)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

mudchicken

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:10 AM

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:19 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Jen

Look closer next time i believe the type of car you are talking about it dont have wells on them it looks like a frame with no flat either the container fits on this frame and on the corners there is a lip sticks up to sit down into. this is what holds them on the car. didnt mean to insult you exsplaining containers and trailers. i just exsplained it another way.

[:I] Aw Wabash - you can't insult me - I have pretty tough hide! If someone really gets on my nerves (MO) I will let them know!!!! Just appreciate your input!

This is a good explanation. Like I said - these trains are either coming in or going out - in this case, they were coming in and sometimes they just don't slow down to a crawl. What I need to have happen is for them to set one out for me to actually go up and get my hands on it, to see how it is put together. And the probability of that happening is about the same as MO being declared sane! [8D]

Jen

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:19 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Jen

Look closer next time i believe the type of car you are talking about it dont have wells on them it looks like a frame with no flat either the container fits on this frame and on the corners there is a lip sticks up to sit down into. this is what holds them on the car. didnt mean to insult you exsplaining containers and trailers. i just exsplained it another way.

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wabash1

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Posted by wabash1 on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:41 AM

Jen

Look closer next time i believe the type of car you are talking about it dont have wells on them it looks like a frame with no flat either the container fits on this frame and on the corners there is a lip sticks up to sit down into. this is what holds them on the car. didnt mean to insult you exsplaining containers and trailers. i just exsplained it another way.

wabash1

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Posted by wabash1 on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:41 AM

Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:36 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Somebody better get ready to explain to Mookie what an IBC is as well....(Hint: it's not an itty-bitty-chinaman)

Itty-bitty-chicken? [:D] Ok - I am curious - what is an IBC? Doesn't anyone in this world talk in words instead of letters anymore? I can't remember all these acronyms!!!!!

Mook!

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:36 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Somebody better get ready to explain to Mookie what an IBC is as well....(Hint: it's not an itty-bitty-chinaman)

Itty-bitty-chicken? [:D] Ok - I am curious - what is an IBC? Doesn't anyone in this world talk in words instead of letters anymore? I can't remember all these acronyms!!!!!

Mook!

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:30 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Jen

Look at it this way what you saw was 2 flats coupled together with a solid drawbar. no coupler. the other cars these guys are talking about is stack cars. same thing they just take 3 or five of them and permanatly couple these cars together. that is it as far as the cars go.

Gentlemen: To all who have tried to "straighten me out" - it's a long line.

Anyway - I went home and we had our usual suppertime conversation - what I found on the forum. With a lot of hand waving, flapping and pointing (we look like a mime convention) we came to the same conclusion.

First, I know the difference between containers and trailers. That made this even more interesting. I remember thinking at the time - this particular pig train had FLAT cars - no wells, no restraints that were visable and they weren't double stacks. Only one container high! So what kept the containers from sliding off? Weight?

The entire train consisted of 3 sets, 5 sets (I can count to 5) with shared wheels. AND a couple of these odd ones that looked exactly like regular FLAT cars only they shared ONE LONG Drawbar. Each had its own wheels. NO COUPLERS. I don't know how they were attached and if they had an air line, it was hidden from view - it didn't hang down like air hoses usually do.

Could it have been made that way - in sets of two - sharing a single drawbar or two long drawbars pinned together?

2 sets of eyes saw exactly this and since his are better than mine, I figure we got it right!

Mookie

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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:30 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Jen

Look at it this way what you saw was 2 flats coupled together with a solid drawbar. no coupler. the other cars these guys are talking about is stack cars. same thing they just take 3 or five of them and permanatly couple these cars together. that is it as far as the cars go.

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Anonymous

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:46 PM

Santa Fe invented spine cars, but it was the SP/Greenbrier team that invented the doublestack revolution. In fact, Santa Fe for a while, after SP and UP had both addopted stacks, said they were going to stick with TOFC rather than stacks. Of course the economics of stacks eventually swayed them to change their position and also adopt stacks.

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Anonymous

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:46 PM

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mudchicken

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:10 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by rkloster

Next, I would look at Greenbrier's site. Greenbrier pioneered the development of double-stack techonlogy with SP back in the late 1970's/early 1980's and curently builds more new double-stack cars than anyone else: http://www.gbrx.com/products/products_frame.html.

SP pioneered double stacks & spine cars? I think not & it was Santa Fe who came out with an odd shaped (not square) double stack that sat on a spine car. It's a shame one of those car containers didn't make it to a museum after sitting in San Bernardino for years.

Somebody better get ready to explain to Mookie what an IBC is as well....(Hint: it's not an itty-bitty-chinaman)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

mudchicken

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From: Denver / La Junta
10,820 posts

Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:10 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by rkloster

Next, I would look at Greenbrier's site. Greenbrier pioneered the development of double-stack techonlogy with SP back in the late 1970's/early 1980's and curently builds more new double-stack cars than anyone else: http://www.gbrx.com/products/products_frame.html.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

wabash1

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Posted by wabash1 on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:48 PM

Jen

Look at it this way what you saw was 2 flats coupled together with a solid drawbar. no coupler. the other cars these guys are talking about is stack cars. same thing they just take 3 or five of them and permanatly couple these cars together. that is it as far as the cars go.

Now lets go one step farther. what we call stack is trailers ( containers) with no wheels these trailers go to a yard and is off loaded to a chassie to be hauld to destination. flat cars hold complete trailers. ( wheels and all) and are off loaded also the perpose of the containers are it may have come in on a ship from overseas or may be sent over seas. makes them stackable to save space. unless you really wanted to get in with both feet it dont matter wither it is a spine or a articulate car. they pull the same and do mostly the same thing. just the type of trailer they hold is differant.

wabash1

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Posted by wabash1 on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 2:48 PM

Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:47 AM

Thanks *** - I did go to Google and looked at their images on different websites. Some of them were ok, but a lot were either so far away or so dark, I couldn't really see them. I will go check out these new places over my lunch hour.

Jen

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