QUOTE: Originally posted by David Wallace I'm not trying to beat this dead horse,but one thing that has not been brought up about turbines and locomotives....and something I have always wondered.......are train movements....slack, coupling, etc hard on turbines?....especialy turning at such high rpm? it seems a "standard" turbine would not fair well in a good 'ol rough joint!! David Wallace
23 17 46 11
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc First things first, I am the Safety & Environmental for a utility. We operate 2 gas fired steam plant, 1 dual fueled diesel plant ( this plant uses diesel to start the units and then after reaching operating temps and loads are switched to a 95% gas/5% diesel fuel), and are co-owners of a coal fired plant burning PRB coal. By degree I am a mining engineer, I worked in coal mine in Western PA. SooBlue Yes they tried a turbine in a bus. But this was not a generator setup, it was a direct drive just like a helicopter. To add the required equipment for electrical output takes up more space than the turbine. This is not including all the other controls required. This all takes space and each presents it's own set of requirements. Most electrical plants need 5 megawatts of power to produce power, i.e. to get the auxilaries running.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Originally posted by edblysard Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. Stay Frosty, ] Hi There Ed, In many modern electric power plants coal is pulverised like you described. I have a friend who is an operator in the Muscateen Iowa power plant. He told me that the coal is forcefully injected from the four corners of the firebox into the air where it forms a plasma ball that is so bright that you need tinted glass like a welders helmet in order to view it. The ball just hangs there in mid-air. They burn two high capacity hopper cars of coal and hour. Just the same, as good a fuel as it is, coal blown into a turbine would be so abrasive I just don't see how they would have even tried that experiment. In navel ships that use bunker oil the oil is pumped into the tanks hot where it cools and solidifies to a tar consistancy. When it is needed it is heated with a steam line that makes the oil flow again. Say! this isn't really related but, In MN. the state has mandated that all diesel fuel be mixed with soybean oil. A friend of mine owns a fuel distribution buisness here. He said that soybean oil solidifies at a higher temp. then diesel fuel. In a cold climate like MN. there are going to be problems. He said that the soybeen oil is going to have to be heated. Have you run into soy oil for fuel yet? Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Friday, July 25, 2003 11:44 PM Originally posted by edblysard Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. Stay Frosty, ] Hi There Ed, In many modern electric power plants coal is pulverised like you described. I have a friend who is an operator in the Muscateen Iowa power plant. He told me that the coal is forcefully injected from the four corners of the firebox into the air where it forms a plasma ball that is so bright that you need tinted glass like a welders helmet in order to view it. The ball just hangs there in mid-air. They burn two high capacity hopper cars of coal and hour. Just the same, as good a fuel as it is, coal blown into a turbine would be so abrasive I just don't see how they would have even tried that experiment. In navel ships that use bunker oil the oil is pumped into the tanks hot where it cools and solidifies to a tar consistancy. When it is needed it is heated with a steam line that makes the oil flow again. Say! this isn't really related but, In MN. the state has mandated that all diesel fuel be mixed with soybean oil. A friend of mine owns a fuel distribution buisness here. He said that soybean oil solidifies at a higher temp. then diesel fuel. In a cold climate like MN. there are going to be problems. He said that the soybeen oil is going to have to be heated. Have you run into soy oil for fuel yet? Sooblue Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 25, 2003 12:42 AM Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. The compression from the intake blades makes the fuel, no mater what type, into a gas thats quite combustible, and helps ignite the mix. Just like with a diesel, if you compress a fuel fast and dense enough, it will ignite from the friction and heat cause by the compression. Pentrax has the only footage I know of showing the coal turbine, it quite a good looking locomotive, for what it is, but then all the turbines are eye catchers. The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. Funny, all this talk about turbines not being used today, due to not being efficent, but no one mentioned Amtrak's turboliners, just put back into service. A jets is a jet is a jet? I will let you know here tomorrow. And to clear up what will sure to be a debate, yes, dry products can be a slurry. Kaloin clay, used to coat printer paper, and make fine china plates, is shipped as a dry slurry in tank cars because it is so fine, it flows like a liquid. Compressed dry, then fired, it can be made into dinner ware, and fine plates. It is pressed dry on to a base paper to make the top quality printer paper you use every day. Thats what the silky or smooth, almost dusty feel is on you printer paper, it kaloin dust. Stay Frosty, Ed[:D]QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 25, 2003 12:42 AM Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. The compression from the intake blades makes the fuel, no mater what type, into a gas thats quite combustible, and helps ignite the mix. Just like with a diesel, if you compress a fuel fast and dense enough, it will ignite from the friction and heat cause by the compression. Pentrax has the only footage I know of showing the coal turbine, it quite a good looking locomotive, for what it is, but then all the turbines are eye catchers. The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. Funny, all this talk about turbines not being used today, due to not being efficent, but no one mentioned Amtrak's turboliners, just put back into service. A jets is a jet is a jet? I will let you know here tomorrow. And to clear up what will sure to be a debate, yes, dry products can be a slurry. Kaloin clay, used to coat printer paper, and make fine china plates, is shipped as a dry slurry in tank cars because it is so fine, it flows like a liquid. Compressed dry, then fired, it can be made into dinner ware, and fine plates. It is pressed dry on to a base paper to make the top quality printer paper you use every day. Thats what the silky or smooth, almost dusty feel is on you printer paper, it kaloin dust. Stay Frosty, Ed[:D]QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by edblysard Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. Stay Frosty, ] Hi There Ed, In many modern electric power plants coal is pulverised like you described. I have a friend who is an operator in the Muscateen Iowa power plant. He told me that the coal is forcefully injected from the four corners of the firebox into the air where it forms a plasma ball that is so bright that you need tinted glass like a welders helmet in order to view it. The ball just hangs there in mid-air. They burn two high capacity hopper cars of coal and hour. Just the same, as good a fuel as it is, coal blown into a turbine would be so abrasive I just don't see how they would have even tried that experiment. In navel ships that use bunker oil the oil is pumped into the tanks hot where it cools and solidifies to a tar consistancy. When it is needed it is heated with a steam line that makes the oil flow again. Say! this isn't really related but, In MN. the state has mandated that all diesel fuel be mixed with soybean oil. A friend of mine owns a fuel distribution buisness here. He said that soybean oil solidifies at a higher temp. then diesel fuel. In a cold climate like MN. there are going to be problems. He said that the soybeen oil is going to have to be heated. Have you run into soy oil for fuel yet? Sooblue Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 25, 2003 12:42 AM Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. The compression from the intake blades makes the fuel, no mater what type, into a gas thats quite combustible, and helps ignite the mix. Just like with a diesel, if you compress a fuel fast and dense enough, it will ignite from the friction and heat cause by the compression. Pentrax has the only footage I know of showing the coal turbine, it quite a good looking locomotive, for what it is, but then all the turbines are eye catchers. The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. Funny, all this talk about turbines not being used today, due to not being efficent, but no one mentioned Amtrak's turboliners, just put back into service. A jets is a jet is a jet? I will let you know here tomorrow. And to clear up what will sure to be a debate, yes, dry products can be a slurry. Kaloin clay, used to coat printer paper, and make fine china plates, is shipped as a dry slurry in tank cars because it is so fine, it flows like a liquid. Compressed dry, then fired, it can be made into dinner ware, and fine plates. It is pressed dry on to a base paper to make the top quality printer paper you use every day. Thats what the silky or smooth, almost dusty feel is on you printer paper, it kaloin dust. Stay Frosty, Ed[:D]QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 25, 2003 12:42 AM Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. The compression from the intake blades makes the fuel, no mater what type, into a gas thats quite combustible, and helps ignite the mix. Just like with a diesel, if you compress a fuel fast and dense enough, it will ignite from the friction and heat cause by the compression. Pentrax has the only footage I know of showing the coal turbine, it quite a good looking locomotive, for what it is, but then all the turbines are eye catchers. The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. Funny, all this talk about turbines not being used today, due to not being efficent, but no one mentioned Amtrak's turboliners, just put back into service. A jets is a jet is a jet? I will let you know here tomorrow. And to clear up what will sure to be a debate, yes, dry products can be a slurry. Kaloin clay, used to coat printer paper, and make fine china plates, is shipped as a dry slurry in tank cars because it is so fine, it flows like a liquid. Compressed dry, then fired, it can be made into dinner ware, and fine plates. It is pressed dry on to a base paper to make the top quality printer paper you use every day. Thats what the silky or smooth, almost dusty feel is on you printer paper, it kaloin dust. Stay Frosty, Ed[:D]QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Friday, July 25, 2003 12:42 AM Hi sooblue, The slurry was pulverized coal, almost as fine as talc, it will burn quite hot. The trubines are started on diesel fuel, and when they reach some ungodly rpm, the coal powder, or bunker c oil, is introduced. By the way, the bunker c or number 2 fuel oil, was so thick, it was preheated by a on board steam heater, so it would flow freely. The compression from the intake blades makes the fuel, no mater what type, into a gas thats quite combustible, and helps ignite the mix. Just like with a diesel, if you compress a fuel fast and dense enough, it will ignite from the friction and heat cause by the compression. Pentrax has the only footage I know of showing the coal turbine, it quite a good looking locomotive, for what it is, but then all the turbines are eye catchers. The gas turbines were regulars at UP's LA east yard,it was one of their turn around points. I think the title of the video is UP's Mighty Turbines. I will dig it out tomorrow, and see if there is a stock number on it. Funny, all this talk about turbines not being used today, due to not being efficent, but no one mentioned Amtrak's turboliners, just put back into service. A jets is a jet is a jet? I will let you know here tomorrow. And to clear up what will sure to be a debate, yes, dry products can be a slurry. Kaloin clay, used to coat printer paper, and make fine china plates, is shipped as a dry slurry in tank cars because it is so fine, it flows like a liquid. Compressed dry, then fired, it can be made into dinner ware, and fine plates. It is pressed dry on to a base paper to make the top quality printer paper you use every day. Thats what the silky or smooth, almost dusty feel is on you printer paper, it kaloin dust. Stay Frosty, Ed[:D]QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue
QUOTE: Originally posted by sooblue Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:32 PM Noise was also a big problem. UP got beat up badly when they tried some turbines into and out of Los Angeles. Maybe they could overcome that with today's technology. Reply Edit sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. That could be true, but in the fifties, I think it was GM, built a bus with a turbine located in the back in a normal position. Most helicopters use turbines now. Maybe they are a diffrent type. Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevarc Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size.
Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply sooblue Member sinceApril 2002 From: US 446 posts Posted by sooblue on Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:36 PM Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by edblysard UP had the first steam turbine from GE, it used a recovery system to recycle the steam, condense it back to water, and use it again, saving on water stops. Built in 1938, Unit #1 and 2, 2500 Hp. High pressure boiler in A unit, condensing unit and turbine in B unit. Condenser system too complicated, heavy maintainance on boiler, considered a failure, returned to GE 1939. First Gas Turbine GE demo unit#101, numbered UP 50 when tested by UP. Double ended with cabs on both ends, 4500 hp, built nov 1948 returned to GE and dismantled. This is the demo unit, ran on UP as #50, on NKP and Pennsy as GE#101. Used bunker C fuel oil, as did the rest of UPs turbines, except Nos 80A/80B, which used pulverized coal in a slurry as fuel. UP is the only buyer. That's great Ed! a lot of info. You mentioned coal in a slurry. To me a slurry is something dry (coal) mixed with something wet (water, oil, gas) Is that what you mean. If it is, what was it mixed with? I need a view of # 80A & B. I must know more [:p] Thanks, Sooblue Reply kevarc Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Richland WA 361 posts Posted by kevarc on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:53 PM Like I said before, no you couldn't, the size of the turbine and all the aux equipment would limit it to one turbine per frame. Just becasue the engine is small does not mean that it would be adaptable to what would be required. There are a great many limits other than size. Kevin Arceneaux Mining Engineer, Penn State 1979 Reply 12 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.