Turnout speed..........

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken



KenEO: Not trying to "blow smoke" and can understand the "ballpark" reference 7 or so posts back...What is frightening is the people that take stuff in this forum and others and think this stuff is gospel. If I had a nickel for every time I corrected the work of a non-railroad licensed engineer or surveyor that has encountered a railroad, I could retire and live off the royalties. Some of the assumptions, misconceptions and mistakes should be published in Ripley's. (Some still have us in stitches, they are that bizzare! Others make me concerned about my chosen profession and the public's safety)...Like Ed, just trying to keep things "somewhere in the middle".... We all get to learn a little and have a little fun here.

No offence taken and none intended. Just that after reading your reply, I got to thinking about what and how I had written in that post, so went back to refresh my mind. Saw the problems you were talking about and thought I had better fix them. [:I]

I know what you are talking about engineers (non-RR licensed). Part of my job for the shortline was to take the property maps and track and right-of-way charts and then resurvey the boundries and mark them. Now this was simple meets and bounds from supposedly known points, well marked, and was off real RR papers. Oh my, Oh my.[V]

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken



KenEO: Not trying to "blow smoke" and can understand the "ballpark" reference 7 or so posts back...What is frightening is the people that take stuff in this forum and others and think this stuff is gospel. If I had a nickel for every time I corrected the work of a non-railroad licensed engineer or surveyor that has encountered a railroad, I could retire and live off the royalties. Some of the assumptions, misconceptions and mistakes should be published in Ripley's. (Some still have us in stitches, they are that bizzare! Others make me concerned about my chosen profession and the public's safety)...Like Ed, just trying to keep things "somewhere in the middle".... We all get to learn a little and have a little fun here.

No offence taken and none intended. Just that after reading your reply, I got to thinking about what and how I had written in that post, so went back to refresh my mind. Saw the problems you were talking about and thought I had better fix them. [:I]

I know what you are talking about engineers (non-RR licensed). Part of my job for the shortline was to take the property maps and track and right-of-way charts and then resurvey the boundries and mark them. Now this was simple meets and bounds from supposedly known points, well marked, and was off real RR papers. Oh my, Oh my.[V]

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Eric - I read that and actually understood it! All except the # 1 Market - ?

Jen

Number 1 Market Plaza, San Francisco, CA ... HQ for Southern Pacific until the Yellow Peril came along.

Remember their "old" slogan -- "We can handle it". Well, we used to say, "Yep, they sure can. They handle it, and handle it, and handle it, and handle it and when they get tired of handleing it, they turn it over to us (SP) and we do the job right". [:D][:D][:D]

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Eric - I read that and actually understood it! All except the # 1 Market - ?

Jen

Number 1 Market Plaza, San Francisco, CA ... HQ for Southern Pacific until the Yellow Peril came along.

Remember their "old" slogan -- "We can handle it". Well, we used to say, "Yep, they sure can. They handle it, and handle it, and handle it, and handle it and when they get tired of handleing it, they turn it over to us (SP) and we do the job right". [:D][:D][:D]

[mudchicken]

EsPee

[mudchicken]

EsPee

[Mookie]

Eric - I read that and actually understood it! All except the # 1 Market - ?

Jen

[Mookie]

Eric - I read that and actually understood it! All except the # 1 Market - ?

Jen

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

I dont think the height of the person would make much difference. It would all depend on..
ouch= toe+ rail+rocksX2 if someone is watching divided by density of skull.
But with some of the guys I work with, it wouldnt matter how deep the dent went. Nothing in there to hurt in the first place.[:D]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

Well, I guess we write it this way --- ??

OUCH!! = (toe + rail + rocks) / Density of Skull

EMBARASSMENT = OUCH!! X Density of matter within skull X 2.

What a party at the Yard!! When do you think a new drink of Karo-on-the-Rocks with little-white-pellets will become available? What would they call it??

I've been to a few parties like that. Some were better than others, but I can't remember any that were fun. But one was really funny. About 1976 or 77 we dumped several cars of a pig over into the canyon at Wildcat Creek. Two cars, one of tuna and the other of Coors in cans burst open about 700 feet down. Good old #1 Market sent the Bulls up to make sure nobody got the beer, but they couldn't stop the bears. They would show up, open the tuna cans and scarf up and when they got thirsty, open a few brewskys and satisfy their thirst. The Bulls tried to stop them, at first. They were never able to yard the cars up. They just left them for the bears to finish off, and they are there to this day.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

I dont think the height of the person would make much difference. It would all depend on..
ouch= toe+ rail+rocksX2 if someone is watching divided by density of skull.
But with some of the guys I work with, it wouldnt matter how deep the dent went. Nothing in there to hurt in the first place.[:D]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

Well, I guess we write it this way --- ??

OUCH!! = (toe + rail + rocks) / Density of Skull

EMBARASSMENT = OUCH!! X Density of matter within skull X 2.

What a party at the Yard!! When do you think a new drink of Karo-on-the-Rocks with little-white-pellets will become available? What would they call it??

I've been to a few parties like that. Some were better than others, but I can't remember any that were fun. But one was really funny. About 1976 or 77 we dumped several cars of a pig over into the canyon at Wildcat Creek. Two cars, one of tuna and the other of Coors in cans burst open about 700 feet down. Good old #1 Market sent the Bulls up to make sure nobody got the beer, but they couldn't stop the bears. They would show up, open the tuna cans and scarf up and when they got thirsty, open a few brewskys and satisfy their thirst. The Bulls tried to stop them, at first. They were never able to yard the cars up. They just left them for the bears to finish off, and they are there to this day.

[mudchicken]

Ironken: As in Meridian Rail now?

[mudchicken]

Ironken: As in Meridian Rail now?

[edblysard]

I dont think the height of the person would make much difference. It would all depend on..
ouch= toe+ rail+rocksX2 if someone is watching divided by density of skull.
But with some of the guys I work with, it wouldnt matter how deep the dent went. Nothing in there to hurt in the first place.[:D]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

[edblysard]

I dont think the height of the person would make much difference. It would all depend on..
ouch= toe+ rail+rocksX2 if someone is watching divided by density of skull.
But with some of the guys I work with, it wouldnt matter how deep the dent went. Nothing in there to hurt in the first place.[:D]
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

[Anonymous]

Pretty cool hearing "sampson," "stockrail," and "springfrog," come up again, Mudchicken. I worked for ABC Rail Prod/ABC NACO/Racor/Abex. Does any of these ring a bell?
Ken

[Anonymous]

Pretty cool hearing "sampson," "stockrail," and "springfrog," come up again, Mudchicken. I worked for ABC Rail Prod/ABC NACO/Racor/Abex. Does any of these ring a bell?
Ken

[mudchicken]

CShaveRR: The special points are called "Samson" Points and have been around for years. They are beefier, harder to wear out and require that the stock rail that they close against to be undercut/machined so that the extra width can fit under the railhead... There are also replaceable manganeese switch point tips out there, but the rest of the rail is usually shot by the time you want to replace the tips.

Ed: We're still amazed over the corn syrup episode and appreciate the straight-forward operating guy's view salted with the good natured humor. (Oh yeah, is a civil engineer still a hogger out of job?)

Movable point frogs (neat things, pioneered by Britain's Henry Boot & Co.) help frogs wear longer and are a beter solution than the old spring rail frogs. You don't get the banging of the wheels accros the flangeway gap in the frog. Much smoother ride and you find these usually in heavy tonnage areas. (Very expen$ive)... They don't do much for speed though....

KenEO: Not trying to "blow smoke" and can understand the "ballpark" reference 7 or so posts back...What is frightening is the people that take stuff in this forum and others and think this stuff is gospel. If I had a nickel for every time I corrected the work of a non-railroad licensed engineer or surveyor that has encountered a railroad, I could retire and live off the royalties. Some of the assumptions, misconceptions and mistakes should be published in Ripley's. (Some still have us in stitches, they are that bizzare! Others make me concerned about my chosen profession and the public's safety)...Like Ed, just trying to keep things "somewhere in the middle".... We all get to learn a little and have a little fun here.

[mudchicken]

CShaveRR: The special points are called "Samson" Points and have been around for years. They are beefier, harder to wear out and require that the stock rail that they close against to be undercut/machined so that the extra width can fit under the railhead... There are also replaceable manganeese switch point tips out there, but the rest of the rail is usually shot by the time you want to replace the tips.

Ed: We're still amazed over the corn syrup episode and appreciate the straight-forward operating guy's view salted with the good natured humor. (Oh yeah, is a civil engineer still a hogger out of job?)

Movable point frogs (neat things, pioneered by Britain's Henry Boot & Co.) help frogs wear longer and are a beter solution than the old spring rail frogs. You don't get the banging of the wheels accros the flangeway gap in the frog. Much smoother ride and you find these usually in heavy tonnage areas. (Very expen$ive)... They don't do much for speed though....

KenEO: Not trying to "blow smoke" and can understand the "ballpark" reference 7 or so posts back...What is frightening is the people that take stuff in this forum and others and think this stuff is gospel. If I had a nickel for every time I corrected the work of a non-railroad licensed engineer or surveyor that has encountered a railroad, I could retire and live off the royalties. Some of the assumptions, misconceptions and mistakes should be published in Ripley's. (Some still have us in stitches, they are that bizzare! Others make me concerned about my chosen profession and the public's safety)...Like Ed, just trying to keep things "somewhere in the middle".... We all get to learn a little and have a little fun here.

[kenneo]

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

[kenneo]

Gives "trip" a whole new meaning. Ed, does this now mean that a 5 foot person falling victim to your foumula would ge a dented forhead and a massive non-migrain headache? How would that alter your formula?

(big wide cheesy grin!)

[Mookie]

I am busy writing this down, since it is the only part of this entire conversation I have understood. Gotta remember that formula! That's a goodie!

Mook

[Mookie]

I am busy writing this down, since it is the only part of this entire conversation I have understood. Gotta remember that formula! That's a goodie!

Mook

[mudchicken]

Excellent! The Mookie Pop-Quiz is gonna trip me up on that little gem. Centripital force is that force that puts you up against the high rail in a curve, why the train wants to go straight. Everybody else calls it centrifugal but the old Physics book points out that that is a layman's term and not the proper term.

[mudchicken]

Excellent! The Mookie Pop-Quiz is gonna trip me up on that little gem. Centripital force is that force that puts you up against the high rail in a curve, why the train wants to go straight. Everybody else calls it centrifugal but the old Physics book points out that that is a layman's term and not the proper term.

[edblysard]

Centripital force?
Is that sorta like catching your toe, and experiencing falloverable force, only expressed as a mathmatical equation?
Ouch = toe + rail+ rocks X2 if someone is watching.
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Kenneo- carefull, speed is a function of radius/degree of cv. and elevation, switches for the the most part are flat...plus unbalance (in relation to centripital force)

SPEED= SQRT((E+3)/0.0007D) E=0, (flat) D=degree of curvature, 3" maximum unbalance (freight railroads use 2 or less)

Mookie's closed book/open mind pop quiz to follow.......

The proper tem for "Y" switch is equilateral turnout, and they are a relatively minority item whose geometry precludes it from many locations.

[edblysard]

Centripital force?
Is that sorta like catching your toe, and experiencing falloverable force, only expressed as a mathmatical equation?
Ouch = toe + rail+ rocks X2 if someone is watching.
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Kenneo- carefull, speed is a function of radius/degree of cv. and elevation, switches for the the most part are flat...plus unbalance (in relation to centripital force)

SPEED= SQRT((E+3)/0.0007D) E=0, (flat) D=degree of curvature, 3" maximum unbalance (freight railroads use 2 or less)

Mookie's closed book/open mind pop quiz to follow.......

The proper tem for "Y" switch is equilateral turnout, and they are a relatively minority item whose geometry precludes it from many locations.

[wabash1]

Heck i do it the easy way i look up in the time table what speed i am allowed to go into and out of the sidings. that way i dont haft to get the calculator out to to the math

[wabash1]

Heck i do it the easy way i look up in the time table what speed i am allowed to go into and out of the sidings. that way i dont haft to get the calculator out to to the math

[CShaveRR]

I was always told that you doubled the turnout number to get the safe speed.

UP has installed some #30s, with movable frogs, which have three switch machines each: one for the frog and two for the points. If you have to hand-throw both switches of a crossover (which would be thousands of feet apart, with the wide track spacing), that's quite a bit of walking!

I also seem to remember about some new point profile that's supposed to make things safer. How do that, and the movable frogs, affect the speed, if at all?