Hand brakes

[Mookie]

[:D] Reading GCOR as I have time - on Google.

Apply sufficient number of hand brakes to prevent movement. How do you know what a sufficient number is? I would probably put them all on!

Kicking cars means?

Spring switches - sounds like you shouldn't move if you are on/over one. How do they work?

We will start there

Jen

[Mookie]

[:D] Reading GCOR as I have time - on Google.

Apply sufficient number of hand brakes to prevent movement. How do you know what a sufficient number is? I would probably put them all on!

Kicking cars means?

Spring switches - sounds like you shouldn't move if you are on/over one. How do they work?

We will start there

Jen

[zardoz]

Mookie-
One knows how many to apply only by experience, or the experience of another crewperson. Factors include the weight of the individual cars, the grade (incline) of the track, how many cars, loaded or empty, weather conditions (icy cold brakeshoes will not hold as well). I'm sure Ed will enlighten you better, for as a Snake he had vast more experience than I on the ground.

I do know that on CNW's SD40-2 it took about 50-75 pulls on the long-handle handbrake on the front of the locomotive-seemed like it took forever to crank that sucker!! Especially in the rain.

[zardoz]

Mookie-
One knows how many to apply only by experience, or the experience of another crewperson. Factors include the weight of the individual cars, the grade (incline) of the track, how many cars, loaded or empty, weather conditions (icy cold brakeshoes will not hold as well). I'm sure Ed will enlighten you better, for as a Snake he had vast more experience than I on the ground.

I do know that on CNW's SD40-2 it took about 50-75 pulls on the long-handle handbrake on the front of the locomotive-seemed like it took forever to crank that sucker!! Especially in the rain.

[edblysard]

Zardot had it right, only the person tieing the brakes can decide if there are enough cars tied down to hold the rest in place, and as you often cut off or spot cars in the same place day after day, after a while, you get to know what does and dosnt work.The GCOR also states, "If in doubt, take the safest route" which means if your not sure, tie down more than what you think it needs.
Kicking cars is what I do all day. You have a cut of cars in front of your motor, shoving them. When your helper has the correct switches lines up, you tell the engineer to kick em, he opens the throttle as wide as he dares, when the slack runs in(the cars bunch up) I reach in and lift the cut lever, pulling the pin, and away they go. When sufficent speed has been reached to get the cars where I want them, I will tell the engineer "that will do", he makes a brake application, as hard as he can without locking or sliding the wheels, and cracks the whip on the cars we have ahold of. The cars I cut off will be proppelled into the track my helper lined us up for, and we repeat this process untill we have switched the train out.
Spring switches are found on sideings, or anywhere you need a switch to line itself back to a certain route. They are spring loaded, and allways return to the main route. You can run through them, in a trailing point move, they are designed for that. So if you approach from a siding, and the switch at the end is a spring switch, no one has to get down and line it for the main, you just keep on going, running through it, and it will reline itself back for the main. You can not back up, or make a faceing point move over one, untill all the wheels of your entire train have passed through it, unless you want to be fired. There is another type of switch, a vairable switch, which really means a switch that flops open, or lines its self for you move if you make a trailing point move through it. It stays lined for whatever route was last used. It too, is spring loaded, but the springs hold it in the last position it was in. If it was lined for route A, and someone runs through it from route B, it will stay lined for route B. Same as a spring switch, you can not back up through it,(facing point move) until all the wheels of the leading car or locomotive have passed through or over it. Both types can be lined by hand for a faceing point move.
Spring switches are most often found where two routes meet, and one is a more heavily use route than the other, but both have a good amount of traffic traveling in the same direction. The spring switch will be set to line itself back for the most often used track or route. You find variable switches in yards, where several tracks converge, and the current of traffic is in the direction of a trailing point move. Both save a lot of time, but require more maintainance than a regular turnout switch.Stay Frosty,
Ed[8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:D] Reading GCOR as I have time - on Google.

Apply sufficient number of hand brakes to prevent movement. How do you know what a sufficient number is? I would probably put them all on!

Kicking cars means?

Spring switches - sounds like you shouldn't move if you are on/over one. How do they work?

We will start there

Jen

[edblysard]

Zardot had it right, only the person tieing the brakes can decide if there are enough cars tied down to hold the rest in place, and as you often cut off or spot cars in the same place day after day, after a while, you get to know what does and dosnt work.The GCOR also states, "If in doubt, take the safest route" which means if your not sure, tie down more than what you think it needs.
Kicking cars is what I do all day. You have a cut of cars in front of your motor, shoving them. When your helper has the correct switches lines up, you tell the engineer to kick em, he opens the throttle as wide as he dares, when the slack runs in(the cars bunch up) I reach in and lift the cut lever, pulling the pin, and away they go. When sufficent speed has been reached to get the cars where I want them, I will tell the engineer "that will do", he makes a brake application, as hard as he can without locking or sliding the wheels, and cracks the whip on the cars we have ahold of. The cars I cut off will be proppelled into the track my helper lined us up for, and we repeat this process untill we have switched the train out.
Spring switches are found on sideings, or anywhere you need a switch to line itself back to a certain route. They are spring loaded, and allways return to the main route. You can run through them, in a trailing point move, they are designed for that. So if you approach from a siding, and the switch at the end is a spring switch, no one has to get down and line it for the main, you just keep on going, running through it, and it will reline itself back for the main. You can not back up, or make a faceing point move over one, untill all the wheels of your entire train have passed through it, unless you want to be fired. There is another type of switch, a vairable switch, which really means a switch that flops open, or lines its self for you move if you make a trailing point move through it. It stays lined for whatever route was last used. It too, is spring loaded, but the springs hold it in the last position it was in. If it was lined for route A, and someone runs through it from route B, it will stay lined for route B. Same as a spring switch, you can not back up through it,(facing point move) until all the wheels of the leading car or locomotive have passed through or over it. Both types can be lined by hand for a faceing point move.
Spring switches are most often found where two routes meet, and one is a more heavily use route than the other, but both have a good amount of traffic traveling in the same direction. The spring switch will be set to line itself back for the most often used track or route. You find variable switches in yards, where several tracks converge, and the current of traffic is in the direction of a trailing point move. Both save a lot of time, but require more maintainance than a regular turnout switch.Stay Frosty,
Ed[8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:D] Reading GCOR as I have time - on Google.

Apply sufficient number of hand brakes to prevent movement. How do you know what a sufficient number is? I would probably put them all on!

Kicking cars means?

Spring switches - sounds like you shouldn't move if you are on/over one. How do they work?

We will start there

Jen

[wabash1]

Jen

The number of hand brakes is what you feel is needed. ive only put on 2 and held 40 cars and other times it took more. you have the air to help hold the cars but dont count on it. the easiest way of doing it is to set your hand brakes and then make a cut only a few feet from the cars being left. and stop if the cars stay then there is sufficient amount. its not hard just make sure that the brakes work.

spring switches are switches that do not need to be lined to come out of a siding. you run thru them. and they have a masive spring to pu***he points back to the proper position. if you are going thru the switch( called a trailing move) while your train is going thru this you do not make a reverse move or stop and let slack roll back. the reason is as long as there is no wheel going thru this it will go back to normal and if you still have part of your train in the siding and part on the main and make a reverse move. the part on the main will go back down the main. it wont take long to tear something up. the other senereo would be that the switch points would remain gaped at this point you would put a few cars on the ground. (not good either)

as far as kicking cars go. that is where you bleed all the air off the cars line up the tracks yo want them to go and then as the conductor tells me i start shoving easy when he says kick ( this is how we do it) ill slap the throttle. ( i might be shoving in notch 2 ill slap it to 8) then all slack is in and my speed is climbing at the same time he has raised the cut leaver. when we get the speed right he says that will do. i stop and that car goes on. ( or cars) then he will line switches and we do it again.

[wabash1]

Jen

The number of hand brakes is what you feel is needed. ive only put on 2 and held 40 cars and other times it took more. you have the air to help hold the cars but dont count on it. the easiest way of doing it is to set your hand brakes and then make a cut only a few feet from the cars being left. and stop if the cars stay then there is sufficient amount. its not hard just make sure that the brakes work.

spring switches are switches that do not need to be lined to come out of a siding. you run thru them. and they have a masive spring to pu***he points back to the proper position. if you are going thru the switch( called a trailing move) while your train is going thru this you do not make a reverse move or stop and let slack roll back. the reason is as long as there is no wheel going thru this it will go back to normal and if you still have part of your train in the siding and part on the main and make a reverse move. the part on the main will go back down the main. it wont take long to tear something up. the other senereo would be that the switch points would remain gaped at this point you would put a few cars on the ground. (not good either)

as far as kicking cars go. that is where you bleed all the air off the cars line up the tracks yo want them to go and then as the conductor tells me i start shoving easy when he says kick ( this is how we do it) ill slap the throttle. ( i might be shoving in notch 2 ill slap it to 8) then all slack is in and my speed is climbing at the same time he has raised the cut leaver. when we get the speed right he says that will do. i stop and that car goes on. ( or cars) then he will line switches and we do it again.

[kenneo]

Like Zardoz says, it varies. Usually, we held to the rule of thumb of one for flat track, two if you were on a slight hill, two if you were on something where the cars could start rolling by themselves regardless of grade. This, was, btw, with the cut left with the air set and then the brakes applied. Other places the number of brakes was established by Special Instruction. One such place was Cochran where you had a 3% descending Eastward and 2.86% descending Westward. Here, dynamite the cut and set at least five on each end. If you did not have 10 cars in your cut, well, you couldn't leave them without a skate.

Kick -- Engine pushes car, usually from standing, cuts off car in motion. Engine stops, car continues rolling.

Spring Switch - a rigid switch where said switch can be operated manually in the normal manner, or run through (trailing point movement with switch lined against you) with the points spring loaded to permit the trailing point move without damage to the switch and the points will automaticly realign because of the springs.

That sounds complicated, but it is not. Picture a train leaving a siding without a power switch. Without getting down and bending the iron, the train goes through the switch. As each wheel goes through the points, they move to the opposit allignment (reverse position) against a spring. When the wheel is passed, the spring pushes the points back to the position they are supposed to be in (normal position). The points continue to cycle normal-reverse-normal as each wheel goes through the switch.

These things can be traps. They are one-way-only for movement that reverses the points (such as our train leaving the siding). Since the points normalize after the wheels go through, you CAN NOT REVERSE the movement of the train without going back and manually reversing the switch. To do otherwise will have the back of the car going down one track and the front going down the other This is cause for great embarassment. Also creates junk pile in middle of track. The location of ALL spring switches are printed in the Special Instruction under the appropriate rule number and their normal direction of movement specified.

So, Jen, if you are moving over a spring switch on the track for which the switch is normally lined (no spring action occuring), you can go either direction. If you are moving over this same switch and causing the spring action to permit the points to reverse, you go only one way. If you manually reverse the switch like any other switch, you can move in either direction.

[kenneo]

Like Zardoz says, it varies. Usually, we held to the rule of thumb of one for flat track, two if you were on a slight hill, two if you were on something where the cars could start rolling by themselves regardless of grade. This, was, btw, with the cut left with the air set and then the brakes applied. Other places the number of brakes was established by Special Instruction. One such place was Cochran where you had a 3% descending Eastward and 2.86% descending Westward. Here, dynamite the cut and set at least five on each end. If you did not have 10 cars in your cut, well, you couldn't leave them without a skate.

Kick -- Engine pushes car, usually from standing, cuts off car in motion. Engine stops, car continues rolling.

Spring Switch - a rigid switch where said switch can be operated manually in the normal manner, or run through (trailing point movement with switch lined against you) with the points spring loaded to permit the trailing point move without damage to the switch and the points will automaticly realign because of the springs.

That sounds complicated, but it is not. Picture a train leaving a siding without a power switch. Without getting down and bending the iron, the train goes through the switch. As each wheel goes through the points, they move to the opposit allignment (reverse position) against a spring. When the wheel is passed, the spring pushes the points back to the position they are supposed to be in (normal position). The points continue to cycle normal-reverse-normal as each wheel goes through the switch.

These things can be traps. They are one-way-only for movement that reverses the points (such as our train leaving the siding). Since the points normalize after the wheels go through, you CAN NOT REVERSE the movement of the train without going back and manually reversing the switch. To do otherwise will have the back of the car going down one track and the front going down the other This is cause for great embarassment. Also creates junk pile in middle of track. The location of ALL spring switches are printed in the Special Instruction under the appropriate rule number and their normal direction of movement specified.

So, Jen, if you are moving over a spring switch on the track for which the switch is normally lined (no spring action occuring), you can go either direction. If you are moving over this same switch and causing the spring action to permit the points to reverse, you go only one way. If you manually reverse the switch like any other switch, you can move in either direction.

[kenneo]

Jen -- such a small question, such a big answer!

[kenneo]

Jen -- such a small question, such a big answer!

[Anonymous]

Interesting responses. I have always followed the way we were taught which was a minimum of one handbrake. The rule of thumb was 10% of handbrakes should be tied, but the actual amount was up to the crew. In certain areas Timetable Special Instructions require a certain minimum up to and including all handbrakes to be tied. We have a couple places where this is the rule. One is a mine where cars are loaded on a 2.8% grade and another is a power plant with a yard with a tough grade (not sure of %). Both are all brakes spots. In the mine area we would generally couple on and make hoses and charge the cut before we even thought about cutting off the brakes.

I think your question about kicking cars has been pretty well answered. I would add that we would generally set the first car (or cut) in a track and apply a handbrake before beginning flat switching ("kicking") cars into that track. This should avoid the possibility of a car moving a bit too fast rolling out of the yard or into anybody else's way.

LC

[Anonymous]

Interesting responses. I have always followed the way we were taught which was a minimum of one handbrake. The rule of thumb was 10% of handbrakes should be tied, but the actual amount was up to the crew. In certain areas Timetable Special Instructions require a certain minimum up to and including all handbrakes to be tied. We have a couple places where this is the rule. One is a mine where cars are loaded on a 2.8% grade and another is a power plant with a yard with a tough grade (not sure of %). Both are all brakes spots. In the mine area we would generally couple on and make hoses and charge the cut before we even thought about cutting off the brakes.

I think your question about kicking cars has been pretty well answered. I would add that we would generally set the first car (or cut) in a track and apply a handbrake before beginning flat switching ("kicking") cars into that track. This should avoid the possibility of a car moving a bit too fast rolling out of the yard or into anybody else's way.

LC

[mudchicken]

You can have spring switches, spring frogs, spring derails and variable switches. Trick is, with the exception of a spring switch point derail, pull the ENTIRE train through the switch and then back up (hopefully not shoving blind). With the derail, if you back up, you discover that gravity really works. If you back up an articulated car (permanently coupled like a spine car, trough train coal car, doublestack car, etc.), multiply the resulting mess by a factor of ten when trying to rerail the D*&$@#!!! thing.

Spring switch & Spring derail use a device called a mechanical switchman (i.e. a "super-heavy duty" shock absorber) in place of a regular steel bar switch rod between the switch stand and and the switch points #1 rod

On the railroad I worked on, the admonition was "don't let the alligator bite you". The alligator being the spring loaded switch point derail. Oh, the stories!!!

[mudchicken]

You can have spring switches, spring frogs, spring derails and variable switches. Trick is, with the exception of a spring switch point derail, pull the ENTIRE train through the switch and then back up (hopefully not shoving blind). With the derail, if you back up, you discover that gravity really works. If you back up an articulated car (permanently coupled like a spine car, trough train coal car, doublestack car, etc.), multiply the resulting mess by a factor of ten when trying to rerail the D*&$@#!!! thing.

Spring switch & Spring derail use a device called a mechanical switchman (i.e. a "super-heavy duty" shock absorber) in place of a regular steel bar switch rod between the switch stand and and the switch points #1 rod

On the railroad I worked on, the admonition was "don't let the alligator bite you". The alligator being the spring loaded switch point derail. Oh, the stories!!!

[Anonymous]

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

[BR60103]

The Niagara St Catherines and Toronto (NS&T) (CNR Interurban line) had at least one passing siding with spring switches at each end, set opposite ways, so that opposing cars passed without changing switches. As the cars passed every hour, this saved a lot of jumping off the cars.

[BR60103]

The Niagara St Catherines and Toronto (NS&T) (CNR Interurban line) had at least one passing siding with spring switches at each end, set opposite ways, so that opposing cars passed without changing switches. As the cars passed every hour, this saved a lot of jumping off the cars.

[Anonymous]

On main lines spring switches are usually marked by a spring switch indicator light located at the switch machine.

LC

[Anonymous]

On main lines spring switches are usually marked by a spring switch indicator light located at the switch machine.

LC

[edblysard]

Hi Tim, Ed here, yes they are marked, with a S on a white background sign, mounted on the switch itself. Variable switches have a V on the same background.
You local rule book and timetable will have a special note in the special instruction section telling you which one, where and what type it is. Crews that run over roads other than their own are required to have a timetable of that road, and be familar with the route, unless they are provided a pilot.
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

[edblysard]

Hi Tim, Ed here, yes they are marked, with a S on a white background sign, mounted on the switch itself. Variable switches have a V on the same background.
You local rule book and timetable will have a special note in the special instruction section telling you which one, where and what type it is. Crews that run over roads other than their own are required to have a timetable of that road, and be familar with the route, unless they are provided a pilot.
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

[BR60103]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

My impression has always been that engineers are not permitted to travel in strange territory. Signals do not give enough information about where you are going and the timetable doesn't give the dips and bumps that can either stall your train or tear it apart. Most of the signs are just reminders for the regular crews who are expected to know the road already.
It's not like being on a highway that you haven't been on before.

[BR60103]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TARGUBRIGHT

kenneo, you mentioned spring switches were marked as spiecial instuctions in the rule book. Is there a sign posted near them for engineers traveling in strang territory?
TIM A

My impression has always been that engineers are not permitted to travel in strange territory. Signals do not give enough information about where you are going and the timetable doesn't give the dips and bumps that can either stall your train or tear it apart. Most of the signs are just reminders for the regular crews who are expected to know the road already.
It's not like being on a highway that you haven't been on before.

[CShaveRR]

We got rid of our spring switches around June 21.

Now they're summer switches...summer easier to throw than others.

(Actually, the spring switches are marked "SS" on our railroad.)

[CShaveRR]

We got rid of our spring switches around June 21.

Now they're summer switches...summer easier to throw than others.

(Actually, the spring switches are marked "SS" on our railroad.)

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We got rid of our spring switches around June 21.

Now they're summer switches...summer easier to throw than others.

(Actually, the spring switches are marked "SS" on our railroad.)

Stop it Carl - you are playing with my leg again!

Jen[:X]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We got rid of our spring switches around June 21.

Now they're summer switches...summer easier to throw than others.

(Actually, the spring switches are marked "SS" on our railroad.)

Stop it Carl - you are playing with my leg again!

Jen[:X]