U25B

[Anonymous]

Quoth AntonioFP45: "SCL did heavily favor GEs, which may have been a factor."

There was a story in one of the old Vintage Rails that might interest you, if you can find the issue (March-April 1999). It's entitled "Up the Creek in a Leaky U-Boat". It deals with one man's experiences with SCL's GEs. You can judge from the title about the general tone of the experiences.

Old Timer

[AntonioFP45]

Oops!

My slip up! You're correct! They were SCL U25Cs (which I still could never bag with the camera).

Senility is setting in while in my 40s!

[SSW9389]

Antonio you didn't catch any SCL U25Bs on film because neither SCL, ACL, nor SAL owned any. ACL did have the U25Cs.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Transportation_Systems for some GE model rosters. You will find that the first four axle GE Uboats purchased by either ACL or SAL were the U30Bs. [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
[Seaboard Coast Line owned U25Bs (inherited from ACL). Some of their units lasted until just before 1980, so I'm assuming that something must have been right with them, though there seemed to be only a few U25Bs.

SCL did heavily favor GEs, which may have been a factor.

As a newbie photobug, I used to hang out at the big Uceta Yard in Tampa back in those days. Saw U33s, U336s, U18s, and even some Baldwin switchers, but I never had the good fortune of being able to catch a U25B .

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks Old Timer.

A 3 foot throttle lever??? Sounds like the designer worked with steam locomotives before!! Overhead throttle on high nose units? What was GE thinking?

I have a book that shows a photo of a trio of high nosed Union Pacific U25Bs. I remember reading a comment from a UP engineer in the 1970s. He stated that he didn't like GEs.

Seaboard Coast Line owned U25Bs (inherited from ACL). Some of their units lasted until just before 1980, so I'm assuming that something must have been right with them, though there seemed to be only a few U25Bs.

SCL did heavily favor GEs, which may have been a factor.

As a newbie photobug, I used to hang out at the big Uceta Yard in Tampa back in those days. Saw U33s, U336s, U18s, and even some Baldwin switchers, but I never had the good fortune of being able to catch a U25B .

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

I'm a fan of the old U-Boats. I thought I read years back that the early models, like the U25 series, had some annoying problems that mechanics and engine crews were not too fond of. Don't remember if they were electrical or mechanical. Improvements were made with later models.

Anyone know or remember what the problems were?

Yes. They had a 16-notch throttle that was about 3 feet long and situated down low in front of the engineer where only an octopus could manipulate it easily while backing up. The original high-nosed U-25s had a box structure suspended from the cab ceiling that had the throttle attached to it.

The original Cooper-Bessemer engine was not anywhere near as reliable as the 567 used in EMD's -35 engines, but even that engine had its teething troubles.

The records don't indicate how many railroads bought the U-boats in order that EMD should have some competition, since FM and Baldwin were gone and Alco was on the way out (domestically, anyhow).

Old Timer

[AntonioFP45]

I'm a fan of the old U-Boats. I thought I read years back that the early models, like the U25 series, had some annoying problems that mechanics and engine crews were not too fond of. Don't remember if they were electrical or mechanical. Improvements were made with later models.

Anyone know or remember what the problems were?

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

Not actually the 567 may have been devolped in 1938 but the fdl goes back even further the FDL was a german design brought over here. Also can you take a 567 power assembly and put it in a 710 block no you can not a fdl assm is the same regradless of horsepower.

The FDL is based on a Cooper-Bessemer engine, the in line FWL used in the 70 Ton locomotives and the FVBL used in export locomotives. The first hood unit built by GE with an FVBL was sold to Queensland Railways in Australia in late 1951. This predicted many U 25 features, but not all. I know of no German origin, although the HDL in the AC6000 was based on a Deutz design. You can't fit an FDL power assembly to an FVBL either! It got the GE name when build went in house about 1959.

You can fit 645 power assemblies to 567C and 567D engines and even to modified 567A and B engines. That takes you back to about 1940. The longer stroke of the 710 doesn't allow that, but you can't say it's hard to find EMD spares that will fit. Just ask GE, they make them! The EMD engine will long outlast an FDL, which is why GE make the parts.

M636C

[edbenton]

Not actually the 567 may have been devolped in 1938 but the fdl goes back even further the FDL was a german design brought over here. Also can you take a 567 power assembly and put it in a 710 block no you can not a fdl assm is the same regradless of horsepower.

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

Just think though the prime mover of the U25B is still in use today in every GE locomotive but the GEVO and AC6000, everything else uses a verison of the FDL that was introduced by the u-25. Those of you who hate GE, can EMD say that. I THINK NOT.

Actually, the FDL has been updated over the years to increase HP, just as the 710 is just a beefed up 567 from 1938.
EMD beats GE in that competition.

[edbenton]

Just think though the prime mover of the U25B is still in use today in every GE locomotive but the GEVO and AC6000 everything else uses a verison of the FDL that was introduced by the u-25. Those of you who hate GE can EMD say that I THINK NOT.

[tormadel]

Ok true, I'm not going to argue that point. But it was the first model that made GE a major player in the United States.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

While the U25B has achieved fame as GE's first domestic production model, it was hardly GE's first production diesel locomotive. The Universal line itself goes back to 1954 or 1955 and was a pretty complete line of export locomotives, in fact the first two U25B's originally carried export designations. GE was also producing standardized industrial designs for a long time. The U25B could be viewed as the next logical step for GE in going from primarily a supplier to the builders to a builder in its own right.

[tormadel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

Amazing to think that at it's time was the biggest gun on the rails.

Adrianspeeder

Yes, it was and I often think while trackside watching trains that virtually every old model locomotive on the rails today were "queens of the fleet" at one time, even the little GP9, SD9, etc., etc. That's progress I guess.

Ah yes, but many GP9's remain in service, even GP35's and I was led to believe that the U25B was a better machine then the GP35 which is the strange part.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrianspeeder

Amazing to think that at it's time was the biggest gun on the rails.

Adrianspeeder

Yes, it was and I often think while trackside watching trains that virtually every old model locomotive on the rails today were "queens of the fleet" at one time, even the little GP9, SD9, etc., etc. That's progress I guess.

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tormadel

Anyone have some photo's they can link of the preserved ones? (Including the repowers) <smile>

There may be some here
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=259

[tormadel]

Anyone have some photo's they can link of the preserved ones? (Including the repowers) <smile>

[adrianspeeder]

Amazing to think that at it's time was the biggest gun on the rails.

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

There's others left too, like several repowered ones, including 5 ex UP examples that were repowered with 567 engines from B&O f units, and 4 of the SP Sulzer repowered units that remain stored. Not sure of any others though.

[David_Telesha]

Yep, New Haven 2525 "The Last Built" is fully restored and up til a boo-boo back a while was operational. It will be again - still looks good...

[SSW9389]

L&N #1616 is at Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, Chattanooga, TN. This one may have been sold to ?

Milwaukee #5056 is at Illinois Railway Museum, Union, IL.

Milwaukee #5057 is at Portola Railroad Museum, Portola, CA.

NH #2525 is at the Railroad Museum of New England, Waterbury, CT.

NYC #2500 is at the Lake Shore Railroad Museum, North East PA.

NYC #2510 is parked south of Albany, NY at the Glenmount Power Station.

SP #3100 is at Orange Empire Railway Museum, Perris, CA.

7 remaining out of 478 built!

[SSW9389]

There are 7 left IIRC. Check Wiki for preservation details.

[tormadel]

Neato, I was never able to find any info on them other then "been scrapped"

[Kurn]

The rail museum in Northeast,Pa has one.NYC 2500.

[tormadel]

I find it amazing that this revolutionary (for GE anyway) locomotive has not survived at all. No shortline, no musems or anything. Tragedy if you ask me.