Breakup Railroads That Lie!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

Are we to assume that K. P. Harrier NEVER, EVER told a lie in his entire life? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Except K.P. probably isn't a railroad CEO putting American farmers out of business and forcing US manufacturing overseas. Hard working, taxpaying Americans are being hurt by the actions of US railroads. Why shouldn't such corporations come under more public scrutiny?

[SALfan]

Are we to assume that K. P. Harrier NEVER, EVER told a lie in his entire life? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

[cpbloom]

What is the real reason this topic was started?

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNWRMNM

Who will be the truth police and why should we believe them???

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? has been the dilemma of every society since the beginning of time.

Best regards, Michael Sol

Boy! Your computer goes to the 'puter shop to be wormed, and the Trojan Horse reshod, and the inmates have captured the asylum!!!
What you said, MICHAEL.....[^][^][^][^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

I believe a railroad that lies through its teeth should be broken up into two or more railroads. Because of railroading’s nature and importance to America, the natural process of ELIMINATING unscrupulous businesses through awareness is NOT practical. But government ordered breakups is practical, and very safe! A serious threat of THAT could orientate matters aright within shady companies that happen to be super important to the continued economic well being of the nation.

H'mmmmm,

Don't forget, Railroads have devised "Hydra-cushion"



So for every head you cut off, two equally menacing heads are likely to grow back in it's place.

[:D]

What seems funny to me is that the general concensus of this forum tends to be along the lines that the big freight railroads are too big, ranging among a plethora of reasons including that insufficient competition causes higher rates, the railroads have grown too large to effectively manage themselves, etc, all the way down to simple narcistic resentment that their favorite fallen flag was assimilated by those 'dirty rotten so and so's' .

Yet at the same time, these very same people will argue against breaking up Amtrak until they are foaming at the mouth, insisting that a single, nationwide network is the ONLY acceptable solution.

Which IS it? Is what I'd like to know.

Has Amtrak ever lied to us? Well, lets break it up into a thousand pieces.

Or better yet, how about this option?

If the large Railroads lie, lets force them to resume passenger rail. That ought to send shivers down their spine.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Did I miss something? Like a bad case of paranoia?

It would be nice if we could hold every person, government and business entity to a level of honesty as required in a court of law-"the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Perhaps embarrasing, but nice.

The suggestion is that if "railroads" lie, they should be broken up. The last time I talked to a switch point, I seemed to be getting the straight story. How about instead, any managers that commits a crime or lies to cover the commission is prosecuted and if convicted is fined and jailed.

An oasis of sanity . . .

[sebamat]

Every Businnes should make what they think is better for them or give the better chances to make money. If they toke the wrong directionand they will lose money .. pity for them (and their workers, see Ford) .

But to decide that corporations should be 'punished' because they did not made what public opinion think is the right thing, the list of candidates will be very long and not only RRs; and, specially the list would allways be VERY VERY opinable!!!

Or it will become like in Russia: I do not like you/you have what I like --> I destroy your company...


sebastiano

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pchas

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Whether there is "lying" going on or not is irrelevent to the key issue of the lack of competition among the Class I's. A monopoly can be as honest as a day is long, and still be a detriment to the GDP. The irrefutable fact is this: North American railroads' current service and rate structures favor overseas imports over domestic producers. That in and of itself is the best reason to bring anti-trust legislation to the fore.

Container ships are lined up with imports waiting to be unloaded. That being the case, It simply makes sense from the railroads' point of view to service this large and growing sector over the domestic producers, which offer a smaller margin. I may not love UP, but I'm not going to blame the trade deficit on Uncle Pete!! And with the advent of the interstate highway system and the trucking industry, trains don't have a monopoly on moving freight.

Except you've got it backwards. It is the grain, coal, chemicals, e.g. commodities of domestic origin that are the high margin commodities, while import intermodal offers the smallest of margins. Look at where railroads are excerting their pricing power - it ain't on those double stacks of Chinese imports. The big rate increases are all occuring on the domestic stuff.

And the import intermodal, while the fastest growing sector of railroading, is still not even close to the volumes provided by coal and grain.

The truth is, the railroads (especially BNSF and UP) make the core of their revenues from domestic products, and then turn around and authorize their capacity improvement funds on those import intermodal lanes.

One would almost think that Chairman Mao is the spiritual CEO of the rail oligarchy.

[edblysard]

Mookie,
Are you sure the percent is that low?[:D]
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ok - I will stick a finger in this one -

So you break a railroad up that lies. Somewhere in my bb brain, I don't see this as a solution. And if we do that, what do we do with 85% of the politicians in this country - turn them into railroaders?

Surely you can come up with something a little more thought-provoking that this?

Moo

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Whether there is "lying" going on or not is irrelevent to the key issue of the lack of competition among the Class I's. A monopoly can be as honest as a day is long, and still be a detriment to the GDP. The irrefutable fact is this: North American railroads' current service and rate structures favor overseas imports over domestic producers. That in and of itself is the best reason to bring anti-trust legislation to the fore.

Container ships are lined up with imports waiting to be unloaded. That being the case, It simply makes sense from the railroads' point of view to service this large and growing sector over the domestic producers, which offer a smaller margin. I may not love UP, but I'm not going to blame the trade deficit on Uncle Pete!! And with the advent of the interstate highway system and the trucking industry, trains don't have a monopoly on moving freight.

[StillGrande]

We could just stick them in boxcars with shackles, on open source lines, and fund them with fees to use the logos on models.

[techguy57]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ok - I will stick a finger in this one -

So you break a railroad up that lies. Somewhere in my bb brain, I don't see this as a solution. And if we do that, what do we do with 85% of the politicians in this country - turn them into railroaders?

Surely you can come up with something a little more thought-provoking that this?

Moo

[#ditto]

Better start with Capitol Hill first.

[alien]The truth is out there.[alien]

(I'm thinking that K.P. might be out there a bit too on this one)


Mike

[Mookie]

Ok - I will stick a finger in this one -

So you break a railroad up that lies. Somewhere in my bb brain, I don't see this as a solution. And if we do that, what do we do with 85% of the politicians in this country - turn them into railroaders?

Surely you can come up with something a little more thought-provoking that this?

Moo

[oltmannd]

But what about liars that railroad?

[bobwilcox]

I'm asking the VA House of Delagates to outlaw original sin and be do with it!

[germanium]

What is truth ?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Does anybody have the pretzels ready? I think it's time to get up and go for a beer.

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PNWRMNM

Who will be the truth police and why should we believe them???

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? has been the dilemma of every society since the beginning of time.

Best regards, Michael Sol

[PNWRMNM]

Who will be the truth police and why should we believe them???

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton
The suggestion is that if "railroads" lie, they should be broken up. The last time I talked to a switch point, I seemed to be getting the straight story. How about instead, any managers that commits a crime or lies to cover the commission is prosecuted and if convicted is fined and jailed.

The Sarbanes-Oxley Act seems to be designed to achieve that end, but represents the biggest headache honest management has had added to their already full plates in years.

However, stupidity by itself is still entirely legal.

Best regards, Michael Sol

[jeaton]

Did I miss something? Like a bad case of paranoia?

It would be nice if we could hold every person, government and business entity to a level of honesty as required in a court of law-"the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Perhaps embarrasing, but nice.

The suggestion is that if "railroads" lie, they should be broken up. The last time I talked to a switch point, I seemed to be getting the straight story. How about instead, any managers that commits a crime or lies to cover the commission is prosecuted and if convicted is fined and jailed.

[Anonymous]

Whether there is "lying" going on or not is irrelevent to the key issue of the lack of competition among the Class I's. A monopoly can be as honest as a day is long, and still be a detriment to the GDP. The irrefutable fact is this: North American railroads' current service and rate structures favor overseas imports over domestic producers. That in and of itself is the best reason to bring anti-trust legislation to the fore.

[mudchicken]

KP - and what penalty would the dolts leveling unwarranted charges and hearsay get?[}:)]

[bnsfkline]

Don't mind K.P. Harrier........he just escaped from the loony bin......I mean...nothing will break up the railroads unless NEW railroads are formed to take em over, then you will have NEW lies to tend with.........Face it....that would cost WAY to much....

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GN-Rick

"Lunatic fringe . . . .we all know you're out there . . . . . '

[(-D] You read my mind!

[AntonioFP45]

K.P,

What will breaking up these railroads accomplish? You're still going to have trains on clogged infrastructure and the same old issues as well. Unfortunately there isn't a corporation in this country that doesn't have problems with ethics. It's all about profit, satisfying stockholders, liability prevention, litigation and politics. And the "Dems" are no cleaner than the "Publicans".



Anyway, I would like to read some of the FACTS pertaining to the problems that UP or the railroads being referred to are having. What lies are you referring to?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

I believe a railroad that lies through its teeth should be broken up into two or more railroads. Because of railroading’s nature and importance to America, the natural process of ELIMINATING unscrupulous businesses through awareness is NOT practical. But government ordered breakups is practical, and very safe! A serious threat of THAT could orientate matters aright within shady companies that happen to be super important to the continued economic well being of the nation.

You mean like the Union Pacific that lied about forceing Model Railroaders to pay for stupid fee's over their Jack a** Swoosh Logo.

That idiotic swoosh logo belongs to BNSF,not the stUPid RR!

It's not my falt that UP trashed the SP and put them selves into a Meltdown. UP was a discrace and to this day still is a discrace. Look at it this way,BN took over the ATSF and had no problems.

[BaltACD]

If we eliminated all business organizations that lied....we would die in a cave of starvation and thirst.

Business and Politics are just different spellings of liar.

[edblysard]

Or we could give them a really long time out...sorta like Enron!

Ed[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by K. P. Harrier

I believe a railroad that lies through its teeth should be broken up into two or more railroads. Because of railroading’s nature and importance to America, the natural process of ELIMINATING unscrupulous businesses through awareness is NOT practical. But government ordered breakups is practical, and very safe! A serious threat of THAT could orientate matters aright within shady companies that happen to be super important to the continued economic well being of the nation.