Saluda Grade

[Anonymous]

I live in the area of the Saluda Grade and do miss seeing the train coming down from Melrose towards the Tryon Country Club (could see this from my house in winter!) I have a friend that works for Norfolk Southern at the Biltmore Yard in Asheville. He seems optimistic on the fact that the line will be reopened eventually. This may yet be a few more years, but one can only hope. The original reason for closing it was economics and shift in rail traffic from coal mines in southern Virginia to West Virginia, but the trains are now being routed through Salisbury, a good 3 hours by train from here. He thinks that the Saluda Grade will probably see regular freight traffic again one day. He also told me that Representative Charles Taylor, District Eleven, found an old legal document dating back to the 19th Century stating that a rail line had to be kept from Charleston, S.C. to Asheville. Even though the rails are cut, Norfolk Southern can not legally remove the rails. I'm not familiar with the law, so I can't tell you anything more about it, but I am trying to find more information about it and keep everyone informed on the status of the line. So far nothing much has been happening. The Carolina Heritage Line was formed not long after the line was "abandoned" and is currently working on establishing rail service along the line, similar to how the Great Smokey Mountains Railroad was formed in Dillsboro and Bryson City, N.C. after their line was abandoned by Norfolk Southern. If I remember correctly, the NCDOT favors this idea and may provide grants for purchasing the Norfolk Southern line if it is completely abandoned. This is all that I can recall off the top of my head. I'm going to try to get a website started on the Saluda Grade and keep information posted.

[Modelcar]

Tchat....Are you in the area of Saluda...? If so, have you heard any update on whether the tracks are to stay in place for the foreseeable future...?

[Anonymous]

i trained on the saluda grade you can actually see inside of the cars while coming downhill!!!!

[Modelcar]

...10-4 Derrick.....QM

[dekemd]

QM

Not sure on the lights, but I'll see what I can find out.

Derrick

[Modelcar]

....Jimmy: Yes, that really would be a sad sight to see thick rust on the former shiney rails at Saluda....I sure tried to see some action coming "up the hill" there in town. Waited up to 4 hrs. each time we visited on our way north in the spring for 3 or 4 years but was never successful...I did get to see the shiney rails though.

QM

[Anonymous]

I was up in Saluda this past weekend. It is sad to see the rust on the rails... The dirt road that parallels the grade down the mountain is a fun drive. There is a one-lane tunnel that goes under the grade halfway down. The grade basically follows the N. Pacolet River up from Melrose, then follows a tributary up to Saluda. It is amazing to look down from Saluda and imagine a train coming up that steep grade. It would be wonderful to see that again. NS really has to "around their elbow" though to avoid this routing...

Jimmy S.
http://abandonedrailroads.homestead.com

[Modelcar]

...Jen, I hope you can find the TRAINS article of 1984 as it is extensive and includes photos and even clears up something in my mind, which is, I was thinking there were two run-away tracks on the "hill" at one time and this article confirms this fact. This article does give a full description of operations and how they were handled and for any fan with high interest, this is really good info.

QM

[Mookie]

QM - I will go and look at it on my lunch hour!

Thanx

Jen

[Modelcar]

...Can anyone respond what the reason might have been to install "night lights" starting at the summit and down along the ROW on the "grade"...Other than to make light. Might they needed the lights to set retainers and inspect equipment before starting down the grade at night, etc...?

QM

[dekemd]

Great! That's the article I was talking about. Glad you found it.

Derrick

[Anonymous]

I had the privilege of riding over Saluda Grade in the fall of 1968. Rode the remnant of the Carolina Special from Knoxville TN to Tryon on the NC/SC line where we got off to board the westbound/northbound train for the return trip. Even though the crew added a second FP-7 at Ashville, they still seemed to have a rough time keeping the two-car train under control going downhill (lots of brakeshoe smoke!). After our decent, I recall looking back from the rear vestibule of the coach, and seeing the tracks rise up behind us like a highway or road headed up hill. Amazing!

John W. Baie, author, www.xlibris.com/TwoTrackMain.html

[Modelcar]

...Derrick, I found it...! Jen, take note...I went to "Google" and typed in: Construction of Saluda Grade, and bingo, the original article from TRAINS magazine popped up...An extensive article about Saluda. Article dates to 1984.

QM

[Modelcar]

...That would be great.

QM

[dekemd]

Somewhere I have an article that tells about the construction and how it came about. If I can find it I'll give you some more details.

Derrick

[Modelcar]

...Thanks Derrick: I just wonder how management at the time Saluda grade was constructed ever ok'd such a project. 4.7 to 5.1% grades are not normal for railroads...all though I'm sure they were prone to steeper grades back 100 years ago plus than now in our times. Even used switch backs then to attain the summit at times.

And I agree, standing at Saluda and looking down the grade is not a natural site.

QM

[dekemd]

Their goal was to reach Asheville with the shortest route possible. The Southern route from Salisbury to Asheville went up the mountain near Old Fort, NC via their version of the Clinchfield loops that added 14 miles to the trip. When they were building the line from Spartanburg, SC up to Asheville they decided to just go straight up the mountain instead of looping around it.

As for operations, when a train is coming down it must stop at the top of the grade in Saluda. Once retainers have been set they start down. The track stays switched to the runaway track. Near the bottom there is a timing section. If the train is under 8 miles per hour the switch will automatically switch to the main line. Trains will stop at the bottom so the retainers can be taken off. Going up is just a matter of cutting the train in two or three blocks and hitting the throttle.

I only live about a 30 minute drive from Saluda and got to see trains there quite often. Standing at Saluda and looking down or in Melrose looking up is quite a sight.

Derrick in wonderful North Carolina

[Modelcar]

...Jen: I suppose if the surveyors had routed the ROW in a more circuitous route which would of added more distance...I imagine it may have been possible to reach the summit with more gentle grades but we don't know just what the reason might have been they did it the way they did. One thing for sure, the lay of the land around that part of the country is mountainous...So it surely would not have been an easy task. But when I stand there and look at that grade and consider it was class one ROW....I can hardly believe what one sees. What went into their thinking over a hunderd years ago to construct as they did we can now only guess at their priorities.

QM

[Mookie]

QM - was that the only place they could put the tracks?

Jen

[Modelcar]

...Yes, I remember that extensive article on the Saluda operation. Don't remember how long ago but your estimate of 25 years must be close. I would have the magazine someplace but not sure where one would start to look.

I would imagine the danger was even greater years ago when steam operation would have been the norm....No dynamics to hold them back then...It had to be all controlled with the air.

Having been there in the last 2 years I noticed where the grade starts down from the town of Saluda....look close and one can see lights on poles every few hundered feet down along the track...They look like the common night lights so many have now....I wonder why they had the track lit as such, and wonder how far down the grade they were installed...

QM

[Dad Howe]

I remember reading once a long time ago that if train speed down hill on Saluda exceeded something like 15 mph, the train was considered a "runaway" and was shunted into the runaway track. Usually the crew would get off before they reached the bottom, if I remember the article correctly. I think I read it in Trains about 25 years ago.

Dad Howe

[Modelcar]

...The terrain there is very mountainous and I doubt if there is any options within economic reach....So It would be my opinion if traffic ever warrants the reopening of the route, it will still be the same old strain to conquer the hill just as before....The route even has a run away track down along the grade just in case a train gets out of control it is headed into the run away track and that shoots up a grade hence slows and stops it. It for sure has been used in the past as I remember seeing a pic of a steam engine on the ground at the end of the run away ROW...As I said, it is really an interesting place for a railfan...

QM

[Mookie]

Thank you - I will do just that!

Jen

[Mookie]

QM - that is interesting. I have never been back east except Boston and that was an airplane into Logan! Maybe someday I can go back there and check out some of the sights like this one.

We still have a few of those towns here in Nebraska, but they are slowly going away - and that is a shame!

But now I wonder if they would do like they have here and if they did re-open the tracks - lower the grade to something smaller. Surely they wouldn't re-open it and then have to take trains up in chunks in this day and age?

Jen

[Modelcar]

...Jen: One more bit of info....Type in Saluda, N C into your favorite search engine and you will be able to read quite a bit more about the location...

QM

[Modelcar]

....To Jen: Saluda Grade is just over the border from S. Carolina into N. Carolina and just off I-26 at exit 28. Get off that exit and head south for about 2 miles and you find Saluda, the small and very quaint and pretty little town especially in the spring when the blossoms are bursting out. The railroad is still all in place but has been shut down from traffic since 2001. The grade crests right there in the little town and the railroad splits right through the center of the community. The steepest part of the grade is 5.1% and I believe it averages around 4.7 for the few miles it climbs to the summit. For a main line R R, that is steep.

It was the Southern Railroad but now is N S. I understand there is a remote possibility of reuse again someday so for now it will be left in place. In my opinion, for the real railfan it is a must place to see...

I understand they had to double and triple the train to get it up the grade when it was operational...We stopped there each spring for 3 or 4 years while returning to the north from Florida and expected to get a look at a train on the "hill", but after waiting up to 4 hrs. each time we came up empty...But I am still very happy I have been there to see what everything looks like. The little town has a half dozen or so restaurants there on main st. right along side the ROW. The Pace General Merchandise store [over a hundred years old], is right there too and it's like walking into a time warp...And Mr. Pace is a real gentlemen to talk to. Hope this data informs.

QM

[Mookie]

Wow! Like run it right straight up a mountain!
I am reading some material on grades, drawbars and Traction - and just read about cutting trains into blocks to get the entire train up a steep grade! Didn't realize it would be that steep!

Thanx Joe

Jen

[JoeKoh]

jen
saulda grade is between hendersonville nc and mascot sc(how y'all doin?)it is a 5.1%grade.
stay safe
joe

[Mookie]

QM - where was the Saluda Grade and how steep?

Jen