Was Gunn Fired for taking his private car/Starlight over the Tehachapi Loop?

[karldotcom]

I still wonder, rerouting the Coast Starlight down the Central Valley and over the famous Tehachapi Loop, and scheduling a 2nd stub Starlight to run down the Coast from San Jose.....right before he got the boot. Plus ever UP and BNSF train was put in the hole.

Pretty expensive reroute...!

Any thoughts?






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[daveklepper]

Gunn was fired because he is competent and Mineta isn't.

[TheS.P.caboose]

I think it was a factor.

The reroute of one of Amtrak's popular trains I don't think was a very good idea.

[kenneo]

Poitics. Pure and simple. Bush REQUIRES complience with his wishes and total loyalty from his appointees. Gunn was neither. His loyalty was to operating a business that was a money loser and to make it profitable (if possible).

Bush wants to complete the job AMTK was supposed to do 30 years ago -- kill the passenger train. There was not supposed to be any passenger trains past 1975. Since they are still around, I guess that could be considered bad management.

[calpoly48]

so what happens to passenger rail? it just disappears into the sunset?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by calpoly48

so what happens to passenger rail? it just disappears into the sunset?

If certain people have their way, exactly.

[Anonymous]

Gunn was fired for using a 19th century model (that has been proven to fail when used in todays society) and refusing to adapt and advance to the 21st century.

No polotics involved, he just stopped lisdtening to the board, was stubboarn and flat out told them no to many times. Many CEO's end up this way, they get the "God" complex and the board ends up having to knock them down.

[TomDiehl]

Sorry Steamer, but that party line argument just doesn't fly. You need to reread the Trains article about him (Nov 2005). Management that praises your work one day, then fires you the next just screams "politics."

And Bush's vision of "21st century passenger rail" means it doesn't exist. Gunn objected to the gross mismanagement suggestions that they put to him, the least of which was breaking up the NEC into separate track and operating companies. These would have led directly to Bush's aim of eliminating passenger rail service.

[Modelcar]

....If Gunn was to subscribe to a 21st century model...who was going to supply the money.....and I completely agree with the above post of TomDiehl on the subject....!

[Anonymous]

Steamer Fan

I hope you have recovered from your recent illness.

Now, let me remind you we have been down this road before.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54115



BTW, have you read the recent article in Trains magazine entitled, 'Nobody said this was gonna be EASY?" In the previous thread you made a statement that Gunn was going to bankrupt Amtrak. This article is about LIRR. In 2004, ridership totaled 79.9 million people. LIRR is one of the busiest passenger railroad in the nation. Notice in the article I just mentioned that LIRR realized long ago that it was a "service" and not a profit making railroad. In 2004, its farebox operating ratio was only 47% (percentage of operating profits gained from ticket sales). Few, if any, public rail services make money. How can you bankrupt something that is already in the hole?

[Anonymous]

Ah and the bandwagon "let's ignore the truths and spew forth Pro-Gunn" squads arrive yet again.

He was fired, congress investigated it (briefly mind you, because they saw the truth), he stated they were right to fire him, everyone on the world has let it go except this vwery small group who keeps trying to cling on and get him rehired.

Facts are he failed to look past the 19th century model and move amtrak to a better position. the "Anti-Bush" crowd seems to think the Administration is out to dismatle Amtrak all together, that is not the case. They do however want to revise it to a more functional model, and have discussed a variety of ways to pay for it. which, the "bandwagon, anti-bush" crowds jumped on one of the ways and started clammering that would be the only way and it would never work.

That being said, Most in Governement want to move to a more regional high speed rail system than a purely cross country mover system. The Acela program, even though the unit train itself was a failure, proved that a regionalized system is profitable. The 911 commision determined that high speed rail between major airport hubs is a must in the event that airplanes are grounded ever again. In order to facilitate this, Cross country rail travel will most likely have to disappear, at least in the short term.

I have written my Governement represenitive and proposed high speed rail between major airline hubs and wished to also have several special cross country trains too. All have written back and assured me that high speed rail between hubs is a high priority that is actively being looked into. this is all part of the massive Transportation laws being dev eloped that will incorporate busses, trains and airlines into an intergrated passenger system that can handle and adapt to any one part being down.

So in conclusion, get your facts straight and get off that bandwagon and start looking at what is really being done.

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SteamerFan

Ah and the bandwagon "let's ignore the truths and spew forth Pro-Gunn" squads arrive yet again.

He was fired, congress investigated it (briefly mind you, because they saw the truth), he stated they were right to fire him, everyone on the world has let it go except this vwery small group who keeps trying to cling on and get him rehired.

Facts are he failed to look past the 19th century model and move amtrak to a better position. the "Anti-Bush" crowd seems to think the Administration is out to dismatle Amtrak all together, that is not the case. They do however want to revise it to a more functional model, and have discussed a variety of ways to pay for it. which, the "bandwagon, anti-bush" crowds jumped on one of the ways and started clammering that would be the only way and it would never work.

That being said, Most in Governement want to move to a more regional high speed rail system than a purely cross country mover system. The Acela program, even though the unit train itself was a failure, proved that a regionalized system is profitable. The 911 commision determined that high speed rail between major airport hubs is a must in the event that airplanes are grounded ever again. In order to facilitate this, Cross country rail travel will most likely have to disappear, at least in the short term.

I have written my Governement represenitive and proposed high speed rail between major airline hubs and wished to also have several special cross country trains too. All have written back and assured me that high speed rail between hubs is a high priority that is actively being looked into. this is all part of the massive Transportation laws being dev eloped that will incorporate busses, trains and airlines into an intergrated passenger system that can handle and adapt to any one part being down.

So in conclusion, get your facts straight and get off that bandwagon and start looking at what is really being done.

Or the "let's ignore the truth and spew forth the pro-Bush, anit-passenger train rhetoric."

And Congress investigated but didn't fight to reinstate Gunn because he wasn't interested in being a political hatchet man.

And you REALLY need to read Bush's early statements on Amtrak, saying he was going to "do away with it." His "better position for Amtrak" is nonexistance.

The most idiotic "aim" of the administration for rail passenger service is to move it into the private sector. How many investors are going to put money into a venture that has done nothing but LOSE money for more years than most of us can remember?

[daveklepper]

Look, I voted for Bush, and for all of Kerry's pronouncements about how pro-public transit he was, he failed to deliver when it came to the Big Dig, which certainly should have included N-Sta S-Sta rail, or even the rail instead of the highway. In Boston of all places!

But, again, conventional professional analysis of ground transportaiton has been all wet for 80 years or so because IT DOES NOT CONSIDER LAND USE.

To me, Mineta is someone who would enter all the hospitals and disconnect all life support systems, iron lungs, fibrolaters, all the high tech stuff, except for the systems used by rich people who were charged "full fare" for the treatment they were getting by the hospital.

There are people out there whos way of life and equinimity and family connections depend on long distance passenger trains in the USA without any othe suitable transportation available.

Anyone wishing to end long distance USA passenger service obviously lacks COMPASSION.

[Anonymous]

Well put, daveklepper.

-a.s.

[Anonymous]

From what I heard he was fired because he wasn't making Progress on Reforms, being stubberon. Another reason was Gunn has sanity unlike Laney, Sosa, Hall, Mineta and Bush Don't.

[espeefoamer]

Gunn was doing too good at the job he was hired to do. This is not acceptable in a government position. Of course he had to go[:(] [:(!].

[chad thomas]

Is it possable he took the ride because he knew he was about to be fired. You know, like screw it, they are gunna fire me anyway. Better get some rare mileage in while I can.[(-D]

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Gunn was fired because he is competent and Mineta isn't.

No one can state it better or more concisly.

[coborn35]

Well, just to let you know, to give you some interesting info,
Minetta was put in a Japenese detention camp when he was 10, during World War 2.
Also, a sub teacher was fired today for saying F*** Y** BUSH!!! multiple times during class.
She also said trains were the stupidist things ever because they pollute so much. I coulda punched her.....but I held my temper and got my justice.

Personally, from the time when I started paying attention to railroad news, 2000ish, it seemed every things was anti-amtrak, and TRAINS magazine even had somea rtivles about how Amtrak was for sure going under. I think Gunn was a very good leader however, and did not conform to things he did not believe, which is what we should be looking for in a leader.

[Anonymous]

no he was not .the reason he was fired was that he was doing the best he had on what was availableto him enough funding just to get by. while the airlines are begging for more money to keep themselves from folding.i notice that american airline which has lost billion since 9/11 are giving there top executives big payouts somewhere in the millions which is a slqp in the face of the employees who had to face concessions in order for the airlines to survive.on amtak you have five member on the amtrak board who admitted they have no railroad experience. an mr. mineta loks like he is on his last leg, he looks old,decrepit.and was the instigator in mr. gunn being fired because he has more than 42yr.in transportation than those five clowns who are a puppet of the bush administration.