Tickets for blocking intersections

[Anonymous]

Trains blocking crossings is an emergency and 911 needs to be notified if crossings are going to be blocked for a period of time. It is normal pratice for crews, ydmstrs or dispatchers to let 911 know if major crossings are blocked. Both BNSF & UP in Wichita will do this.I would hate to delay a 911 response because my stupid train was stalling traffic. This is life & death here.

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rvos1979

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

A slightly off topic but related question. Can you cut the train for the crossing and just set the wheel brakes on a few cars to hold the brakes??

I don't know if this is still done or not, but at Rugby Jct., near Richfield and Slinger, Wisconsin, there was (is?) a hose installed under the Pioneer Rd crossing, in case a long train needed to be parked on the siding for extended periods (the pass is about 8000 feet long total, Pioneer road is right in the middle of the pass). I believe the proceedure is pull in, cut crossing, apply handbrakes on tail end of train to hold it, and then connect hose between the two parts of the train to keep the air test good.

If this hose wasn't there, the next crew could have the fun task of air testing the rear portion of the train after coupling up, blocking the crossing in the process.

Randy

Thank you for your answer. The solution was so simple it plumb evaded me!!! [D)] A simple length of air hose and 2 gladhands. While they still had to verify air test with FRED at least the air lines were not empty. [^]

[chad thomas]

Bad idea. You can get fined for useing 911 when it's not an emergency, trust me on this. And blocking a road is not an emergency.

[Anonymous]

If something takes place that is beyond the train crew control to move a train w/crossing(s) blocked, such as going in to emergency or stopped at a control point w/ no way to proceed, best thing is for either the engr or condr to call 911 on the cell to let them know what is up. This will to a degree get the cops off your back. You have to do anything you can to protect yourself.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

In defense of the motorists, I can see a gripe if they are being held up consistantly at a given crossing, as opposed to the sitgation n_stephenson points out where there was a bona fide problem.

Alternate routes notwithstanding, most of the times I've heard of problems between towns and railroads with regard to crossings did involve repeated cases of such blockages, and an occasional cavalier attitude on the part of the railroad.

Union Pacific got a ticket (or several?) a while back when a crew dropped off a coal train, but didn't quite clear the crossing -- and then left with the engines!!! I think this was even in the Trains NewsWire at the time. People in the area weren't too happy to find out that the power plant will be expanding, but construction is currently underway to separate the grade (Pictures), which will also be advantageous for the upcoming commuter traffic in the area.

[techguy57]

Saw this happen on the Harvard Sub late one night last year. I was coming home from work about 1am and, being the foamer I am, got excited because I could see a freight train slowly crossing the Fox River headed toward Chicago. I thought I'd follow him to just past Fox River Grove and then turn off seing as this wouldn't take me out of my way and at his speed I'd have no problem getting out in front of him. Only problem was that when I got to the next grade crossing I saw that he in fact wasn't moving. In fact he had cut the train in order that rescue personnel from the Fire Department (which is only a couple hundred feet away from one of the crossings) could get through if needed. I could also see that the local PD had squad cars with their lights on on either side of the crossing (Seven Angels Crossing, site of the school bus accident ten years ago) keeping motorists from crossing between the railcars. One fo the train crew and one of the officers were talking cordially although I'm sure no one was enjoying the situation. It was a long train for the area too, about a mile and a quarter long. Needless to say I had to drive a bit further than I planned.[:p]

Mike

[tree68]

In defense of the motorists, I can see a gripe if they are being held up consistantly at a given crossing, as opposed to the sitgation n_stephenson points out where there was a bona fide problem.

Alternate routes notwithstanding, most of the times I've heard of problems between towns and railroads with regard to crossings did involve repeated cases of such blockages, and an occasional cavalier attitude on the part of the railroad.

[Anonymous]

I really don't care If I block a road crossing with as rude as motorists have been to me. I've been cussed at, had things thrown in my direction, and just generally insulted. I did my best to clear a crossing as soon as possible. I blocked road crossings for about a few minutes at the most. I'd like to go to the motorists' job and heckle them at work and see how they like it. The places I have worked there are several viaducts that can be used just a few blocks away, so I really don't feel sorry for a stubborn motorist. Railroads are the reason many towns came to be and most of the railroad infrastructure was there long before most of the town was. I did have one case where my train was having air problems and I had one crossing in a town blocked for a good 15 mintues. I walked across the road with a cop sitting right at the gate. I paid him no mind and just kept walking my train. To me it would be more important to keep working on the problem than have to stop and explain myself.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomasHow can they ticket the conductor?

IIRC, Houston Ed's comments notwithstanding, the conductor is in charge of the train - the engineer "just" drives. The cop doesn't know, or care, that the person responsible for causing the train to block the crossing is in Jax or Omaha, all he knows is that the crossing is blocked and somebody is going to get a ticket. As the senior railroad official on scene, the conductor is the face of the railroad.

[Anonymous]

It's fifteen minutes in Alabama. We have better things to do than ticket trains, but we have been told that if a train does block a crossing, we can ticket it by calling in the citation number and statute violation to the dispatchers, as well as the time of violation.

I live in Columbus, and the NS spur to southeastern Alabama runs right past the main city fire station, the city/county government center, and a major route to a regional hospital. Normally the only train that uses this spur is a local freight that switches out an industrial park in Phenix City, Alabama, and MeadWestVaco south of Seale, Alabama. They run through town at night, whistles blowing and bells ringing, at about 20 miles an hour. I was in the back of an ambulance, escorting a sick inmate to the hospital one night (he had OD'd on some kind of drugs during booking) and sure enough, we got caught on the wrong side of the tracks from the hospital. It wasn't a problem- we ducked up a couple of blocks past the east end of the yard and went around. We were delayed about three minutes.

More serious was the BNSF Phoenix end of the "Peavine" in Arizona. At this end of the line the BNSF main parallels Grand Avenue southeast through town. It was pretty busy with freight traffic about ten years ago when I was an EMT working with a private company. The main station doing 911 ambulance service for Glendale/Phoenix had five ambulances east of the BNSF line. The railroad was not a real problem until the afternoon hours, where inevitably all calls would be west of the main line. The real excitment would be crossing Grand Avenue (six lanes of rush hour traffic- no one paid any attention to lights and sirens) and then looking down the tracks to see a headlight and ditch lights about a quarter mile away heading towards you at a high rate of speed. You could not hear the whistle blowing (sirens tend to drown out pretty much all exterior noise) but you knew it was going, because there were grade crossings every 500 feet, or so it seemed.

Fortunately for me I had a Dale Earnhardt Jr. clone as a driver partner, who had the interesting habit of threading an ambulance through needle wide openings at a high rate of speed. We never ducked around gates- that would have been too dangerous- but there was a lot of spontaneous prayer going on from my side as we flew across active tracks on more than one occasion. (For those who don't have an emergency services prayer book, this prayer usually started off with "Oh God! We're gonna die!"- a common preface.)

I never resented the railroad for doing it's job- I knew (and know now) that most of the time the train crew was well aware of my presence. There was more of a hazard (and still is) from other drivers who never seemed to notice those airhorn sirens and lights behind them.

I've always wondered what the BNSF crews thought, though, as my red and white ambulance bounced over their tracks not far from their front couplers....

Erik

[rvos1979]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

A slightly off topic but related question. Can you cut the train for the crossing and just set the wheel brakes on a few cars to hold the brakes??

I don't know if this is still done or not, but at Rugby Jct., near Richfield and Slinger, Wisconsin, there was (is?) a hose installed under the Pioneer Rd crossing, in case a long train needed to be parked on the siding for extended periods (the pass is about 8000 feet long total, Pioneer road is right in the middle of the pass). I believe the proceedure is pull in, cut crossing, apply handbrakes on tail end of train to hold it, and then connect hose between the two parts of the train to keep the air test good.

If this hose wasn't there, the next crew could have the fun task of air testing the rear portion of the train after coupling up, blocking the crossing in the process.

Randy

[Anonymous]

I sat at a crossing once for 35 minutes waiting for a stupid yd eng going back & forth.I could not turn around. Simply held captive. Drivers were getting PO, walkers crawling under the train. Did not have my cell phone, so I could not call the engr to tell him it may be good for his own safety to move out of the way for a few minutes. That was plain stupid.

[Anonymous]

..."Hi, this is Capt. Rude. and this is my partner Major Richard (***) Head. the reason we're pulling over is..."

[rrandb]

A slightly off topic but related question. Can you cut the train for the crossing and just set the wheel brakes on a few cars to hold the brakes?? Or do you have to blead the air dry and then do another brake test before proceeding. [?] It seem to me the tracks were there first and towns can build either over or underpasses to avoid blockage issues. When railroad traffic caused conficks with other railroads here in kansas city they built fly overs. Other cities have built trenches. When its a serious problem there are answers but I suspect TICKETS are not one of them. The cost to the railroad is like a gnat on an elephants [censorded]. [(-D] If you will excuse my french.. As always ENJOY [2c]

[andrewjonathon]

I think the 10 minute rule is reasonable. Other than in an emergency situtation, blocking a railroad crossing for more than 10 minutes I think is unacceptable. Trains may be very important but hthe rest of society still has to function.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Does this stick in court or does the judge usualy thow it out?

Around here the trains are usually stopped in areas where they do not block grade crossings. Oone spot in particular that I know of, waiting trains stop about 1/8 mile short of the signal, to keep a main street crossing open , during extended waits.

And, I frequently hear the dispatcher confirming how many cars a train has when telling them to hold up in a particular area, like when they run out of hours... Just to make sure there is room.

So, it seems like the RR's can manage the problem with a modest amount of effort.

And, if they screw up some how, and do what they should not be doing, shouldn't they get jacked up for it?

Conceivably , they could be blocking ambulances on the way to the hospital in such instances, or even blocking cops on their way to the donut shop. [;)]

[miniwyo]

I think remeber hearing that an engineer got ticketed in Brighton Colorado for it too. Id love to see one of our overzealous local cops here try it.

[edblysard]

I would have, but I was a one man job, and was ordered not to by the TM...his bad, not mine.

Ed

[SID6FIVE]

It's ten minutes for us,too...usually if we're in for an extended stay we gotta cut the crossings...

[edblysard]

This is exactly why I only carry my railroad ID, and not my driver’s license when at work.

When I am approached by a police officer, I inform him I am working under the orders and direct supervision of a Trainmaster...and then inform him (or her) where to find and how to contact that trainmaster.


I am not operating a motor vehicle on a public highway or public street, which is what a Texas driver’s license is, a permit to operate a motor vehicle as defined by law, on such roads, and I am not required to carry a TDL, unless I am doing so.

This keeps any ticket I might get from going on my driving record, or my insurance record, which does happen, even though it is not a moving violation and you are not operating a motor vehicle.
I am able to produce a photo ID on request, my railroad ID, which is all the law says I have to do to identify my self.

Last time, I refused to give my drivers license number, although he got it right quick from his data terminal in his patrol car.

Houston has the ten minute time period also.

The cop insisted I move, and then threatened me with a ticket....I informed him if I move the train, I am violating a federal law by not following the instructions of the trainmaster and the dispatcher, and he needed to find them to discover why they insisted I pull up to this signal, then wait beyond the ten minute limit.

Last time around, the ticket went to the trainmaster.

Don’t know if the company paid it, or he had too...

Ed

[chad thomas]

Yea, I would think the railroad would get the ticket.

[Anonymous]

Around here, it's usually the railroad who receives the ticket. I see something like this a lot in our local paper---"Wisconsin Central Ltd., Rosemont, ILL, $XXX, blocking railroad crossing, blah blah blah.."

Never heard of the conductor being ticketed, though...[?][:(!]

[chad thomas]

I just read this from the Altamont Press site:



Train ticketed for blocking traffic

A conductor of an Iowa, Chicago & Eastern train was cited by Austin, Minnesota police Tuesday for blocking a street for longer than the permitted time.

Capt. Curt Rude said an officer driving westbound on Eighth Avenue Southeast at approximately 19:14 Tuesday when he approached the northbound train as it was stopped on the track. He waited about 10 minutes before he began to keep track of time.

He then contacted the railroad company and learned the train was in route to Lansing. A second officer spoke with the conductor at 19:45 as he was still stopped. The engine was near Eighth Avenue Northeast, meaning it had been blocking three roads, Rude said.

The train actually left at 19:50, the report stated. The first officer spoke with a driver from the opposite side of the tracks, who said he had been stopped since 19:02 and that the train was not moving when he got there. He further said the trains blocking traffic has been an ongoing problem.

The conductor, Mark Johnson, 34, was cited for misdemeanor limiting time of a railroad street crossing. Rude said trains are allowed to block traffic no more than 10 minutes. Rude said the citation is the first of its kind he remembers being issued. - Josh Verges, The Austin Daily Herald, courtesy Larry W. Grant

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How can they ticket the conductor? It's not his fault (I don't think). There must have been a reason they had to stop. Does this stick in court or does the judge usualy thow it out?