Streetcars

[Anonymous]

I , like you, grew up in the 50's and 60's I spent a lot of time in Boston and St. Louis. I was saddened on 5/21/66 when the last car ran. At the time, it was inevitable. National City Lines had been in place there from 1940 until 1963 when the public agency took over. IF not for the war the cars would have gone 5 years earlier. When expenses were properly allocated, over the long haul they really were cheaper than buses but no one ever said that politics is rational and it took politics for General Motors to pay off local government officials to buy the lines and to have them romoved and all the scrap disappearing. Glad to see the full circle coming around again but the streetcar will never be fully in charge of urban transit again. No one is going to ever again want to foot the bill for the infrastructure. In the short run, buses are cheaper to get started cause the road is already there.

[Modelcar]

...Jim: Yes, one example would be the light bridge that was between Moxham and Ferndale over the river. As well as the grades required to get the system from downtown all the way up to Westmont.

QM

[Anonymous]

There was a fear that traction companies would get into the freight business and begin hauling steam railroad freight cars through the city streets, so many localities required the local streetcar company to build to a different gauge than that used by the steam roads brfore a franchise would be issued. As this was generally legislated by a local governing body, of course was not always the case and some traction companies did, in fact, build to standard steam railroad guage. Very few, however, got involved in the freight business.
Interurban lines were generally less local in nature and many of them, in fact, were built to steam railroad standards in order to operate standard freight cars as well as regional passenger service.
In my home state of Pennsylvania, most city systems were built to a guage of 5'2-1/2", often reperred to as "Pennsylvania Broad Gauge". While this may have been required by local authorities, it was really a moot issue as trolley lines in Pennsylvania were generally built with such tight curves, steep grades and light bridges, that it would have been impossible to run standard freight cars on them. As an example, Johnstown Traction built to the standard 4' 8-1/2" railroad gauge, but it would be unimaginable to run a boxcar on any part of the system. The city fathers in Johnstown apparently had a more practical slant on the issue than their peers throughout most of the Keystone state.
Jim Kubanick
Roseau MN

[cabforward]

ummm, excuse me, sir, if you don't mind? just one more thing, it's a very minor point, if you don't mind, sir, and it would really clear things up for me in this investigation..

i have noticed that every city rail system i have observed has a different gauge than regular railroads.. now, sir, if you don't mind helping me in this, why do city rail systems have a different track-gauge?

lt. columbo

[Modelcar]

....Have we run out of streetcar tokens...er, talk.

QM

[Mookie]

Since we have become the "food" forum - those Jelly Bellies are #1 in my book - and I don't even like Jelly Beans! Lowell could send some since he ate the cake!

Jen

[Modelcar]

Lowell...I can understand why you never have any jelly bean extras. When one starts on them there is no stopping...until the pkg. is empty. Love those jelly beans. Site here is Muncie, In.

QM

[edblysard]

You know, we eat jelly beans in Houston too!

[bfsfabs]

DUUHHHH !! Brain is non functional to day, I guess. Cal-Train, right here on the San Francisco peninsula, has F40PHs named for the cities they serve along the line.

Lowell

[cabforward]

naming r.r. stock for people, places, things (def. of a noun from school) is a great idea. it should give people a personal connection to transit or r.r. cars were named for locations for many years..

amtrak has names for all its trains.. they should name each car for something to do with the name of the run..

example: train (made-up): silver comet, cars: milky way, horse's head, saturn, polaris..

[bfsfabs]

Ed / cabforward, I don't know if romance or reverence truly applies, but Metra in the Chicago area has locos named for towns and some for people. I just made some N scale decals for a guy there.

Lowell

[bfsfabs]

QM, OK, guess I'd have to mail 'em from the factory. 'Cause there are NEVER any leftovers when I get back home. Where ?

Lowell

[edblysard]

Type amtrak noupt into your search enging, it brings up the new orleans pass terminal. I bet your right, thats what noupt stands for. You can also read the GCOR on that site.
Orleans and Kenner was a traction/interurban between Now Orleans and Kenner, La. Thats about all I know about it.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

when you said the head light came on, i thought that was a command from the engineer..

what is noupt? new orleans union pass. term.?

is orleans & kenner in new orleans?

[edblysard]

Writing from home, off day, have to work tomorrow. Went digging, found photo, clatter really did rattle brain, Orleans belonged to Orleans & Kenner railway, combine #5 from American Car company. Didnt the Katy name some of their E units after racehorses?
Cant think of any other diesel "named" but thoses.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Modelcar]

....Lowell, I'll take some black and onange jelly beans...Um good...!!

QM

[cabforward]

i never heard of the 'orleans'.. my reference talks about elec. units houston, baytown, highlands & goose creek..

diesel cars were numbered but not named.. i guess diesel will never be romantically revered..

are you writing from work?

[edblysard]

Cities? I know there was one named Baytown, and one named Orleans, and somewhere in the pile of old photos is a shot of one, titled Goose Creek.
Read you early reply, the "head" light went on about 30 seconds after I posted...
Ed

[edblysard]

About 30 seconds after I posted, the light went on. Well, overexposure to "clatter" will do that to you....wonder why you never see it in big time press and magazines, you would think the last one built would generate more interest.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[cabforward]

each car was named for something.. guess what it was..

also see my reply to your earlier comment..

[cabforward]

you make me drool with that description.. like a sirloin steak or the playmate of the month..

[cabforward]

dont you recall discussions we had between nov. and jan.?

i asked about interurbans and you told me that the old r-o-ways between mp & sp made a connection between baytown and the refinery?

i rambled about the times i spent on the the train, etc.

i rode it hundreds of times between '56-'61.. it converted from elect. to diesel in '48, due to declining interest and popularity of cars post-war..

if you want to read it again, i can write it again..

i have a book about the system, the beginnings of the towns of baytown & highlands, how the refinery got started, etc..

[bfsfabs]

I know this is a bit far away from you guys, San Francisco and San Jose CA both operate some old (PCC) and ancient (Wooden) equipment in daily service. Sure are neat to watch and ride. Also the Rio Vista trolly/interurban museum is only about 90 miles away. Rio Vista operates 5 or, ah, maybe 8 miles of old Sac Northern right of way weekends and during the summer. Trouble is, Ya gotta go RIGHT PAST the Jelly Belly jelly bean factory to get to Rio Vista. Makes the trip a "twofor".

I'm a hard case steam fan, but have a soft spot in my head for wooden interurbans. See ya there someday, maybe . . .
Lowell

[edblysard]

Just snaped to the HO in HOpe, ok, so I need coffee before I read..if your are looking for prototype info, try the Houston North Shore, it was a interurban passenger service and a freight hauler, the last electric railroad built in America. The best of both worlds, it hauled passengers and workers from Houston to Baytown and the Humble (Exxon) refinery before IH 10 was built. Had several types of motors, rail buses in the later days. Good research reference book would be "Houston North Shore" by Charles C. Robinson and Paul L. DeVeter, put out by CERA, the Central Electric Railfans Association, lots of photos of the old MoPac electric motors, and a bunch of roster info, and just a well written and researched book. You could write CERA AT p.o. BOX 503, Chicago, Ill, 60690-0503 for a catalog of their publications, they have a lot of traction info.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Yea I forgot about the Kenosha Trolleys. They have an event coming up soon. Thanks again Dave..:)
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Modelcar]

...How extensive [in milage], is the new trolley system in Kenosha..? I used to visit there while still on the job...[The American Motors Plant].

QM

[Modelcar]

...The steel wheel on steel rails have always held an interest to me as well in the transportation system. In our midwest city here in Indiana the streetcar system was stopped around 1931...and some evidence of it's existence is still visible. At one intersection in the western part of town the rails are still open and visible...A cement street that has not been changed. Several car barns are still in existance as well. Of course used for other purposes now. Interurban ROW's are still visible in several directions out of the city...They stopped running about 1941. Here the terrain is level but in the east at Johnstown, Pa. the system that I remember and actually rode on, had grades to reach around in the area and must have been a factor. It was all interesting.

QM

[dknelson]

Iceman (and others) Don't forget the wonderful new trolley system in Kenosha Wisconsin. They have historic PCC cars painted to honor great cities that had PCC cars. For all of about twenty five cents you can ride around the city's development zone including a very nice new natural history museum. You also go past the old Chicago & North Western depot which still features passenger service (Metra commuter trains but a train's a train). One time I was there the Dennis Sullivan, Milwaukee's new 2-masted schooner, was docked at the public dock -- so you could ride a trolley past a tall ship!
And again that was twenty five cents to ride as much as you want. They are having a trolley festival in June that will also feature an historic WWII bus plus historic displays.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

The 'Real' street and trolley cars have not roamed the Milwaukee streets since the 60's. We have the bus "Trolley" still but its just an trolly frame built over a bus chassis. The good news is that the East Troy Railroad Museum (www.easttroyrr.org) is only 45 mins from Milwaukee. I spent almost the entire opening day gawking over all of there equiptment!
If its on rails I have some intrest of it!

Icemanmike-Milwaukee
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