Ohio Central ends excursions

[PaulWWoodring]

The Ohio Central announced today that it is ending most, if not all public excursion and steam operations, effective June 1. The last Sugar Creek excursions will be this Saturday, and the last trip with 4-8-4 #6325 will be May 31, Dennison - Newark. There will be an excursion on June 21st for the Ohio Bicentenial, that may not be a public excursion. The program has been done in by - what else - insurance rates. There are no immediate plans to sell the locomotives. See Railway Preservation News.com for the offical notice.

[Soo2610]

Isn't it wonderful? The gosh danged insurance companies are rapidly destroying everything wonderful as we know it with their highly exorbitant rates. Wonder when the last time was that they had to pay off on a boiler explosion on an excursion train? With all the FRA mandated inspections required on these locomotives and the costs incurred you would think the rates would be going down, not up.

[Anonymous]

YES, THE INSURANCE CARRIERS HAVE DONE IT AGAIN. THIS IS ESPECIALLY SAD SINCE A CONSIDERABLE SUM HAS BEEN SPENT ON THE GTW RESTORATION. IT COMES PARTLY BECAUSE WE TEND TO PANIC AT EVERYTHING! HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR COMMON SENSE TO RETURN IS ANYONE'S GUESS. I HOPE IT'S SOON!

[dknelson]

Don't blame the gosh dang insurance companies.
They lose their shirts in trials. Those losses become higher premiums, or getting out of a loser market.
Don't blame the trial lawyers -- they are doing their jobs.
Don't blame the judges -- they don't write the laws.
Blame the juries that make these huge awards, often to people whose injuries are their own darn fault. And those jurors are folks just like you and me, who are given the chance to stick it to someone they think is rich or can afford it. They've waited all their lives to take out these frustrations.
Maybe you wouldn't stick it to a railroad museum -- but based on your comments it sounds like you'd stick it to an insurance company -- and that ends up being the exact same thing. If an insurance underwriter cannot determine what the risk is of running a train or firing up a steam locomotive because who knows what some jury in Ohio or Alabama or Mississippi would do about it (and don't think that a problem in an Ohio museum wouldn't become a lawsuit in Texas or Mississippi or southern Illinois based on creative theories of jurisdiction) then the policy cannot be issued. You have to know what the risk is to price it and issue the policy and these days, when hot coffee at McDonalds means millions of dollars to a women who held her coffee between her legs while she drove (!!), you cannot know the risk of anything anymore. So the insurance is not issued. So the museum closes down.
Dave Nelson

[bowlerp]

There is more than a single reason. It is a bad combination of circumstances including the terrorist situation, underwriters having to pay huge sums for natural disasters over the past few years, especially tornados, and the Medina tractor explosion certianly did not help. Medina, Ohio, was a tragic circumstance brought on partly by below standard maintenance of the machine and the distraction of traffic cop not allowing the crew to break away from the line into the fairgrounds to find additional water for the boiler. It did not have to happen tthat day necessarily, but it certainly caught the attention of underwriters to the destructive potential of boilers. It is not something that had been in top of the mind awareness for many years since Gettysburg was the only excursion train that ever had a bad problem other than simple delays.

A great deal of the insurance trouble arose after Medina, coincidentally or not. I choose to think the correlation is a strong one. It is ironic, especially after the new FRA regs promised to make excursions even safer than ever before.

[Anonymous]

Make all the excuses you want, the basic underlying cause for higher insurance rates has it's roots in "corporate greed". Most of the salaries that the heads of the insurance companies garner, along with "bonuses" etc. would make your head spin for months! I see no reason for the entire nation to be held financially responsible for the whims of these so-called victims of liability claims. Do you even think for one minute, that these insurance companies are actually loosing money? If so, then you have fallen victim to the oldest game in the business world. There MIGHT be a few insurance companies whose books are filled with red ink, but I would put that blame on mis-management, NOT unavoidable losses. Certainly the "call a lawyer" mentality has put a dent in the old profits, but that is the nature of insurance. After all, if YOU were going to be immune to claims against yourself, then why buy insurance? Sure, it's "Catch-22", but these folks make their fortunes on our insecurity. When their tail is in the fire, what do they do? They just pass the buck, in the form of higher premiums, and still have their mansions, yachts, etc. etc.etc....
Everybody looses here, except them....

[dknelson]

the stock market reports are printed in every good daily paper
look up a property casualty insurance company and see how its stock is doing.
The financial markets don't decide that on a whim or emotion but looking at the $$. Is corporate pay out of line? Probably. Compared to what? What the 13 year old kid just got for endorsing Nike?
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

YOU MISS THE POINT-THAT WE AS A COUNTRY PANIC AT MOST ANYTHING. TO BE SURE 9/11 CAUSED MUCH PANIC AMONG INSURANCE CARRIERS, BUT MOST POLICIES PROBABLY HAVE A CLAUSE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. GIVEN THE VERY FEW, RELATIVELY SHORT EXCURSIONS RUN AND THE RELATIVELY SMALL GROUP THAT RIDES AND SUPPORTS THEM, ARE SUCH HUGE PREMIUMS JUSTIFIED? I THINK NOT. DON'T FORGET THAT IT'S THE CARRIERS REQUIRING SUCH HUGE POLICIES TO RUN THE TRIPS-PERHAPS THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING "WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO THIS". I SAY AGAIN WE PANIC TOO EASILY .

[dknelson]

No you miss the point
If spilled coffee means millions in damages just WHAT is the liability to be priced for to run an excursion train?
Oh by the way todays paper tells us that Shell Oil is being sued over that tragic night club fire in Rhode Island some weeks ago. Why? Because they stored gas on site? No -- because you could buy tickets to the concert at a local gas station that was a Shell Oil station.
And I would wager the jury will find Shell Oil responsible for millions, maybe billions, in burn injuries and death. So you are Shell Oil's insurance company -- what do you charge for premiums now? So you are a steam excursion's host railroad's insurance carrier. What is the liability? You can't even say what it is anymore. So it is in theory infinite. So the premiums are infinite likewise.
It isn't just excursion trains that are being killed. When was the last time you had your ten year tetanus booster shot? Guess what! The stuff is not MADE any more! The company that made it was sued out of existence. So don;t step on any rusty nails
Dave Nelson
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

My eyesight is just fine, I can see lower-case type just as well as ALL CAPS. You might not be aware of proper "nettiquitte", but using all caps amounts to "yelling". It is a bit irritating to say the least.....
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

You're right! I wasn't aware of this. Don't do much stuff like this on-line. Thanks for telling me-just trying to make it easier to read.
thanks again

[Anonymous]

No thanks are needed, just glad you weren't one of those "hot-heads" who would take offense to my comment. Happy Rails..
Todd C.