Just Regular Folk....

[Mookie]

I am trying frantically to come up with a question that won't provoke a crossing response, so here goes.

I know there are yard masters, there used to be superintendents and beyond that I am at a loss.
After Engineers, Brakemen and Conductors, what is the next step up? Do they promote from the rank and file?

Ed, you are a switch foreman, which means what exactly. And how does that compare with the conductor - or is that not an acceptable comparison....

Jen

[zardoz]

To begin with, I'll start a heated discussion on who is the boss on a train. The Conductor is technically the boss, although both the Conductor and Engineer share equal responsibility for rules observance. The Conductor does the paperwork, most of the physical work (switches, air hoses), while the Engineer does the mental work (some would say some engineers are more mental than others) by actually operating the train; the Conductor does most of the sleeping between points.

Anyway, to actually answer your question, when I was on the CNW, the first level above crew member was either TrainMaster (train service) or Travelling Engineer (engine service). I believe the UP uses the term MOP (manager of operating practices) to replace those old positions. The TM or TE persons were higher in authority than the yardmaster, but below Superintendant. Above that I am not sure.

Superintendant
TrainMaster or Travelling Engineer
Yardmaster
Conductor/Engineer
Trainman/Switchman

[Mookie]

Yardmaster, trainmaster and superintendent were the only ones I was familiar with. I know there are some new ones, but don't have a clue. But this is a start.

Thanx

Jen

[Anonymous]

Nowadays, you start as a switchman in the yard; next is road conductor; locomotive engineer, which takes the longest training time. At any point prior to this, one can qualify for remote if a class is open. Yardmasters used to come from the clerks or switchmen, and engineers weren't allowed to hold seniority as engineer and yardmaster at the same time; but that no longer applies. An engineer can qualify as yardmaster. The clerks are about gone. Assistant trainmasters generally are promoted from yardmasters, and full traimmasters come from asst. t.m. The super usually had been a full t.m. The next stop into the galaxy of railroad officialdom would be general manager or perhaps right into vice-president. Al Crown, the chief operating officer on CSXT, I remember as a yard clerk. Under the old ways, trainmen worked up to conductor, and firemen worked up to engineer, and there was no cross-pollinating unless you gave up your seniority as a brakeman to become a fireman (which is what I did). The engineer's boss, the road foreman of engines is a qualified engineer somewhere; this prevents some nimrod who doesn't know anything about running an engine from telling an engineer what to do. And if there was NOTHING you could do, they made you a crossing watchman. (HA HA HA HA HA HA!) [this means you provoked a crossing response] HAW!

[cabforward]

i have no r.r. exp., but i can repeat what csx & ns have printed in brochures and what r.r.-approved colleges, which offer training up to qualifying for the first day on-the-job, have printed in their catalogs about r.r. entry service.. (this is about class 1 lines)..

after graduation from any college, or r.r. in-house training, you train for approx. a year (cond. trainee).. you are on the extra board for 15+ years; you can work in a yard mon.; tuesday, you are taking a cab 150 mi. to a job in a town you never heard of; wed., you have 8 hours off; the phone rings, and you are off again to another job 75 mi. away, for a week; fri, you are back in the yard; sat, you work a local; sun, you work the yard; mon, who knows?

after a year (maybe more, maybe less), you get a raise from trainee to full-fledged conductor (still on extra board), and pray that st. peter is saving a place for your soul, 'cause your a** belongs to the r.r..

at any time after completing cond. trainee, notification can come to apply for engineer school (dep. on seniority).. application must be made, or find another job..

state schools that operate r.r. training courses: johnson county comm. coll., overland park, ks; univ. north florida, jacksonville, fl.. approx. 20 schools nation-wide have schools like this.. tuition runs approx. $3-4,000, all of it up front, plus books and lodging.. i recall a comment that 1 absence, and you're dropped from the course; or that 1 absence is allowed, but no more..

ns has an in-house training camp at mcdonough, ga, there may be others.. attending a r.r. in-house camp, the r.r. pays an allowance.. all training, r.r. & school-run, lasts about 6 weeks..

bet you cant wait to call!

[csxengineer98]

on csx it is as follows... i might get some of them wrong... so anyone that knows for sure feel free to jump in

supper is the top dog on the divison
terminal manager
train master/road forman of engines
yard master/conductor/engineer all just about equal...we are the bottom of the stick...
their are other people like the divison road forman and the seinor road forman... as well assistant train masters... but a boss is a boss..they all can fire you just as easy as the one above him/her....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is probably a dumb question,(for I do not work for the railroad) but does a Maintance of Roadway foreman out rank a Train Master. If there is any conflict, who has more authority? Train movement operation's or Maintance of Way? Who would resolve these conflicts?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Well Tim, I can't answer you on that one... actually I find it really interesting reading the differences between freight operating hierarchy and passenger. Where I work we must have the most screwed up hierarchy!

At VIA, top dog is the engineer. But we always have two hoggers in the head end called an In Charge Locomotive Engineer (ICLE) and an Operating Locomotive Engineer (OLE), but don't you dare call them that - they won't answer you. Next down the totem pole after the engineers, I guess, would be the Yard master, which is really more a borrowed term, by the sounds of it. The yardmaster is responsible for the movement of the trains in the yard or of a large station, like union. But they're usally people who have their rule, but were unsuccessful at become engineers. Next at VIA (and yes we're WIERD alright, but it suprising works quite well) is the service manager, and then the service attendants. The whole on-board crew plays a much bigger role in the safety in an emergency, sort of modeled after flight crews in a way...difference? We're nice and safe on the ground!!!!

[edblysard]

Allrighty then, Casey J,
You already know where I work, and due to the loose nuts roaming around here, I leave off on thet, but heres how it stacksup where I work, from the bottom up.
Lowest life form is a switchman helper. He, or she, is the poor slob in the middle of the yard, running around like mad, trying to throw the correct switches to get the cars where they belong.
My position is a engine foreman/switchman foreman. Because we dont have any "road jobs" the powers that be decided to not call us conductors, because they would ten have to pay us like conductors, mileage and all that, but the duites are the same. Most class 1 roads have a seperate set of job descriptions, theres yard service, and over the road service. Yardmen have a slightly different pay rate and senority rules, but for the most part share the same duties as the road crews, just in a more limited space.
My job as a engine foreman/switchman foreman means I am responsible for where my engine goes, and what we do with it. I am in charge of the locomotive, and responsible for how we perform our job. I am also the job foreman, or switchman foreman, even though both I and the engineer share responsibility for following safety rules, I am the guy who has to fade the heat if something goes wrong. This honor earns me $5.00 and day more than a switchman. Yeah, wow. Besides having to make decisions as to which cars to switch, in what order we do so, and where we put them when we are through, my duties mirror those of a conductor. I have to make sure there is cover on a train, (five or more non hazarodous cars behind the locomotive, no shiftable loads against hazadrous materials) and that its blocked out correctly, in other words, all the cars for one industiy are together in a solid block, and these blocks are arranged in the order each of our "road" jobs will work their plants and industries. When we do yard to yard transfers, I assume the role of conductor, I have to make sure all the paperwork is correct, the train is properly air tested, we have our track bulletins, I have to talk to the dispatchers, all the duites of a road conductor.
When we are building a outbound train for, say UP, I have to make sure it too has cover cars, and follow all the rule about hazadrous materials as for our own trains. I also have to block out their train, in the order of the yards it will stop in on its trip.
So, again from the bottom of the pay scale up, and everybody starts out here, its switchman, switchman/foreman, engine/foreman/switchman foreman, engineer. That covers our T&E, (train and engine employees) From engineer, you can become a yardmaster, an class by itself, which can lead to a job as a company official, or you can become a assistant trainmaster, then trainmaster. We have several other official jobs with the same rank and power as trainmaster, we have road foreman of engines, safety rule officer, maintainance of way supervisor, and chief clerk and car department supervisor. After that, due to our size, there isnt much farther you can go. Above the trainmaster class is the superintendent, then the General manager. After that, the board of directors. Both the super and the general are appointed by the board, and dont necessarly come from a railroad background, all other officials jobs are earned by seniority, with the approval of the board of directors. And by the way, here, once your a official, you are rerquired to learn how to play golf, and dress and act as if you like it. Jeans and a cowboy shirt dont cut it, its dockers and a polo shirt, with work boots that have tassels.
Stay Frosty
Ed

[Mookie]

Skeets - I will print this out and add it to my things to study. My training stopped at fireman to engineer and switchman/brakeman to conductor.

I have heard some pretty wild stories, but that is the first time I have heard that there was cross-pollinating on the railroad - I am almost sure they used to call it something different.

Now go back to watching your xing!

Jen

[Mookie]

except for the schools that offer the courses, not much has changed since it was just OJT. Or dad worked for railroad, so son just naturally followed in his footsteps.

I guess I am too late - I just hated going to school and would rather learn as OJT than go to school.

Jen

[Mookie]

GASP - Engineer is bottom of stick?

Jen

[Mookie]

Ed - will have to take some time to digest all this, but if your employer gets any bigger, you will have to get a whole new set of titles. Wow!

I just don't think I can deal with all this hierarchy and I am going to switch my search for a new job. I am now going to play basketball and make $90 million in endorsements w/o even playing
my first game!

I am also going to have to go take two aspirin - I have a headache!

:)

Jen

[Mookie]

Zardoz1 - I just re-read your posting - found the tee-hee about the conductor sleeping. I have heard this more than once and was wondering if that was why the railroads put "sleeping cars" on their trains?

We are both going to get in trouble for this one!

Jen

[Mookie]

Traveling engineer? I know there used to be someone that would ride up front (when they had cabooses) and would monitor what the fireman and engineer did occasionally. Kind of a drivers testing moment.

Differences or a completely different job?

[edblysard]

Could be a pilot, but my bet its the road foreman of engines, who, on our road, has to make three trips per month. He is in charge of all of the engineers, and their locomotives, and has to be a qualified emgineer himself.
Our safety rules supervisor has to make one trip a week, and performs tests daily.
Ed

[Mookie]

road foreman sounds correct.

[zardoz]

I am amazed--all those replys and no one up in arms about the sleeping conductor comment. Like you said, I thought we would get lots of grief.

But to be fair, I'm sure there are conductors that must wake up the engineer occasionally.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Jenny
I think you mis read me. I started with who was top dog and worked my way down.
Ya, no way is the service attendant top dog...haha..could you imagine!!!

[wabash1]

if we said anything about the sleeping conductor then we haft to listen to him complain for the next 2 hrs til he falls back to sleep. everyone knows that the engineer is doing all the work anyways. sorry ed it had to be said. lol

[edblysard]

Uh, huh? Sorry, I just woke up, could you say that again?

[Mookie]

Talked to an engineer (40 years) who is now 86 - he said he remembered the time the first woman was hired - I believe as a brakeman. She was in the cab with him and they were about 22 miles out of the yard and had to wait almost 2 hours - middle of the night to get in. He said "we were sitting there dozing and I told her not to tell my wife that we were sleeping together."

Proves two things - the wife had a good sense of humor and the engineer was napping!

Jen

[Jackflash]

Not going to bad mouth the conductor...first, I was one once...second, my conductors have helped
me out late at night more than once. jackflash

[Mookie]

Got two more titles from the past - Master Mechanic and Road Forman. Any ideas what they are now?

Jen

[CShaveRR]

A Road Foreman (of Engines) is the same as a Traveling Engineer, now called Manager of Operating Practices on the UP. (The joke around the office used to be "grab a MOP").

I'm not sure what they call the boss in the shop any more, except for a foreman, but the "Mechanic In Charge" (MIC--see you real soon) is probably one of his subordinates.

[Mookie]

Carl - that was what we finally decided - the Traveling Engineer was the old Road Foreman. Frankly - I liked the old terminology better!

Jen