Rest of Train

[Mookie]

I will keep this in mind - I am always open to learning the little tricks of the trade! I will have to start writing down some of this so I will sound like a real hoghead! And keep my eyes open so I can protect my fellow crew members! Got it!

Jen

[wabash1]

You go girl.... its your train and yu can call it anything you want... and being the engineer is awake all most if not all of the trip while everyone else is napping. that is why we get opinionated. if you really want to get opinionated just stop 5 or 6 cars from the switch and make that conductor wolk it to line you in. tell him that you thought he needed to walk in the fresh air to wake up.

[Mookie]

Going to print this out, take it to my training and look at these cars very carefully. We have a lot of coal cars and some grain cars. I did know about the end paint job for the coal cars.

I have seen some bottom dumpers that were 3 and even 4 across the bottom. Now it gives me something else to watch.

If curiosity expands my tiny space, I will have to get a bigger hat - I have a lot of curiosity.

Thanx

Jen

[CShaveRR]

Don't worry about the tiny space--curiosity will expand it as necessary!

There's nothing definite in the differences, except that coal gons have solid bottoms and hopper cars have doors at the bottom. Practically all of the hoppers have angular bays perpendicular to the rails...they're usually smaller on conventional hoppers and larger on the air-dump variety (when those open, it's almost like the bottom falling out of the car).

Also, even some of the air-dump hoppers have rotary couplers (you know, I presume, that the distinctive markings--color, band, or whatever-- determine the end with the rotary coupler...a few cars have them at both ends). This allows them to be used at practically any dumping facility.

I hope this makes things a little clearer.

Grain is transported in covered hoppers, which almost always (at least the grain cars) have manually-operated openings, three or four to a car. I don't think we'll ever see a air-dump grain train, though the concept is interesting. I'm not sure what the rules about inspection of the grain are, but as long as that process is as slow as, or slower than, unloading the cars, there's not a need to increase unloading speed.

[Mookie]

OK - them there things that are yellow and hang down on the side and are a pain, since that gol-darn EOT could lay somewhere else instead of there!

I don't know, but "yellow thingie" just seems to be much easier.

Now I got to get back to drivin' ma train!

Jen

Jen

[Mookie]

I am sorry Skeets! I thought it was just my job to sit on the head-end and take short naps and once in awhile jerk the train and upset the brakeman/conductor...Didn't realize I could be opinionated, too! This is more than I hoped for!

Jen

[Mookie]

Thank you! I had wondered if that wasn't the usual way.

[Anonymous]

And stop saying "yellow thingie". Hogheads NEVER say yellow thingie. Your crew is going to be upset enough after snapping all those airhoses. I'm just trying to help you. skeets

[Anonymous]

DAG-NAB IT, girl! If you're the engineer of this here train, you're supposed to have the answers; all kinds of answers! You're also supposed to have OPINIONS! Lots of them! skeets

[Anonymous]

Ed, That explanation was perfect. For the first time (and I have read a lot of books) I understand how a trains brake system works. I now also understand why there is a delay in getting trains out of a yard. I assumed building a train amounted to simply coupling cars together. Forgot about the brake system. I bet on cold day's testing a brake system could be a real challenge at times. Bet you can tell when they got cars out of storage and brake system has not been used for a while. (sticky brakes) Thanks!!!
TIM A

[CShaveRR]

Short answer to your last question: you can usually hear it as you walk the length of the train looking for it.

[Mookie]

OK - something else I will have to keep in mind.
That tiny space is fast filling up!

Now, how will I know the difference - unless it is the rotary coupler ones I see all the time that only have one hose and the ones that unload thru the bottom that have two? I know the grain trains usually have the openings at the bottom.
So help me out here....

Jen

[CShaveRR]

Before you do that, Jenny, please realize that only the rapid-discharge hopper cars, with air-operated gates, have the two sets of hoses. The far-more-common coal gons have only one.

[Mookie]

Wabash - my first reaction was to ask you which part was more clear. But after the 4th reading, I think I see what you are saying. Which brings me to - if you have a leak somewhere that is big enough to notice and it's on a 125 car train - how do you know where to look for it?

I am beginning to think rocket science isn't any more complicated than running a train.

Jen

[wabash1]

jenny to make it more clear for you ill go where the others left off. On a brake test with locomotives attached i must pump the brake pipe up to 15lbs of the brake pipe setting. on 90lb air i must be up to 75lbs.on the rear of train.but lets make this simple. i must run a 90lb brake pipe so i pump them up to 90lbs. when i have this the carmen tell me to set the brakes. i must make a full service brake pipe reduction. (the actual reduction is 23-26lbs) but for simplicity lets say 25lbs.i draw the braks down to 75lbs, when the air stops blowing i cut the brakes out. this keeps the compresser from pumping on the brakes. after the 1st minute then i read the brake pipe and start the time its the second min i see how much air leaks out. ( air will move like waves in a ocean so to let it settle down you must wait a minute) of the leaks are below 5lbs in the second min the train is fine. the longer the train the better chances of a big leaker getting pass. the other test they are talking about is the airflow test, i know about it but wont do one. that is it on leak test and brake test. hope this clears things up.

[Mookie]

Railroads are very lucky that there are people who will do this kind of work (all railroading). It takes a special kind of person to work at any job in all the elements and under adverse conditions that have been covered here before.

My scarf is off to all of you that work on the railroads!

Jen

[Anonymous]

I can't add to much to Ed's answer.
There are no carmen in the yard I work in. We service a paper mill and make up north and south bound trains. It's a mix of box cars, chemical cars, lumber, logs, propane etc...etc... In other words EVERY car has to be coupled by the conductor. Now in a 20 to 40 car train this isn't usually to bad but consider what 20 to 30 below temps do to those air hoses. It's just like trying to bend a piece of re-bar!! Different materials are used to make hoses and some are worse then others. I've even had to carry a fussee before to heat up the most stubborn ones to be able to bend them. Sometimes it's like the officials can't figure out why things slow down in the winter around here. Hmmm.....minus 30 degrees and snow to your crotch..... I can't figure it out either.
Slofr8.

[Mookie]

Wow - reading all that gave me a headache. I will print it off and go home and lie down! Will have to study this very carefully until I figure it all out. Maybe I can do this in the cab of my train I am building, while I am waiting for the yard to clear so I can get in. :)

[Mookie]

I didn't realize they had two sets of hoses on coal cars - I need to look at this a little closer.

Thanx

Jen

[edblysard]

We use the 5 psi. More than that, we have to find and repair the leaker, or BO the car. I think your right on the air flow, but I am not an engineer, so I will leave that one to J.
And my air brake and train handleing rule book is in my locker at the yard.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Don't forget about the BP leakage test. If I remember right, 5 psi per min. Or if using an AFM less than 60 CFM. I think. Its too late and I don't feel like reading to find out for sure. How bout it Ed, or J is that correct?
Ken

[edblysard]

Hi Tim,
we have a huge compressor, diesel powered, that has underground pipes to each end of every outbound track. Yes, a air guage is hooked up to one end, 90 psi or better is our rule. You can have no more that a five psi difference between ends. Keep in mind, on a train, with locomotive attached, the locomotives compressor keeps the air up. Yup, they leak, most often from the glad hand gasket. Most of the conductors, and all the carmen carry a spare gasket. But most of the time, if the train passes the test, we dont worry about a small leak, again, the locomotive compressor can overcome any small leak and keep the main line charged. I have had the same gasket ratteling around on my key ring for 2 years now. Keep in mind also, the farther the air has to travel, the more pressure you have to apply to get the correct psi at the rear end, a longer train takes a while to "pump up".
After 100 cars, you will never get the head end to match the rear end exactly, hence the 5 psi allowable difference, and it also allows for the small leaks that you could never find.
And by the way, we are not checking for air leaks so much as we check for operation of the brakes. It isnt the presence of air that works the brakes, its the absence of air that make them function. Imagine a cylinder, with a diaphragm in the center. Both sides of this cylinder have been charged to 90 psi. A piston is hooked to the diaphragm, and extendes out one end. Now remove 10 psi from the piston side. The 90 psi on the other side will force the piston out. Because both side are trying to equal each other, once both sides gets to 80 psi, it will stop, having moved the piston out, and applying force to the brake beams. Through the use of compound levers, the force exerted by the cylinder is made greater, so even though a ten psi reduction sound like a small amount, it translates into a great amount of breaking force.
The emergency brakes work when all the air on the piston side is vented to atmosphere quickly, (in a matter of seconds). Then you have the 90 psi compounded by the brake rigging slam on full force. It is so strong it will lock the wheels on a train, not a great idea. But, if your train comes apart, then all the air on the piston side vents through the air hoses, the flexable part of the train line, and the brakes come on, period. A simple, but very effective way to stop a cut of cars from getting away, or a train losing all of it breaks. Its a type of fail safe system, the train comes apart, it stops, with no action from the crew needed. Say you made a routine stop by removing 10 psi from one side, now the main reservoir on your locomotive holds enough compressed air to recharge the brakes, and equal out both sides. You do so, the brakes release, and on you go, your compressor recharging the main reservoir on the way. Each car also has a reservoir on it, which hold the 90 psi on the break cylinder. Every time you apply the brakes, you have to equalize both sides to release the brakes. Do this too many times though, and you use up all the air in the main reservoir to release the brakes, and the train line reservoirs on the cars are empty, uh oh, no brakes at all.
Please keep in mind this is a simple, very simple explanation of how the brakes work, there are quite a few components not mentioned, metering valves and such, and I am not an engineer, so I am sure some small part or terminology is incorrect, but you get the basic idea. Keeping the train line charged keeps the brakes off, removing air sets them up. By the way, the same princple is used on 18 wheeler air brakes, thats the whoshing sound you here when they step on the brakes, its the air leaving the brake cylinder, not entering it. Ever see a locomotive cut away from the train it was moving? Hear the popping and small explosive sound running the length of the train? Thats all the brakes on the cars going into emergency, same as if it came apart on the move.
Thats what we are making sure works before the train leaves.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, When they test the cars for Air leaks. Do they hook a air compressor up on one end and a air pressure gage on the other? Is there a rule or spec that has to be followed as far as how much can leak out? Is a 100 car train all hooked up pretty much leak proof?
TIM A

[edblysard]

Hi Jenny,
Yes, someone does have to hook up all those hoses. On unit trains, (coal, coke and grain) they often stay coupled up for long periods of time, so its not as big a job as you would think.
Here at the PTRA, and at most major yards, a train is built, (my job) and spotted in a outbound track, which has a air supply hose at each end. Thats what we mean when we say a train is spotted, there is a painted spot on the rails and ties to make it easy to see the "spot" at night. Car men then lace up the hoses, close the anglecock at one end, hook up the air supply, and charge up all the brakes on all the cars. They then ride their scooters, or walk the length of the train and check to see if all the air brakes are released, and no hand brakes are tied down, then bust the air, ie release the air quickly,(simulates an emergency application) and ride it again to make sure all the brakes came on. When its time for the train to leave, all thats required is to couple up the locomotive, charge the brakes back up, get a air pressure reading and EOT test from the carman at the rear, and the train is cleared to leave.
At the initateing terminal, 100% of the brakes have to work. We try to spot outbounds side by side, so the carmen can work both at the same time. In the weeds, when we pull a industry, we have to lace the cars up ourselves. Trust me, carmen earn every dime they get paid, after about ten or twelve cars, your back is killing you.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[wabash1]

true but some of the older cars will and it is becouse if they rip one off and they dont have any then they replace 2 lace them up and go. then they get forgoten. i have laced them up wrong. but after a quick set by the engineer at the time. found the problem, now i dont worry about it that is somebody elses job.

[Jackflash]

J, all of these rapid discharge cars that I've
seen have a glad hand on the door dump line
that wont mate with the brake pipe hose glad hand,
I call them a "left hand" glad hand.
(MR hose wont mate with brake pipe hose) jackflash

[wabash1]

it is a car man job to do thoid in home terminal but out on the road it is the job of the conductor. but these trains are pretty well kept together the only thing is if something goes wrong and you bad order a car you set it out to be picked up later. just remeber that coal cars have 2 differant sets of hoses the brake pipe for (you guessed it) the brakes. but the other hose is for the main resivouir. it is what dumps the cars. get them mixed up and you wont stop.

[JoeKoh]

Hi
Yes someone has to hook up the air hoses eventually but woe to the brakeman or woman if one springs a leak.Thats why they run coal trains in sets and try to keep the cars together.Imagine the fun N&W railroad employees had when they did their 500 car coal train.Ed King are you out there?
have a good day
Joe

[Mookie]

OK - I have my engine pretty well figured out (yeah, right) - I know how to get it moving, what notch to put it in, how to signal a crossing and what the yellow thingie is on the side. Now I need to figure out the rest of the train. Let's do air hoses. I think someone has to hook up all those air hoses by hand (not remote yet). Not even going to hazard a guess as to what you go thru, but bet you will tell me. And on a l-o-n-g coal train - someone has to hook all those up? By themselves? How long does this project take? And they say golf involves a lot of walking! I will sit in the cab and wait for your replies!

Jen