dead man's pedal

[cabforward]

if the engineer needs to leave his seat when the pedal is active, does the second man in the cab have to press the pedal on the fireman's side first so the engineer can stand up without dumping air?

can engineers eat as they are operating the controls on road jobs, or must he 'retire' and let the conductor take their place?

when is the pedal active, anytime the engine moves?
will the engine move from a standing start if the pedal is not pressed down? are any locos exempt from this system?

it seems rcl nullifies this concept in yard work.. a conductor can get hurt the same as anybody else: he/she can fall; have a heart attack, a stroke, slip getting on/off a step, daydream, etc.. 2 people in a cab can back each other up watching for danger inside and outside the cab, but not anymore.. as cars take heavier, more valuable and hazardous loads, it seems there is less concern for crew safety.. also, is r-o-w maintenance what it should be? csx was recently cited for poor track p.m..

if the fra is citing r.rs., is that just for the public's benefit? is there worse going-on that's not being discussed?

in reading history about r.rs., it was common for workers to miss fingers and hands from pulling the pin before auto. couplers.. workers also died in braking cars before air brakes..

back then, it was primitive technology and many workers on-the-job, and many died or were maimed.. nowadays, it's advanced technology (at least in signaling, communications and tracking engine usage), but fewer people, and the danger level is the same or worse..

when i first became interested in r.rs., part of it was being part of a team, where everybody knew the team and how everybody worked.. now, it seems the rco is often alone, and lucky if he is paired with someone he already knows.. and that's scary.. if you don't know your partner, how can you be sure you and he are on the same page when it comes to recognizing danger before it happens, or when it comes to saying 'jump!' when it's too late to stop the danger?

recently, 1 or 2 class 1s awarded safety plaques to men who passed many years w/o an accident.. i wonder if they did much time with rcls? i wonder if the award will be as certain when rcls are in 99% of yard work?

[edblysard]

Hi Cab,
Deadman pedals no longer exsist, except on old, really old F units, and some older diesel units.
What is now in use is called an alerter..A high pitched beeping tone, often accompained by a flashing light, it can only be silenced by either moving a control surface, (throttle, brake lever) or pressing a button on the console. The tone, or beeping, starts out slow, then builds in volume and speed, until a response is received. If nothing is done, it will cut the throttle, and apply a standard brake pipe reduction.
RCLs have a level switch, or mercury switch which is suppost to cut the power and apply the brakes if the belt pack tilts beyond a certain point and stays there. I cant testify to how well that works, as I have been lucky, and we dont have the dangerous things here, yet, so I havent had the "pleasure" of running one.
And your right about the partner issue. I know most of the switchmen I have as helpers, and trust most of them, often with my life. You have to trust them, if not, you will spend the entire day double checking their work, and get nothing done in the process.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Jackflash]

I have to dito Eds response, I havent seen "dead-
mans" pedal in a long time, but I do remember them
The engineer could take his foot off the pedal for
about 10 or 15 seconds before anything happened
The common practice was to wedge it down with a
flag stick or put your grip on it then you could get up and get a drink of water or strech your
legs, some folks just left the stick on it the
whole trip, cant do that with the alerter though
if you hold it in it still goes off, when working
at night I appreciate the alerter, I know I'm not going to fall asleap and kill someone. Trouble
is the alerter is not mandatory on locomotives
some locomotives have em, some dont, some companys
have them on all engines, some companys dont have
them on any engines, and still other companys have
them on some of their engines and dont have them
on other engines, its a real mixed bag. jackflash

[Anonymous]

Ed, the RCL also has an alerter. There is a high pitched tone and a button that has to be pushed periodically to keep the engine from setting the brakes. I am not sure if the inactive box has to pu***he reset or not but it is a possibility. I think it also makes an emergency application instead of a penalty service reduction. There was one incident in the yard with the remote making a shove on a big train with 30 cars of air in the head end. The operator on the locomotive didn't hear the high pitched sound from his box because of the engine noise. The remote put itself in emergency tearing a knuckle out and kicking the remainder of the train (without air)and the operator riding the end toward the lead and a departing train. Lucky for them they stopped a few cars from the end of the track.

[edblysard]

I can imagine it would be hard to hear, I switch on the lead, and am standing near or between locomotives a lot, and often cant hear my radio unless I hold it up to my ear. I would guess if your carrier requires you to have ear plugs it would be even harder to hear the alerter. Wonder if they ever thought of adding a flashing light?
You might see it before you hear a tone.
Lucky crew you have there, bet some one was tieing hand brakes as fast as they could.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[wabash1]

some of this will be a repeat some will be new. as far as dead man pedals there isnt any like ed said its all alerters now, and as jackflash said some carriers have it some dont. the fra says it is not required on class 1 railroads. But i will say it is a great safty device.

As far as eating i can eat when i want i can do my job as engineer while eating and doing 50mph. the only time i will let the condutor run is if i need to go to the toilet and i can do it before we get to another crossing. the conductor is not lic to run and if something happens he will be fired for life ill probley get 30-60 days off with out pay. Also it is call crossing craft and is something the unions frown on.

The csx has been thru the years as far as i can remeber having poor maintanace on thier road nothing new here but they seem to keep them on the rails and haul frieght for the most part.

Ed tells you about working with guys he trust and that he has to he know who he can and can not trust well from up there on the throttle its the same. If i went to work with ed we be slow at first I haft to learn him and he haft to learn me. not everyone gives the same car count as far as distance goes. after i learn what ed is doing it go faster. see there is places where you need to couple cars like you are working with eggs and some you can slam. mix 2 guys on the ground each on with differant ideas and then i must interput each ones way it can get hard.

As far as safty plaques for safe worker yes and my hat is off to those guys. This is one pain i have problems with, The railroads dont care if you come to work everyday do the work not get hurt dont miss days but the same guys who mark off every weekend miss calls get away with things and rule violations like crazy but us guys who work for a living cover the jobs on weekend for the regulars who get sick on friday and recover sunday afternoon get nailed like crazy for silly reasons. all becouse we do our jobs. we should be the ones gettign rewards and or slack cut for these things. If the companies want to keep this way of doing things frieght will move slow and the sttitude will stay the same us against them.

[Anonymous]

The story I got was he was just lucky. He was too shocked to set brakes, he just hung there on the end of the car.

[BRAKIE]

When I worked on the PRR and C&O(Chessie)we had to trust each other our lives depended on it...When you are between the cars connecting air hoses the very last thing you want to hear is slack running out..My biggest worry was a green rookie brakeman that may make a mistake..

Thankfully most crews I worked with was heads up..

[edblysard]

Hi Brakie
Cant speak for other railroads, but here at the PTRA, the FRA gave us a "attaboy" for using the red zone radio call when ever we have to go between the cars, to lace them up or tie a brake down.
When I started, we were taught to either give the engineer the "cutting in the air " hand signal, or tell him we would be "in between" on the radio.
The FRA was down here year before last, and suggested we adopt their "red zone" routine, where the employee going in between cars must notify the engineer with his job number and that he will be "in the red zone" and the engineer must reply with, "port job 252, engineer set and centered", which of course means he has set the independent brake, centered the reverser, and turned the gen field off. With hand signals, we still use the "cutting in the air" signal, and the engineer still gives us a short whistle, but still is required to set and center. Until the engineer hears me say" mobil one(or two) on port job 252 is clear of the red zone" he may not turn the gen field on, move the reverser, or release the brakes. At first, the old heads were reluctent to adopt this new routine, but after a while, it became a habit, and a good one as far as I am concerned. We never gave the new guys a choice, the last two classes we had were taught this from the get go, they dont know any different.
I am with you, the last thing I want to hear when I am in there is the slack run out.
Stay Frosty,
Ed