Trackside Signs

[Anonymous]

CSX has recently placed what looks to be a temporary sign in edge of the ballast here in town. Its about 15in X 15 in, yellow with a orange diagnal stripe running lower left to upper right. I have seen it relocated once. Lacking an employee timetable to look it up, can anyone tell me the meaning?

[Jackflash]

Its a slow order sign, the orange stripe is
reflective tape so you can see it at night

[Anonymous]

Its name is "Advanced Warning Sign". These signs are placed about 2 miles prior to a work limit or slow order. It reminds the engineer of the order ahead. He already has train orders to tell him what to do normally. If we come across one of these signs and have no train orders covering it, we have proceedures to follow. Two miles down the track, you should find another sign; if there is a slow order, a solid yellow sign; if a work authority, a solid red sign. The work authority involves getting permission from the foreman in charge of the work. If you have a scanner, you will hear the approaching engineer calling the "employee in charge" for permission to proceed. The distance involved between the signs is to give the engineer time to brake the train safely.

[csxengineer98]

proceed 2 miles...prepaired to stop..if no red board..or tempory speed sign is incounterd..contact the dispatchor and be govern by his/her instructions... report the advaced warning sign to the dispatchor. and if you have a tempory speed speed sign that is not on your orders...proceed at 10mph..contacting the dispatchor

[wabash1]

this is interesting. if i understand you right the csx still uses train orders? we dont have train orders on the ns anymore.

[Jackflash]

J, probably nobody has what you are thinking
about as "train orders" but all forms of instructions, such as track warrants, track permits, ect, are still "legally" considered
orders for the movement of trains,(train orders)
and some people still use the term train order,
you're right though, I doubt any railroad uses
the old train order forms, probably been 15 years
or more ago to see those gone, have a good one,
jackflash

[Mookie]

Since I come from the era of Train orders, can you explain to me how that is done now? Is it a lot of different forms?

[csxengineer98]

on csx..your train orders are just the dispatchers bullitens... they have information for the sub divisions that your train might be using..such as, tempory speed restrictions, work zones where MOW is working on the track, any infomation about switches being out of service, and any out of the ordinary information like a train carrying a high/wide load. as well as the latest system bullitens and local divison bullitins. it is sent by the dispatchor to the termial where the crew is going on duty that will be running that train...every train gets its own set..and they are addrested to the crew by name... and train ID...
hope this helps

[Jackflash]

Train Orders...Now we call them track warrants
or track permits, the dispatcher gives them
directly to the conductor (or engineer) via radio
instead of going through an operator (remember
when the operator use to hand up "train orders"
using a bamboo hoop while the train was moving
past his station) well now its done using the
radio, without the operator, and the form used
already has most of the restrictions and permissions pre-printed, the conductor just checks
off on the form what the dispatcher says to check
off, and then makes it complete, track warrants
are not used everywhere, mostly in un-signaled
terrotory, I'm sure others can give better description, its late, good-night ,jackflash

[wabash1]

Jenny the dispatcher bullitin is a paper that takes place of the old train orders. the other info you get is from the computor on the ns anyways you get general notice and super atendants notice. these are permant restrictions and rules that are not in rule books or timetables. as far as movement goes if you are in abs teritory or dark teritory you use what is called track warrents these forms are preprinted forms with boxes to check and fill in blanks. they are used for movements on the main track only. track warrents are not used in traffic controlled area as the movments there are controlled by the dispatcher and you run on signal indication. and there is 2 ways to tell if you are watching traffic contolled territory or abs. In abs territory the signals will go to clear after the train gets 2 block signals away in traffic controll the signal will stay red until the dispatcher lines the route again. ( at least this is how ive seen it) the other way is by time table.

[Mookie]

so they still use the time tables, too? I guess they didn't "update" everything!

[Mookie]

yes it does and I thank you.

[Mookie]

which brings up another question: Since this information is transmitted from one individual to another by radio, if there is an error in the translation - well, you probably see where I am going. At least with the "handoff" on the pole, it would be in the handwriting of the person responsible for an error. Especially in "dark" trackage. Or is this just something that doesn't happen all that often.

[wabash1]

jenny it dont happen often when we get a track warrent the dispatcher reads it to us then we repeat it. then he reads it back and gives it a ok time. we read it back with the ok time. then it is a legal warrent. Now lets say the dispatcher was busy and we did not repeat it right and he didnt catch the mistake. in abs territory we know who is where anyways and are talking to them before we get there in dark territory its alittle differant on my atea i knnow who is around but i can see where there could be a problem on some of the bn dark territory of several miles and more trains.

[Anonymous]

j,I was listening to a CP dispatcher giveing a warrant to a train crew. It was a very long one, it even contained the seial no. of a lock on a switch that had to be thrown. This train crew member repeated everything except when it came to the lock. Instead of saying "removing the lock" he said "removing a lock". Because of that the dispatcher made him repeat everything over again. This went on several times with the crewmen alway's messing up one minor word. You can hear frustration in the crew mens voice each time he was asked to repeat it. Finally the dispatcher told him You might as well slow down because according to his line up he (the dispatcher)had all night. The crewman got on the radio, you can hear him take 3 deep breaths and then slowly repeated everything perfectly. When the dispatcher keyed up you could hear clapping in the back ground.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Where i am located, in Montreal,The Canadian Pacific Railway will use Warrants all summer until september, due to the changing of the ties, It averages about every second tie being replaced. Track warrants in our area consist of a flag Green/Yellow and a reflector at the top of the pole matching the flag colour. Yellow indicates a reduce speed order, (35 MPH) and a green Reflector for the green flag, meaning proceed at normal speed. It's generally frowned upon to pass a green flag faster then 55 MPH. Hope this hgives you an idea about how it is up here, and sorry if my english has gramatical/spelling errors, being from Montreal, Quebec (Canada) English is not my first language.
Cheers, Kev.

[csxengineer98]

jenny...this orignal posting about the track side signes was for CSX... we dont use track warrents we use dispatchers bullitens..and so on.. in dark territory...DTC on CSX we use block forms... the blocks are a definded limets set in stone and can be found in the time table on CSX... the dispatcher will give a train permistion to occupie main track... by telling the crew they have so many blocks... the blocks are an absolute, meaning a only one train can be in that block at a time... a occupied block..meaning that thier is a postibilty of a train ahead of you going in the same direction or comeing towards you, a clear block..meaning that you may have a train comeing behind you...and a proceed block..which is a DTC block..and signals... the dispatcher will give a a direction..and if you are releaved of rear end flag protection...the territory i run under..we use DTC blocks every day.. when you get a DCT block..you have to repeat eveything back to the distpatcher word for word...and to go along with this...on the train messages you get a block form for just such a use...
each rail road dose things differntly...and from what i have been reading and finding out...the western rail roads are very differnt in thier opporating practices comparied to CSX... NS has a simmiler system to CSX when it comes to train messages....
so dont read to much into it about the track warrntes and what not..if you want to know what CSX signes mean....we have our own way of doing things...
you westcoasters think you know it all...lol

[Mookie]

Funny! But possibly a safetly lesson learned.

[Mookie]

I live right square in the middle of the nation. The weather channel calls us the Great Plains - we are actually the Mid-West. Ohio is not the mid-west in my thinking. California is the west or left coast. We are a long ways from California! Having said that - I am in the heart of BNSF country and I do know they do things different from the rest of the country, but they do use blocks and they do have dark trackage (my terminology may not be exact, but you get the point.) But at least it gives me an overall idea of how trains are moved in general. And that is what I am looking for.

Thank you

:)

Jen

[JoeKoh]

Hi jen
whatever works for you.thats what makes this hobby great.have a good day.
Joe

[Anonymous]

Kev, Thanks for the info. And your spelling is better than most of the American's on this sight.
Thank's again
TIM A

[Anonymous]

We Do

[Mookie]

Sounds like Warrants would be akin to a Warning.
Something special going on at the time?

Your English is a lot better than my French!

Jen

[Mookie]

Isn't this a great way to spend a little free time!

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

What a day for railroading.. Red after red Signal.. An hour long journey took 3 hours with all the slow orders and red signals.. we were lucky if we got up to 25 MPH. ( CP is not only changing every single railroad tie, they have taken up construction on the bridge. whitch has closed down one out of the 2 tracks. therfore its mostly stoping and waitng for this train to pass, moving on to a siding and waiting for a train to pass. Pure madness, The slow orders seem to have doubled over night. Where i got to school, just outside there are four tracks, 2 cn 2 cp. one each way and people have counted 200+ trains on the two tracks over a 24 hour period.. its busy out there!
Cheers, Kev.

[Mookie]

sounds like a train-watchers paradise!

[wabash1]

we have a few dispatchers just like that to. and they want (and it is required) to read everything back exactly the way it was given, but if he told me he had all night i would tell him i am here for 12 hours and i dont care what happens after that. we get a understanding right away.

[Anonymous]

It sure is.. it's an amzing spot.. however the Train selection unfortunately is the same Day in and out. a few days ago i saw a box car with its original 1956 painting on it it said "Canadian Pacific Railway" written in cursive.. i hope the picture turnes out.. that was the sight of the week.