Metra 403 & 404

[eolafan]

Just thought you folks would like to know that Metra units 403 and 404 (the new units from the "old" MK) have been in the Hill Yard of BNSF since Friday p.m. Unit 403 arrived on a Metra westbound train behind an F40 on Friday night at about 6:50 p.m., not sure about arrival of 404, but both are trailing units behind F40's. Several of us went down to Hill Yard to view and photograph them (THEY LOOK GREAT) and found they were not running (although the F40's coupled to them were????). A number of other folks were there "shooting" these units also, so the word is definetly out. Two private security guards came over and asked if we were BNSF employees, and when we honestly answered no they asked us to leave as they had orders to report anybody photographing BNSF property or equipment to the Aurora police dept. (they even showed me their written orders)! They were very nice and we moved on to photograph the Q caboose near the Aurora transportation center (Metra ticket office). This static display is very well positioned but I must say that the Q decal applied to the one side of the hack car was done very poorly with very many and very large wrinkles and bubbles in it. The other side (facing the tracks) does not have a decal on it at all. All in all, though, a very nice addition to the station grounds. Wonder if the new Metra units will be traveling the BNSF route on a regular basis or are they simply here for a while to let crews become aquainted and to break them in for some mileage runs (no doubt as trailing units to guard against early failures).

[cabforward]

i would ask the r.r.--in person would be nice or by mail if not-- where might a fan watch trains w/o interruption by a guard.. also, how far must one stand from a property line to avoid questioning.. if a location could be recommended for observation, maybe the guards could provide the info to the fans.. if the guards showed the fans an order instructing guards to usher fans away from a line-of-sight platform, maybe the fans could ask to talk to the one who signed the letter..

rule #1 is: the more difficult a person in charge makes it for someone to do what they want, the harder that person will work to do what they want anyway.. at some point, the person being denied the thing they want will become aggravated about being denied what they want and will begin taking liberties with a r.rs.'s rights to limit access to private property..

this means the more you deny someone something they want, the more they want it.. the more it is denied them, the more brazen they will become in taking steps to get it anyway, up to breaking the law.. in these circumstances, trespassing to get a better look at trains, or becoming confrontative when asked to explain themselves..

im not suggesting the people in this example are like that.. im suggesting that r.rs. could be flexible with flexible people who just want to watch and photograph the action..

if the r.r. provides letters to guards to show fans how serious the r.r. is about by-standers, maybe the r.r. could also give fans something to show the guards the absence of an ulterior motive in looking at train movements.. maybe the guards could hand-out cards to fans who appear sincere in their activity and cooperative in attitude.. the cards would then be shown upon being interviewed by security.. of course, any terrorist could behave themselves and get a 'courtesy card', but there has to be some exchang between the r.r. and the fan community that indicates some trust and credit for being good citizens, corporate and private.. we need to start recognizing each other as 'o.k. to pass', if not by face or name, then by some system of card, or hand-stamp, etc..

r.rs. have never caught-on that public relations is a 2-way street.. it's always been, 'look at our boxcars, see the cute slogan'; read the sign, it says, 'keep off'.. this is 1-way only, they give us the message, we have no input.. this example becomes more pronounced in times of concern about domestic terrorism.. r.rs., concerned only about $$, give no more attention to this issue than brushing awy flies at a picnic..

they could certainly assign someone to coordinate programs where citizens, who are railfans or not, could enlist as 'observers' at train-watching spots..

the card-carrying 'observers' would not be viewed as suspicious persons.. they would be, in fact, looking for suspicious persons, as do r.r. security and the police.. they do this by apearing at train-watching spots and thmselves noting people who appear.. they would not report every person they saw train-watching, every time.. they would report people they saw who were there when something tragic happened on r.r. property.. they would report who & what they saw when the police went to the media and asked for help in placing suspicious persons at the scene within a certain time frame.. just as on america's most wanted, the public is asked, 'have yu seen this man'?.. or, did you see anyone in the area last nite? please tell us..

r.rs. are already involved in several programs as, 'opn. lifesaver'.. it's time they opened a program as, 'opn. friend-maker'.. it's time they dropped the 'anal retention' and used some 'relation retention' thinking..

[Anonymous]

I agree with most all of your points here. Unfortunately, all I can say is, dream on. The big railroads are not going to spend the time or resources to sort out the "railfans" from the "vandals". The blanket policy will now, and forever be, "No Tresspassing" period! The best bet is to find a place where you can watch trains from non-railroad property. To do otherwise, will just invite problems. Here in Michigan, I know of a perfect spot to watch CN/GTW hot action all hours of the day, from a car-wash lot. Unless we have a terrorist alert on car washes sometime soon, I think I'll be O.K.
Todd C.

[zardoz]

I also agree with the above. My suggestion is perhaps we could have Forum spot dedicated to any railfans that have been hassled by these "rent-a-cops" while on public property. Perhaps if we compile a sufficient list, a 'class action' suit could be brought against those that continue to trample our freedoms in the name of "Security".

I mean, come on...is a terrorist going to go out in full view during the day to photograph or watch trains?? I think not!! A terrorist would use night-vision equipment, or rent a plane, or even hire out in order to get information.

This harrassment is just BS, and we should not put up with it! Any lawyers out there interested?

Of course, if you are on railroad property, that is a different matter altogether. To tresspass these days is to invite arrest.

[Mookie]

James - can you briefly explain to me Metra 403 & 404. I assume they are older engines and of the Amtrak type. And why would they travel the BNSF route regularly - will they be used in a museum setting?

I know trains has had articles on Metra but since I never see any, it is hard to remember all the articles.

Thanx

Jen

[CShaveRR]

No, Jen, they're brand-new units from Motive Power Industries. As James says, they look sharp, though I've heard mixed reports about their performance. There will evetually be 27 of them, starting with 400 (401 and 402 are already in Chicago, too).

Page 24 of February Trains had an artist's rendering of the locomptoive, and page 23 of the April issue has a photo of the 402.

They're supposed to be more fuel-efficient, better at acceleration, and on and on. I know they're a lot heavier than an F40, but that a test run had one go through a scheduled trip in nine minutes less time than an F40.

(Another reason to visit Chicago?)

[Mookie]

Carl, seems like I remember seeing the articles, but since I can never seem to get out of NE, I don't follow them that closely.

How will they be use? Will they be around the Chicago area, like a rapid transit system? On the El (do you still have that?)

Jen

[eolafan]

Jen, these new Metra diesels will be primarily used on the Milwaukee West line from Chicago to Elgin, IL (some talk in recent past about extending that line past Elgin, but nothing yet). They are being purchased to enable Metra to retire the older F40C units purchased in the 1970's (they are very much like the old Amtrak SDP40F units but with constant speed prime movers to power the HEP system and also they have stainless steel non-functional side panels for looks...to mimick the stainless grills on the really old E and F units that were the original diesels on this line). Metra operates numerous diesel and electric lines from downtown Chicago, the map of which resembles spokes on a wheel with Chicago being the "hub". Yes, we still have the CTA system (or El...Elevated) running around the Chicago Loop and down the Dan Ryan Expressway and out the Kennedy Expressway to O'Hare and also a line out to Midway Airport (roughly parralells I55 Stevenson Expressway). Metra runs mostly diesel trains (the old Illinois Central electrics are almost the only exception these days) and they run many many trains (several hundred a day I suspect about now). Hope this helps. Jim

[CShaveRR]

Jen, you can get anything you'd possibly want to know about Metra's operations at www.metrarail.com.
The latest issue of their commuter newspaper has more pictures of the new equipment, and other areas have maps, schedules, and other goodies.

The CTA is still pretty extensive (a few more routes than James mentioned), but they only use third-rail electric transit cars. It's all called the "L" in the vernacular, though much of the newer stuff in the highway medians is at ground level, and some routes in the Loop are underground. The newest line, out to Midway Airport, is a must for railfans.

[Mookie]

Jim - appreciate the info. I really do have to get out more. I have actually traveled to Elgin on the train, then on to Wisconsin. Many years ago. I look over the articles in the trains, but can't relate to them as well, since we never see anything like that back here. So this helps a lot

Thanx

Jen

[Mookie]

Carl - I will go look up the website.

Thanx

Jen

[alangj]

James, et. al.,

Spotted the new "410" unit double-headed behind one of Metra's original-series F40PH's (#120?)
Thursday morning on an inbound ex-CNW-line train at the 25th Avenue station in Franklin Park (that's about a mile east of Bensenville Yard.) The new MPI units seem to be noticibly longer than the F40PH's, if not much taller. It sounded a little different, too, at least while the train was stopped there for boarding. It didn't sound like it was idling, but it certainly didn't have the "full-throttle" roaring sound of the leading F40PH.

Coincidently, the morning before, at the same location and nearly the same time, I saw an inbound train with TWO of the old F40C's (601 & 605, I think) that are slated to be replaced by the new MPI's. An interesting contrast, to say the least.

Alan
Evergreen Park, IL

[eolafan]

Alan, I saw one of the new units all by itself (couldn't see the unit number though) heading a westsbound express towards Aurora going through Naperville last night at about 7 pm. It looked really great and sounded more like an old and normally aspirated EMD E unit than one of the newer F40 units. Hope to see more of these units in the future. Jim

[alangj]

James,

Good call on the description of the sound. The one I saw/heard in Franklin Park had a much deeper-sounding "rumble" than the F40's do. At the time, I thought that it might not have been cranking out full power for the HEP (leaving that to the F40 attached directly to the bi-levels, but based on your description, that might be its "native" sound. Earlier this week, I spotted one of them (from a distance) heading a westbound BNSF-line train through Brookfield at about 7:15AM heading toward the LaGrange stop - too far away to see any detail other than that it was an MPI, not an F40.

Alan

[Anonymous]

Jen,Ed,Kev,Tim, anybody?
did you hear something rattling in the post above mine??????????
marty

[Anonymous]

besides, i was told that cabforwards were a lot quieter because they sat ahead of all the HOT AIR.
marty

[eolafan]

Alan, thanks. Saw 404 again last night all by itself on a train through Eola at about 6:15 pm, and boy did it sound good...looked good too. Hope some of them stay around on the BNSF line permanently. Jim

[eolafan]

Just a note that 404 is still on the BNSF line and I saw her eastbound at about 3pm this afternoon with a nine car Metra train bound for the city and Taste of Chicago festival. I also just read in TRAINS that some of these units will be on BNSF permanently as they are 30,000 pounds too heavy for the originally intended UP lines...this is great news as the new units are very appealing to look at and are a refreshing change to the "old" F40's (I am sure we will miss the F40's some day, so I say that with tongue firmly implanted in cheek).