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Subway sandwiches on Amtrak, pressurized airplanes and Cub Scouts

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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:49 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Say Tom......

For our departed friend from Idaho.....couldn't we make a new scout rank....the coveted SABeloh?

Dan


What's the Boy Scout Headquarters address?
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Posted by dharmon on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:17 PM
Say Tom......

For our departed friend from Idaho.....couldn't we make a new scout rank....the coveted SABeloh?

Dan
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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:13 PM
Well, whoever changed the title of the post, I think you just took away all the people's qualifications for the "Post Hijacking" merit badge.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 9, 2005 4:31 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Dan - since we are hijacking topics - is San Diego still a thrill to fly into? Over the parking garage?

Moo


Yeah baby! Nothing like peeping into the condo bedroom windows on final.......The big thing now is that the county wants the Marines to give up Miramar or allow it for joint civil / military use.....which doesn't work real well. What they proponents won't say is that ..yeah they want the airport, but they really want the upteen thousand acres of undeveloped government property surrounding it....which gives the locals an unrealistic sense of how quiet it is.....to exploit. It's the California way...I'm too stupid to do it right from the beginning..so I'm going to take what someone else has.

I'm beginning to feel a little pressurization in my caboose from the Subway sandwich I just ate....I may need to step outside before Weeblow

Dan


Brutha, Ahhh feeel YO pain...

LC
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Posted by dharmon on Friday, December 9, 2005 12:53 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Dan - since we are hijacking topics - is San Diego still a thrill to fly into? Over the parking garage?

Moo


Yeah baby! Nothing like peeping into the condo bedroom windows on final.......The big thing now is that the county wants the Marines to give up Miramar or allow it for joint civil / military use.....which doesn't work real well. What they proponents won't say is that ..yeah they want the airport, but they really want the upteen thousand acres of undeveloped government property surrounding it....which gives the locals an unrealistic sense of how quiet it is.....to exploit. It's the California way...I'm too stupid to do it right from the beginning..so I'm going to take what someone else has.

I'm beginning to feel a little pressurization in my caboose from the Subway sandwich I just ate....I may need to step outside before Weeblow

Dan
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Posted by Mookie on Friday, December 9, 2005 12:44 PM
Dan - since we are hijacking topics - is San Diego still a thrill to fly into? Over the parking garage?

Moo

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:37 AM
Could you pressurize a plane?
Could you pressurize a train?
Have you pressurized my brain?
Or stress relieved this sad refrain?

Subway food just isn't safe.
It makes the union collar chafe.
You need us, 'case the terrorists strafe
and with no job, a homeless waif.

If they serve you at your seat,
They won't ask you "white or wheat"
and they'll have to store it in the heat.
'Coz if it's frozen, that ain't sweet.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:33 AM
Now THAT'S how to hijack a post.
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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:10 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

So, does this thread name change indicate that the Cub Scouts will now be serving the Subway sandwiches on Amtrak???

Perhaps we can pressurize a few planes with all this hot air??

How 'bout that Southwest crash at Midway? Ouch. Some bad driving there....

LC


I think it's the Cub Scouts that are pressurized, but I'm no longer sure.

I think that SW flight missed the arresting wire.

Midway is a scary place to fly in and out of in good weather. It's shoehorned into a residential area - a big square with the runways on the diagonals. I think it was built for DC3s with runways just barely long enough for small jets. A few more feet an the plane might have been in someone's living room (non pressurized, of course)

Now, did you know that there were some early attempts to propel subway cars using air pressure (pneumatic tubes)?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by jeaton on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:08 AM
BEERGIEEEE!!! NOW HARMON IS CHANNELING SEUSS!!!

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Or will the cub scouts be subsidizing pressurized Subway sandwiches on Amtrak?[:D]



How about if the Cub Scouts sell the Subway sandwiches on the trains...[:D]

LarryWhistling
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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 11:04 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)


And again you didn't read the question. I hope by the time you're old enough to take your SAT's you'll acquire that skill or the only career phrase you'll need is "Ya want fries with that?"

I never said they weren't pressurized, I said it WASN'T NECESSARY to pressurize or heat them.

The question was (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y) "What is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure that keep bringing up?" A pressure bulkhead, be it the floor or the fuselage walls, will have to hold back the pressure differential, no matter what the number is you wi***o assign to it.

It's like me asking "What's two plus two?" and you keep answering "fish."


The 1.4M# figure is the load you'd have to design the floor for if you want it to be a pressurized bulkhead.

There are NO commercial passenger airliners that have their floor as a pressurized bulkhead.

If there are no planes with floor that can act as a pressurized bulkhead, then it is ALWAYS necessary to pressurize the cargo area.

You COULD build a car with 7 wheels, too, but why would you?


So back to the original question, why is the 1.4 million pound figure appliede to the floor when it's a pressurized bulkhead, and not applied to the fuselage walls when they are the pressurized bulkhead.

The "necessity" I'm refering to is based on the contents of the compartment. Cargo doesn't need heat or pressurization any more than most boxcars or enclosed trailers need it. When you're hauling passengers, the need changes.


You DO have a large load on all the pressurized fuselage surfaces. The direction in which those forces act and how the forces are carried in the structure are the key. A cylinder is a very efficient design to pressurize. A rectangle is not. It's why all pressure vessels are cylindrical or spherical. It's not that they COULDN'T be other shapes. It's just the cost and structural complexity aren't justified.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by chad thomas on Friday, December 9, 2005 10:41 AM
Or will the cub scouts be subsidizing pressurized Subway sandwiches on Amtrak?[:D]

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 9, 2005 10:26 AM
So, does this thread name change indicate that the Cub Scouts will now be serving the Subway sandwiches on Amtrak???

Perhaps we can pressurize a few planes with all this hot air??

How 'bout that Southwest crash at Midway? Ouch. Some bad driving there....

LC
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Posted by dharmon on Friday, December 9, 2005 10:23 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)


And again you didn't read the question. I hope by the time you're old enough to take your SAT's you'll acquire that skill or the only career phrase you'll need is "Ya want fries with that?"

I never said they weren't pressurized, I said it WASN'T NECESSARY to pressurize or heat them.

The question was (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y) "What is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure that keep bringing up?" A pressure bulkhead, be it the floor or the fuselage walls, will have to hold back the pressure differential, no matter what the number is you wi***o assign to it.

It's like me asking "What's two plus two?" and you keep answering "fish."


The 1.4M# figure is the load you'd have to design the floor for if you want it to be a pressurized bulkhead.

There are NO commercial passenger airliners that have their floor as a pressurized bulkhead.

If there are no planes with floor that can act as a pressurized bulkhead, then it is ALWAYS necessary to pressurize the cargo area.

You COULD build a car with 7 wheels, too, but why would you?


So back to the original question, why is the 1.4 million pound figure appliede to the floor when it's a pressurized bulkhead, and not applied to the fuselage walls when they are the pressurized bulkhead.

The "necessity" I'm refering to is based on the contents of the compartment. Cargo doesn't need heat or pressurization any more than most boxcars or enclosed trailers need it. When you're hauling passengers, the need changes.



Not really. What's the most a train or truck is going to see...sea level to maybe 6000 ft. Goods packaged under pressure..for example...air tight bags, plastic bottles, etc...will expand or contract with the altitude changes. I have seen potato chip bags burst at 6000' of cabin altitude. Add a rapid 60 degree temperature change (if it's not heated either), and we get more damage. Particularly liquids. Unless all you are hauling is books..you are going to have unhappy customers. And coming back down is equally destructive.....had a rapid loss of cabin pressuriztion at around FL180 in a descent. Never knew I had an abcess under a filling until in blew the filling and top of tooth off about two seconds after the pressure dipped.

Dan

So...I can not eat a Subway sandwich on a train,
and on Tom's cold airline I would refrain,
but not in Spain,
nor in the rain,
or to add to Jay's pain....
unless a merit badge I could attain.

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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, December 9, 2005 10:13 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

What I still don't understand is why anyone would ever name a level of Boy Scouting anything remotely sounding like "We Blow"???

Is there even a merit badge involving RRs anymore?

LC


Webelo (sp?) is a name for a sort of post-Cub Scout, pre-Boy Scout, a contraction of the words "We belong."

Scouting does still have a Railroading merit badge. Steamtown runs a program to qualify Scouts for it. Check with a local RR club or museum to see if they offer a similar program.


My Webelos book says "WE'll BE LOyal Scouts". It's the last 1-1/2 years of Cub Scouting. My 5th grader "graduates" this January - I can finally stop being a Den Mother!


I was doing that from memory. It's been a LOOONNNGGG time since my son was that age (he's 28 now).
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by TomDiehl on Friday, December 9, 2005 10:09 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)


And again you didn't read the question. I hope by the time you're old enough to take your SAT's you'll acquire that skill or the only career phrase you'll need is "Ya want fries with that?"

I never said they weren't pressurized, I said it WASN'T NECESSARY to pressurize or heat them.

The question was (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y) "What is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure that keep bringing up?" A pressure bulkhead, be it the floor or the fuselage walls, will have to hold back the pressure differential, no matter what the number is you wi***o assign to it.

It's like me asking "What's two plus two?" and you keep answering "fish."


The 1.4M# figure is the load you'd have to design the floor for if you want it to be a pressurized bulkhead.

There are NO commercial passenger airliners that have their floor as a pressurized bulkhead.

If there are no planes with floor that can act as a pressurized bulkhead, then it is ALWAYS necessary to pressurize the cargo area.

You COULD build a car with 7 wheels, too, but why would you?


So back to the original question, why is the 1.4 million pound figure appliede to the floor when it's a pressurized bulkhead, and not applied to the fuselage walls when they are the pressurized bulkhead.

The "necessity" I'm refering to is based on the contents of the compartment. Cargo doesn't need heat or pressurization any more than most boxcars or enclosed trailers need it. When you're hauling passengers, the need changes.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 8:37 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

What I still don't understand is why anyone would ever name a level of Boy Scouting anything remotely sounding like "We Blow"???

Is there even a merit badge involving RRs anymore?

LC


Webelo (sp?) is a name for a sort of post-Cub Scout, pre-Boy Scout, a contraction of the words "We belong."

Scouting does still have a Railroading merit badge. Steamtown runs a program to qualify Scouts for it. Check with a local RR club or museum to see if they offer a similar program.


My Webelos book says "WE'll BE LOyal Scouts". It's the last 1-1/2 years of Cub Scouting. My 5th grader "graduates" this January - I can finally stop being a Den Mother!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 8:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)


And again you didn't read the question. I hope by the time you're old enough to take your SAT's you'll acquire that skill or the only career phrase you'll need is "Ya want fries with that?"

I never said they weren't pressurized, I said it WASN'T NECESSARY to pressurize or heat them.

The question was (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y) "What is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure that keep bringing up?" A pressure bulkhead, be it the floor or the fuselage walls, will have to hold back the pressure differential, no matter what the number is you wi***o assign to it.

It's like me asking "What's two plus two?" and you keep answering "fish."


The 1.4M# figure is the load you'd have to design the floor for if you want it to be a pressurized bulkhead.

There are NO commercial passenger airliners that have their floor as a pressurized bulkhead.

If there are no planes with floor that can act as a pressurized bulkhead, then it is ALWAYS necessary to pressurize the cargo area.

You COULD build a car with 7 wheels, too, but why would you?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, December 9, 2005 8:14 AM
How 'bout those Phillies!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, December 8, 2005 9:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Speaking of Badges-and Awards. I have decided to ask Bergie to establish a Trains.com "Forum Topic Hijacking Award".

Two members immediately come to mind as the first recipients.

Jay


Only TWO?????
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Posted by jeaton on Thursday, December 8, 2005 7:21 PM
Speaking of Badges-and Awards. I have decided to ask Bergie to establish a Trains.com "Forum Topic Hijacking Award".

Two members immediately come to mind as the first recipients.

Jay

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 6:04 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

What I still don't understand is why anyone would ever name a level of Boy Scouting anything remotely sounding like "We Blow"???

Is there even a merit badge involving RRs anymore?

LC


Webelo (sp?) is a name for a sort of post-Cub Scout, pre-Boy Scout, a contraction of the words "We belong."

Scouting does still have a Railroading merit badge. Steamtown runs a program to qualify Scouts for it. Check with a local RR club or museum to see if they offer a similar program.


Tom -

Thanks. Although its been a few decades I understand what a Webelos scout is. I even was one a long time ago... I still think it is a lousy name.

As for the Merit badge, it's good to know they still offer it.

LC
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, December 8, 2005 4:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

What I still don't understand is why anyone would ever name a level of Boy Scouting anything remotely sounding like "We Blow"???

Is there even a merit badge involving RRs anymore?

LC


Webelo (sp?) is a name for a sort of post-Cub Scout, pre-Boy Scout, a contraction of the words "We belong."

Scouting does still have a Railroading merit badge. Steamtown runs a program to qualify Scouts for it. Check with a local RR club or museum to see if they offer a similar program.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 4:34 PM
So what is is? Are aircraft cargo holds pressurized or not? Heated or not? If they are not and there is a great possibility that my wifes little "kick dog," will pari***hen count me in! I want to know which airline has the worst record of live freight arriving safely so I can purchase a ticket and send the peeing, biting, barking little sucker on a one way trip to his little maker. Bye Bye Bennie! Hehehehe
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 8, 2005 4:15 PM
What I still don't understand is why anyone would ever name a level of Boy Scouting anything remotely sounding like "We Blow"???

Is there even a merit badge involving RRs anymore?

LC
  • Member since
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  • From: Poconos, PA
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, December 8, 2005 3:53 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)


And again you didn't read the question. I hope by the time you're old enough to take your SAT's you'll acquire that skill or the only career phrase you'll need is "Ya want fries with that?"

I never said they weren't pressurized, I said it WASN'T NECESSARY to pressurize or heat them.

The question was (now read this S-L-O-W-L-Y) "What is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure that keep bringing up?" A pressure bulkhead, be it the floor or the fuselage walls, will have to hold back the pressure differential, no matter what the number is you wi***o assign to it.

It's like me asking "What's two plus two?" and you keep answering "fish."
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, December 8, 2005 2:55 PM
OK, I'll admit a cheap shot with the Cub Scout stuff!

I'm not the only one who told you that passenger airliners are completely pressurized. You don't believe them either?

Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to argue with a fence post! (another cheap shot, I suppose, but at whom?)

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, December 8, 2005 2:45 PM
Sorry, but juvenile name calling and other insults lead me to believe that I'm reading a large measure of the BS factor rather than pertinent facts and figures.

Taking math or physics in school was NOT the question, hence my statement that you can't read. I'm not disputing your mathmatics. The question WAS "what is the significance of the 1.4 million pound figure?" The pressure bulkhead, be it the fuselage or the floor, has to hold back 10 PSI of pressure differential between the inner and outer surfaces. Pulling a formula out of a physics book that yields a huge number might impress some, but I've seen the federal deficit, so "not impressed."

The most juvenile remarks have been yours. I guess an intellegent, mature question is beyond your grasp.
Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown

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