no complaints? no way!

[cabforward]

some have voiced the opinion that everybody's job is tough.. pay too low, hours too long, boss is a jerk, blah-blah.. so please don't complain, at least you have a job, at least you work for the r.r., etc.. this is beans and more beans!

when did someone take away our right to gripe? who says no gripes allowed on this forum? how do some people figure to limit expression here only to certain topics?
myself, i am happy to hear anything one might say or ask about r.r.-ing.. doesn't matter to me.. im working for minimum wage and there are many things i don't like about my life, so what? i don't begrudge anyone their gripes.. if they want to lay it out here in 25 words or less, or 2,500 words or more..

just follow the forum rules and talk about r.r.-ing, i'm cool with that.. i can't follow why people have to criticize because someone wants to air their gripes about their job or the impact the job has on their home life, finances, etc..

if they feel o.k. about doing laundry in public, so what? we're all anonymous here, unless we don't want to be.. if it's important to someone to talk about it here, then it's important for them to be heard and regarded with respect..

you don't have to agree.. you can give your story and contradict theirs at every step, no problem, but noone has the right to say, 'aw, forget it, you're not so bad off, there's people who are broke and even dead; grin and bear it'.. that is a cheap shot and noone has the right to say it, nor should anyone have to accept it..

i want the right to express my opinions here; to read other opinions that concur and contradict my own.. i really want to be free of ambushers that have nothing better to say than, 'aw, quitcherbitchin', everybody's got a gripe, get over it!'

forums are to compliment & criticize & inform & exchange info & bring us updates on what is happening in our favorite industry and pastime, & let our aggravation show itself.. better here than the hi-way!

is this wrong?

[edblysard]

Here here...
that constitution does serve a purpose dons't it?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[JoeKoh]

Dear Ed
isn't railroading the toughest job you'll ever love?
joe

[cabforward]

oh, wow! i thought it was the peace corps!!

r.r.ing is the toughest job i ever had the biggest wrong idea about..

[Anonymous]

No offense intended, but you know the old saying. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I am a Teamster myself, so I realize the struggle between labor and management to gain a fair workplace. It seems that organized labor has been getting the shaft for the past 20 years or more. What can we do? Unfortunatly, not much.....
The CEO's and stockholders control the destiny of ALL americans. This extends WAY beyond just the organized crafts too. It affects EVERYBODY! I used to be a staunch democrat until Clinton passed that *%@*^( NAFTA! Say goodbye to "Blue-Collar America", Soon the only thing american made you can find will be the cheeseburger at your local fast-food chain.
Chapter two... What happens after the war in Iraq is done? I'm sure that we will be sending Billions, and Billions of U.S. Dollars into that country to "Rebuild" the Iraq "government".
O.K. so then, we are spending MORE money over there to fix what THEY should have fixed 20 years ago, and meanwhile, I'll bet we will still be paying over 2 bucks a gallon for gas.
Ten, or fifteen years from now, with our dollars, the country of Iraq will become the leader in exported manufactured goods. Don't believe me?, just look at history. look at the Pacific rim countries we helped out after WW-2. How many items in YOUR household were produced in the USA? Probably not many..... Tell me if I'm wrong, but I bet 95% of your electrical appliances came from either Korea, Japan, or China. Oh, yea, don't forget NAFTA, the rest are from Mexico.
Sad times indeed for the United States. It's a real shame.

[cabforward]

maybe i'm missing your point.. you say, 'if you can't stand the heat..' then you give us several paragraphs about how tough it is for truckers.. o.k., what's the message, 'get over it', or 'my story is..'?

this forum is for those who want to tell their story, not for those who say, 'get over it'.. but don't let me pressure you..

[edblysard]

Never though I would get hooked this deep, or this long...
Ed

[cabforward]

maybe you didn't think about the bait they might use..

[Mookie]

I think I am lost.

I can/can't complain.

I can/can't give out any personal information.

I can/can't say anything political.

I can/can't talk about anything except railroad
discussions.

Does this cover it?

Sometimes the best reading is the ranting and/or the personal items.

Just my opinion that I can/can't express.

Jen

[Anonymous]

I'd been on the RR about 2 years; an old trainman told me, "It seems like maybe 8 or 9 years, but not 35!" Well now, I've been there 33 years. That old man was right. As for complaints, if the US outlaws complainers, the re-education camps will be full of railroaders. If you're ever around a bunch of railroaders and they AREN'T muttering, there's something very wrong. You should leave the room right away... skeets

[Anonymous]

I should add one exception to the earlier post. Railroaders like to complain, but they also love to tell stories. I remember stories old men told me years ago (who knows if any are true; it really doesn't matter) where everyone involved is long dead. The stories are very funny, so I still tell them. I just need to remember not to do any "re-runs". Although some tales are funny no matter how many times they're told. skeets

[Anonymous]

Well I have a complaint To you railroaders!!! Why don't the Engineers wave back to me and my Boy's (ages 5 and 6) when we wave at them when they go by??? We stand a safe distance back,we normaly sit in the back of the pick-up truck in a parking lot. The boy's get a big thrill when a engineer waves back. When you were at that age was it not a big thrill for you? When they do not wave back I tell the boy's that running a big train is a big responsiblity and the Engineer was probably busy. (Though most just look at them and do not wave back.) So please, when you see a small Child waveing to you, please wave back and give them that thrill.
TIM ARGUBRIGHT
Buffalo Grove Ill.

[cabforward]

dear contributor:

you can comment and complain about anything you want on this forum and on this topic.. noone is holding your arms back and noone is suggesting that you 'spin' your expressive-self one way or the other..

but it would seem (to me) that some guidelines might help you to stay 'on track' with the subject matter which is promoted here, namely railroading, transit, transportation, etc..

you may or may not complain, it's your call..my feeling is, don't complain against what others wi***o gripe about.. if someone wants to gripe about r.r. working conditions, it isn't fair to say, 'shut up, you're working aint'cha? you're getting paid!' forums promote speech; noone should tell another to just stuff it, it could be worse.. if we all stuffed it, why would there be forums?

none said you cant release your personals; i said we are anonymous to start with; we can speak our minds here and not be concerned with being found out at work..if you want the world to know your apt. #, go ahead!

political is good, very good.. can you attach it to a r.r. issue? ex: amtrak is going down the drain because bush doesn't care for r.rs.. o.k., that's political, and it's about r.rs.. but to say, bush is a jerk and made war against iraq because he wants re-election in '04.. good topic, but it doesn't work here.. why? because there is no 'r.r.' in it, get it?

no talking here except r.r. discussions.. my vote is yes, no talking here except on r.r. topics.. why? well, why would anyone come here to talk about gun laws, abortion, speed traps on the interstate or qualifying for a black belt in karate? this is where i really others' need help.. isn't there enough room on the 'net for forums on those topics? what if ten people showed up tomorrow and started arguing about why kiddie porn should be legalized?? would that motivate you to say something to the writers and the forum owners? i say, if you want to run-on about home recipes, beekeeping or doomsday prophecies, find a forum or start one of your own.. this forum is about r.rs.; it is supported by a r.r. magazine; this forum has been set-up for some years; why do people want to login here and put down 300 words about how the president is fixing the price of gas by fighting a war in iraq? jeez, i do not care about iraq, the price of gas or whatever bush is doing about it, or how much $$ he is getting under the table for it.. there's forums to argue that and hundreds of people to argue with.. why sit at this table to make your opinions known?
do railroaders care about something other than r.rs.? i would hope so, they're human aren't they? but there are topics and places for discussing them.. would you mention abortion at the dinner table? would you argue gun control in church? how about christianity at an atheist's conference? i say, be aware of your surroundings and act accordingly: each topic has an appropriate f-o-r-u-m to wrangle its own issues.. pick your topic, and pick a forum that matches it, o.k.?

about ranting, maybe it's good to rant about r.rs. or what's happening to them.. i dont like to read about rantngs against people personally or name-calling.. you can argue about someone's behavior and their decisions in jobs they hold.. ranting against govt. and private business is good.. ranting against j. jones that #(^$#%& who doesn't know *** from a *** is wrong.. read the rules on the forum selection page..
you are certainly entitled to express your opinion, anytime, anywhere.. i'd love for you (and everyone else) to tell me where i'm wrong..
maybe i'll write back and tell them why i think they're wrong, but i would never say they're stupid, nor would i say they don't know anything about r.r., so go find another forum.. got it?

i speak for noone except myself in this letter.. these are my opinions about how it believe a forum should operate.. i respect everyone's right to disagree with anything they read here.. i'm not telling anyone what they can or cant do, im suggesting what might help the forum continue to be as interesting as it has been.. i believe it's most interesting when people talk about railroads, is all..

all aboard!

[Anonymous]

Engineers don't wave back because they don't like kids and apple pie. Now, on the other hand, conductors and brakemen always wave and smile.

[cabforward]

mr. skeets,

any stories you would like to repeat about anything you've heard from ot-r.rs. (old-time railroaders) is most welcome to myself.. especially, about new-comers they encountered and collosal muck-ups that didn't involve injury.. gripes about old r.r.-ing are interesting to me, as it shows the difference in machines, but how the people never change..

[cabforward]

w.c. fields was asked how he liked children, he said, 'parboiled!" myself, i would add a garnish of potatoes and spinach..

[Anonymous]

Who said I was a "trucker"? I am a member of the Teamsters union, but I do not drive a truck. I do, however, belong to what might be considered the last safe haven for the american blue collar worker. Your automatic assumption that I am a truck driver illustrates your lack of knowlege involving labor issues. Quite possibly your lack of knowlege of other issues as well. That's O.K. though, this is a free country, and everybody has the right to their own opinion. For the record, I work in the dairy industry, and no, I don't drive a milk truck. I do however, have to keep a constant vigil on "management" lest I let my guard down for a moment, I'll get "screwed" somehow. Railroaders are unfortunatly in the same boat. I don't suppose that you can relate to that though, I'll apply the same stereotype you used on me regarding my post, and suggest that you must sit behind a desk of some sort all day, oblivious to the goings-on out there in the "real world". I'll also hazard a guess that you are in the " over $75,000 salary" bracket.

[Mookie]

Cabforward: Ok - I agree with your discussion.
I have never called anyone a name, never discussed topics way off the subject and don't do politics as a rule of thumb - same with religion.

I have been called a "prolific writer" by someone - wonder if that is a barb or compliment.

However, if someone writes a little off the rr subject by mentioning something about their personal life, thoughts, enjoyments - that too is interesting. I would love a thumbnail sketch of everyone that writes on this forum. Young, old,
retired from ?, working for, etc. Ed from Houston and I throw in some personal items every so often, so people know a little about our "human" side. I hope this is acceptable to you and others, since this forum would get very boring if it were always techno-talk.

I love to "railroad" chat and don't want to see it become to rigid. And if some of them are too opinionated or radical, don't write back to them and they will go away eventually.

Jen

[Anonymous]

Myself, I like mine on the Bar-Bee, along with German style potato salad, and a cold Labatts to wash it down.

[cabforward]

thank for your answer.. i said many things which certainly do not apply to yourself.. i was speaking generally about general forum behavior.. about getting personal with readers, whatever.. a reader can certainly by-pass posts which do not interest him/her..

it is easier to digress from a subject than to stay on it.. as digression becomes more prevalent, the appearance of the forum will change and visitors to the site may wonder what is this all about.. of course, that's management's problem. if they want to pull in the reins on what people say here, it's their call.. and if people feel the direction of the forum has changed too much, they can certinly write to the manager and ask for a reading of the rules to the membership..

conversely, readers could also write that holding posts to the original topic of the forum is too restrictive and more leeway should be given to off-the-track coverage..

the coverage of the forum is a mutual thing between management and contributors.. both sides can by-pass what doesn't interest them, or leave the site, or ask for a reading of the rules.. i have done none of these.. i would want this forum to continue to be an exchange of info and views on r.rs.. i hope i never visit the site and not recognize it, due to the changes in what contributors discuss here.. i doubt there is a r.r. forum elsewhere as informative and convenient to a r.r. magazine's internet-version.. thanks.

[Mookie]

I agree with you - and it is a fun forum as well as very informative. I know I always learn a lot - but then I didn't start with much, so it is all uphill from here. And I hope I didn't hurt your leg when I tugged on it a little... :)

Jen

[Anonymous]

Well maybe I'll just throw one out there now and again...An old engineer (who taught me most of what I know about running) was taking a single Budd car down to Washington. With a single car, no fireman was required. He comes up on a road crossing, and lo and behold, a truck pulls past the flashing lights onto the track. If you hit a car with a Budd, it will roll up under the pilot. Any thing larger might come into the cab. A Budd's cab is not the place to be at that time, so the engineer dumps the air in emergency and steps through the cab door, sitting in the first seat to brace for the impact. Some how the truck was missed and the Budd came to a stop. About then, the engineer looked at the passenger next to whom he sat. The passenger briefly put his newspaper down and said, "You're a [heck] of a captain!"

[Anonymous]

O.K. Cabforward, you are making some sense here, but in this time of economical chaos, anytime you start to talk about labor issues, and how the average "Joe" is going to put food on the table, you are going to stir up some nasty rhetoric. I may have been hasty in my last post. I am, however tired of being trampled upon by "big business" every time I try to take a step forward in life. You stated that you work for minimum wage. So YOU of all people should be acutely aware of the shortcomings of todays economy. I'm a union worker that pulls in less than $30.000 a year, and still can't afford to buy a house. I have lived in this darned apartment for 10 years. But in my town, even a small 2 bedroom cape cod type house goes for $150.000. It is getting insane. I should have invested in real estate 20 years ago, and cleaned up. But how could I know back then, how bad things would be now? I'm afraid I'll be trapped renting till the day I die now... And that's no plan for retirement! Of course, I could raid my pension for a house, but then what do I do for money when I retire? I might own the roof, 4 walls, and yard, but how do I put food in the fridge?