Rail Car Graffitists

[espeefoamer]

Pack up the graffitists,put them on a slow boat and send them to Singapore!

[arbfbe]

Lock it down? I wonder why the post has been relatively civil with no mention of guns or personal attacks until today, Sunday even. Sure it is obvious I do not like graffiti and am happy to state that when someone tries to justify their graffiti penchant. However, vigilante actions with guns and clubs may seem extreme. Clean up, public service and restitution might eventually get the word out graffiti is illegal and not to be tolerated. Other cultures and societies may well go for public caning or removal of digits and I am not sure I would support such over here in the US.

I am not so sure 'you got nothing' is trolling but just trying to justify his love for his destructive hobby. I can not find any reasonable argument he has presented and have tried to point out the falacies of his point of view. If a year of hard public service labor and a $2500 fine has not changed his mind, I am pretty sure I will not. Obviously he has not considered his actions from the other point of view. Perhaps I can make that argument to him since I doubt he gets that from the crowd he hangs with.

So rather than locking the thread account it has suddenly dropped to the level of threats and name calling as well as vulgarity, the last several posters should go back and read the pro-graffiti arguments and compose a response to show why they are not acceptable to the rest of us. It was a nice discourse of sorts until this morning.

[dragonriversteel]

Sub-human excrement,from the bowels of the getto.....Artist yeah right!!!!! If their such an artist,why aren't they getting paid ? Whats their day job,if they have one?
Do you know how much it takes ,for the railroads to paint a freight car after the thug artist do their scribeings ? I don't know for sure,but I bet it's a pretty penny. These are the type of sub-humans that have all the time in the world.While the rest of us work and support them...if you get my meaning. Thats right welfare,as for the guy who paints his stupid pictures on the side of freight cars and then cashes in on suckers that buy his web base crap like coasters,coffee cups , kid's T-shirts ECT. Sure ...help the welfare bums some more. Artist yeah right !!!!!!!

Patrick

[CSXrules4eva]

Yes I think we need to most certainlly break out the pop corn here!!!!! I was going to sujgest it eairlier but route_rock beat me too it. We really needed to break it out when Adolf Hitler was mentioned...........................................................................

[Anonymous]

Why do these guys have to show up on Weekends?

Hey, here's something else that causes loss of sleep, rage, and is a nuisance...
...trolling.

If we had as many "troll-free" rallies as we do "graffiti-free" rallies, the internet would be a cleaner, more secure place. Unfortunately, freight cars would be covered with graffiti.[:(]

[|(]

C'mon guys, give it up. Preaching, scolding, begging, and even bribing will not get 99.9% of the graffiti-artist population to stop.

Number of threads about graffiti:

QUOTE: Originally posted by route_rock

Popcorn anyone? Banning maybe? How about locking this thread down?

[(-D]
Good one.[tup]

[Anonymous]

I was trying so hard not to reply to this topic, however it got a search going on the this computer gadget of mine and low and behold:

Who is Bozo Texino? by Bill Daniel

background is here: http://www.northbankfred.com/p_bill.html


Has anyone seen this documentary yet? I must see it!

Anyway, maybe it will come out on DVD. [:-,]

[vsmith]

DNFTT

why do these idiots ALWAYS show up on weekends

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by you got nothing

Rest in power hitler? *** you, end of story.

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

[route_rock]

Popcorn anyone? Banning maybe? How about locking this thread down? Just suggesting and btw unless you own the car why care? I love seeing some graffiti ( hump jobs are that boring that yes the art work is neat to see roll by) while others is just trash. You want to stop graffiti? Get a job as a bull or sit in your car at the yards watching for the malcontents who do this. Have fun up by our Western Ave yard, bring a gun and lots of ammo.You might need it.
End note to this discussion, look up Zearing Illinois on a map and tell me how many gang bangers might know where this town is. Seeings I have seen GD LK and other gang signs tagged all over our switch relay boxes.
Nuff said lock it down go gripe about how dispatchers cant dispatch or better yet flame each other over something else meaningless and out of your control.

[upchuck]

[:D]YGN
My 91 year old Mom has some opinions on the plight of retired persons. Can she come
over and grafitti your house?...I'll hold the ladder so she can make broad smooth
curves with the spray paint without falling off...

[Anonymous]

Rest in power hitler? *** you, end of story.

[zardoz]

text edited to emphasize the absurdity of the original post:

QUOTE: Originally posted by you got nothing
Has any shoplifting artist ever physicially harmed you or someone you know? I'm disgusted that another human being would think such things simply because someone else is only stealing . Why don't you just go ahead and set up concentration camps for anyone you find shoplifting...

Shoplifting changed my life for the better, to the point where I can't even imagine living without it. If it wasn't for shoplifting, I wouldn't have the job that I do, or a criminal record. I most likely wouldn't be interested in armed robberies, mugging, or grand larceny, three big aspects of my life. I wouldn't have met some of the most devious and deceptive people I've ever known.

Most of you are so quick so knock something you've got no idea about. But you seem to like parading around internet forums pretending that you do know about the shoplifting culture, the shoplifters and their habits ie stealing paint. But as ignorant as it is, keep it up because at the same time its absolute comedy listening to law-abiding men rant on about something they know nothing about, such as committing crimes.

Rest in power Hitler, much respect.

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by OneSecondPle

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I think most of the folks here will turn a blind eye to the old style chalk graffiti, a la Bozo Texino and Kilroy. While one can argue (correctly) that it still damages the finish, and the tagger is trespassing, et al, it's still not as offensive as the work of today's mural "artists. " I mentioned in another thread an auto carrier I saw with the whole side painted. Wonder how he managed to afford all that paint?

It was mentioned that some of these people have had work shown in noted galleries. If they are that good, let 'em do "real" art and leave other people's property alone.

Mabee a few RR cops should attend these "art" showings and press charges. If you are stupid enough to graffitti up a car and then show your work at a public venue you ought to be locked up for a bit.

[b]That is just as naive as it is stupid, which I guess can be the same thing. You cant just pin a simliar looking piece of art from a car/canvas. This isnt csi or a serial killer, its an artist. They dont leave dna or anyting behind. There is no hard evidence to snatch them up.

[:0]Hey there bud, Who you calling stupid? You ever hear of sarcasum? No need to be insulting.[:(!]

Some might call it art, that's opinion. Fact is it's vandalizing private property what ever way you slice it. No, it's not worth the effort to prosecute but that does not mean it's right.

I have to go with Chad on this one...Graffiti is an act of vandalism, accomplished in the act of trespassing, that will ultimately cost money on the part of the car's owner to correct..That art is in the eye of the beholder is a legitimate argument, but "art' acomplished as a criminal act is still criminal. No nice way to dress it up..It seems that as much is done on the similar kinds of cars, all one would have to do is see the areas the cars originate and work to find the location to stop the tagging. But it seems as was stated above, the RR cops seem more interested in stopping someone who is taking a picture, rather than some one who is destroying their propery and devaluing their stock.
This past evening i watched a BNSF northbound on the Ft. Scott sub, in the consist were twenty-six MRL cars, they were so heavily tagged it looked as if they were in an explosion alongside a paint factory..Not[ art and not pretty, just a mess.[2c]

[arbfbe]

YGN,

Your last post was quite nice to a point. Now by your own admission there were two or more of you involved in the damage to the building you got caught at. That means total damages to the structure were $5,000 or $7,500 or $10,000 or even more. That is not chump change for most business or individuals. Where exactly do you get off thinking, "It doesn't matter if it's illegal or not, I would still be doing graffiti it there were no penalties to it, because its what I do."

You mean not penalties to yourself. What about the multiple thousands of dollar penalty to the property owner if you had not been ratted out by your compatriots? The owner is just supposed to suck up that cost on his own? Why don't you just go over and steal their car as well? At least those costs might be covered by insurance. I doubt the penalties you paid came even close to matching the total costs that owner incurred trying to get the mess taken care of.

I stand by my original opinion. graffiti is scourge upon society adding to the costs born by others forced to clean up after individuals and groups who have little to lose to satisfy their own purient interests, darn the rest of us. I can only hope that if you regress to your old ways, you get caught or ratted out again. You obviously have the moral terpitude of a snake. That may be insulting to the snakes of the world. I am sure if graffiti would disappear tomorrow society would not mourn the loss. Nor would there be any loss of jobs account the sudden lack of clean up necessary.

[Anonymous]

#2

As far as my early attempts at graffiti, I will be the first to admit it was crude, and pointless. But I was also young when I got into to it, not that its any sort of excuse. I was arrested, and charged with over $2500 damages to one building alone. Now, I wasn't the only culprit, but I was the only one who went and met with the owner, appoligized for my actions and worked out a way to make things right, well my friends(who got me arrested in the first place.) got their parents to pay the debt, well I worked my***off for over a year doing community service for this bussiness. This is when I got serious about graffiti and realized it shouldn't be something you do just for the sake of doing it. So I buckled down, and greatly improved my skills. I have contacted local bussinesses and done commision work. I've painted legal walls, and I have painted over my own work because I was asked to. I realize that it is desctruction of property, and although this essentially goes against what I do, I do feel badly for damaging others property. It doesn't matter if its illegal or not, I would still be doing graffiti if there were no penalties to it, because its what I do.

[Anonymous]

Nowhere in my post did I deny graffiti was vandalism. And honestly, trying to explain this culture to you would be an emmence waste of my time. You obviously have your opinions set in stone, and I seriously doubt anything I am going to say is going to change your mind. And I find it offensive that you would consider serial killers a culture, thats just some uneducated attempt at pinning graffiti in with more serious crime that is often overlooked. You want to talk about stoping crime, what about the poverty all around us, homelessness, drug addicts, ect ect? I don't hear to many of you people talking about solving their problems, or at least trying to help. You'd much rather jump on graffiti writers, and how they make your lives more difficult.

Another point, don't associate gang bangers, and territorial markings with graffiti because you couldn't be more off. Although there is some gang graffiti, most of it is not connected to gangs, or violence at all. Just more assumptions on your part. And if you must know, I have used large rolls of paper to paste my artwork conveying my opinions, and overall impressions of society up, and I will continue to do so. Graffiti isn't just about spray paint, there are plenty of different ways of getting a message out there, and plenty of different mediums aswell.

And I realize my actions would not go over well in other cultures, but you know what. I've been blessed to have the life I do, and although I don't really agree with the way things are run, I acknowledge that it could be a hell of a lot worse, and I'm gratefull for that.

[joegreen]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

We had graffiti all over our condo complex and no one did anything about it, so I took a can of spray paint and sprayed a line (a wide line) through the middle of the tag, which is the worst thing that can happen to a tagger, Some railroads now are disfiguring tag graffiti with the same methods, which saves time and money and is more economical than removing the tag, until it is time to repaint the car. Some of these graffiti sprayers indeed do have a lot of talent and imagination and they are wasting this talent spraying buildings and trains, what an absolute waste of energy, potential, and talent.

They're not going to be mad at what you did because they have millions of other spots where they tagged. Railroads dont do what you did either. If the railroads reporting marks or weight limit numbers are covered up by the tag then they have to repaint the numbers in their original spot for crewman and companies loading the car.

[arbfbe]

You got nothing, pt III

You may get your wi***o see graffiti vandals behind bars if the railroads get their way and get a few state legislatures to pass laws making trespassing on railroad property a 4th class felony. Now that is living large, get a police record for painting on railroad equipment. Imagine trying to obtain a good interest rate on a home mortgage if you have a record of a felony conviction. Imagine trying to purchase a firearm as a felon. Imagine filling out job applications and listing your criminal record which now includes a felony arrest and conviction. Those legal fees could pay for a lot of paint.

Of course, there are some people who have willingly gone to jail for their beliefs. Think Mohatna Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, the Berrigan brothers, Daniel Ellsberg, Martin Sheen, Joan Baez and numerous other women and activists. They believed the end of colonial occupation, racial descrimination, war, death penalties, women's sufferage and the right to form a union were worth the hassle. I doubt you or any of the rest of your cabal would be willing to do the same. Try to keep an eye on bills introduced in your state legislature the next time it is in session. You may want to correspond with your representatives and tell them about how you feel concerning the railroad's attempt to criminalize your hobby and form of expression. Perhaps it will be best if you do not attach samples of your work for making your case.

[arbfbe]

you got nothing, pt II

So please enumerate for all of us who do not understand your culture exactly what property belonging to someone else was goobered up with your early crude attempts at art? How much garbage did you spew out before you reached a level at which employment using these skills became an option? Did anyone who owned the property in question ever come out and say, "I really like what you are doing, please continue". Have you ever had the courage to find the owner and ask them if you might decorate their property for them? Have you ever gone through a locked gate or past a sign stating No Trespassing to ply your hobby with cans of paint? Would you willingly go back and remove your decorations and restore the 'canvas' to it's original state if asked?

Why don't you send a letter to the presidents of all the class 1 railroads and offer these terms.

Hello Mr. XXXXX,

My name is (your name here) and I am an apprentice artist. I have been decorating your freight cars for some time now and I observe my idea of what these pieces of your equipment should look like is much better than what your company proffers. I there fore propose that you allow me to apply my decorations to twelve of your newest freight cars over the next six months at no cost to yourselves. Please provide me with cars that are free of decoration by other apprentice artists since they may interfer with my creative process. I can be reached at (your address and telephone number here). Attached you will find several photos of decorations I have already applied to your property so you can see the level of my workmanship.

Sincerely,

(your name here)

[arbfbe]

you got nothing,

It is not decorating freight cars, it is vandalism. Plain and simple destruction of property you do not own. It is big, heavy and found in dirty rail yards so it must be there for your amusement? No I do not hang with taggers so I suppose I do not understand the culture. I have been to some of the websites taggers use to show their handiwork. No social benefit I can see from any of it. I don't hand with serial killers either so I suppose I do not understand that culture either.

Take my earlier suggestion, paint your talent and artistic skill on the ends of rolls of news print and leave the railcars alone. We won't get into the injury and death that goes with gang bangers dissing each other's markings and territory.

The question remains, graffiti is in my face, what does it do for me? How does it make my job easier? Why should I support your defacement of someone elses property?

In different cultures in our world you could be publicly lashed for your art, if you were caught doing it in the right context, i.e. political dissent you could be shot. Not what I am suggesting but something for you to consider.

[tatans]

We had graffiti all over our condo complex and no one did anything about it, so I took a can of spray paint and sprayed a line (a wide line) through the middle of the tag, which is the worst thing that can happen to a tagger, Some railroads now are disfiguring tag graffiti with the same methods, which saves time and money and is more economical than removing the tag, until it is time to repaint the car. Some of these graffiti sprayers indeed do have a lot of talent and imagination and they are wasting this talent spraying buildings and trains, what an absolute waste of energy, potential, and talent.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe
Perhaps a little Islamic justice might be brought to bear. Imagine how hard it would be to operate a can of spray paint if the miscreants' thumbs were publicly removed with a scimitar.

Has any graffiti artist ever physicially harmed you or someone you know? I'm disgusted that another human being would think such things simply because someone else is decorating freight cars. Why don't you just go ahead and set up concentration camps for anyone you find tresspassing in the yards...

Graffiti changed my life for the better, to the point where I can't even imagine living without it. If it wasn't for graffiti, I wouldn't have the job that I do, or an apprenticiship. I most likely wouldn't be interested in trains, photography, screenprinting, three big aspects of my life. I wouldn't have met some of the most interesting and dedicated people I've ever known. Most of you are so quick so knock something you've got no idea about. But you seem to like parading around internet forums pretending that you do know about the culture, the artists and their habbits ie stealing paint. But as ignorant as it is, keep it up because at the same time its absolute comedy listening to middle-aged men rant on about something they know nothing about.

Rest in power Heist, much respect.

[Anonymous]

You know, I really respect the work these guys do, and yes it does look cool, but I really wi***hese guys would put their work on a CANVAS and make something of themselves...

[Anonymous]

One of my co-workers (an anonymous conductor) got into the railroad business because he was a former RR graffiti artist and that got him intrigued in trains.... yes, twisted I know....[%-)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kschmidt

Greetings,

Actually the "Halloween Hopper Car" is/was available from Graffitti Collectors Series in N-scale. I believe it is out of print, you might catch one on E-bay but be ready to pay $$$. I sent the photo of the "Monster" Hopper to the Graffiti Collector Series, he said he was going to make a set of Hoppers, haven't seen that yet. "Scale Rail Graphics" has a complete set for the "Fathers Day" hopper, all the decals to make the entire car both sides are in the set.

Yes the cars are there for Medusa - now LaFarge cement. I believe Walthers based there Medusa Cement on the Cement Silos located a bit farther west of the Jones Island, but it is still a Milwaukee prototype.

Yes it was unfortunate about the Milwaukee Road Touralux car, a Milwaukee Road group in Sturtevant was trying to get the car down there, but it was in no condition to run over the rails, and the cost to truck was just to much, so the Port of Milwaukee had it scrapped.

If you want full size copies of the hopper cars let me know via email I can send them to you.

Keith

Thanks Keith, actually I'm in 3 rail O, so N isn't even a good flat car load for me.[;)] The copies I mooched are just fine, you took gerat photos, nice and square. Lionel makes the perfect car body to complete the project, whenever I get around to it. I have a lot of layout to build before rolling stock embelishments become a priority. I have a topic running over on the MR forum if you are interested in seeing the layout.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50067

Larry, I can't argue that that house painting project isn't 10,000 times more constructive than tagging. The truth is community service of that type would be a very fitting sentence for those caught.

They don't need to have their thumbs cut off, or be thrown in jail. Five minutes in front of the judge, and an order for 500 hours of community service should keep them out of trouble for a while.

There's not much point cleaning up the railroad cars. Eventually they just rust anyway.[;)]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kschmidt


Also from what I have been told these large murals are painted by groups of taggers and they are very well prepared, including drawings of the work and assignments for certain people, so they can be done quite quickly.

That's what happened here. A large group of people showed up, with ladders and assignments and donated paint, and painted the house of a fellow who had recently been diagnosed with cancer.

If we could get the taggers to use their energy on stuff like this, they wouldn't be vandals, they'd be good Samaritans.

[kschmidt]

Actually like I mentioned the Hopper cars, I have it on some pretty good sources, Law Enforcement type that they were painted in Madison, WI, not here in Milwaukee. These cars are moved quite often in Milwaukee, also both the UP and CP switch on Jones Island, so there are people down there from 6am to 12 midnight at least. They just occasionally visit Milwaukee.

Also from what I have been told these large murals are painted by groups of taggers and they are very well prepared, including drawings of the work and assignments for certain people, so they can be done quite quickly.

I also don't condone the graffiti on railcars, as a law enforcement officer if I saw someone committing the crime I would take action and arrest the offenders. However some of the work is quite impressive, unfortunately it is not legal.

Keith Schmidt

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kschmidt

Here some examples of Railroad Graffitti, these cars are typically seen down at the Milwaukee Harbor in cement service. That is where all of them were photographed. I understand that the artist on the 2-bay Cement Hoppers maybe from the Madison, WI area. Due to the (608) area code on the car. Now there photos are 2-3 years old, but they are still around. I did hear that the owner of the hoppers was actually looking for the artist to have him do some more art, with his blessing. I don't know if that is true or not.









Note - The former Milw Road passenger car in the 3rd photo is no longer there it was scrapped earlier this year, unfortunately.

Keith

Dont they bother to move these cars? or at least patrol the area?

These took several day, and ladders to do.

[kschmidt]

Greetings,

Actually the "Halloween Hopper Car" is/was available from Graffitti Collectors Series in N-scale. I believe it is out of print, you might catch one on E-bay but be ready to pay $$$. I sent the photo of the "Monster" Hopper to the Graffiti Collector Series, he said he was going to make a set of Hoppers, haven't seen that yet. "Scale Rail Graphics" has a complete set for the "Fathers Day" hopper, all the decals to make the entire car both sides are in the set.

Yes the cars are there for Medusa - now LaFarge cement. I believe Walthers based there Medusa Cement on the Cement Silos located a bit farther west of the Jones Island, but it is still a Milwaukee prototype.

Yes it was unfortunate about the Milwaukee Road Touralux car, a Milwaukee Road group in Sturtevant was trying to get the car down there, but it was in no condition to run over the rails, and the cost to truck was just to much, so the Port of Milwaukee had it scrapped.

If you want full size copies of the hopper cars let me know via email I can send them to you.

Keith