Are all train horns created equal?

[Anonymous]

Good Morning Everyone,
I was just curious and need the knowledge of those who actually run the engines. Why the difference in "loudness" of some engine horns? Also does brake pipe/res. pressure effect the loundness of the horn. I noticed a train yesterday that I honestly could barely hear the horn. They appeared the be braking at the time. Finally do you think sounding the horn in an "emergency" sequence is effective to those motorist who may not have seen you. Thank you for any info on this topic.

[Anonymous]

My gosh, I hope braking doesn't weaken the horn, or I'm bailing! But no, that's not a problem, as there is an auxilary reservoir for appliances such as horns, bells and wipers. If I'm abut to wack some guy at a road, I'm laying on the horn to protect myself; the event recorder will dutifully record my horn blast right before I creamed this guy. One less thing for his lawyer (or his estate's lawyer) to pick at. I don't know why different horns should be less loud than others, but some are. If they are nearly inaudible, the engine can always be refused for safety reasons. I have one complaint about the new horns. I used to be able to play or feather them on the older yard and road power. No more. We had some exC&O, exexPM NW2's that had a single trumpet that you could make sound like a love sick moose! Those days are gone. My favorite sounding horn is the Leslie 5 chime. Sweet. One of the loudest horns was some ex B&O SW-1's built in 41/43. Just a single trumpet, but dang those things were loud! skeets

[csxengineer98]

horn loudness can be changed if the horn has collected crap in it... most rail roads put a fabric cover of the open end, but alot of times locomotives dont have it... its just like driveing down the road in your car and you hit a bunch of bugs... now you have bug cuts all over your windsheild, now think about the same thing on a loco air horn, the thing acks like a funnel... and if it isnt blown for a while, or isnt cleaned out proporly, it can be clogged up... or someone has the horn cut-out-**** only half way open....
csx engineer

[louisnash]

Trains Magazine about a year ago or so had in their ABC of railroading section in the magazine a question about horns, I can't remember exactly which month, but it could possibly be in their ABC section of this website. It had the different chimes of horns that certain locos had or which railroad. Hope this helps instead of learning about bugs

[Anonymous]

Hi! I am new to the train.com website. I don't kow a lot about trains, but I have a story to tell from first hand experience.

I was hit by a Burlington-Northorn Freight Train in 1986. The Crossing had no Armguards or lights at that time. There was a white/black railroad crossing "X" and a yellow round warning sign.

I am not the type of driver that tries to race across a crossing with an oncoming train in view. I don't rmember what happened. To this day I still can't remember the actual happening.

i was 46 yrs. of aga at the time. I was alone in the car, on my way to work that morning. My daughter who was about 13 yrs.of age had just finished the school year and was at home. We lived about 3 or 4 miles from the Railroad where the accident happened.

I sustained some injuries. Minor injuries in a sense that I was not crippled or anything as drastic as that, but I had broken my left clavical and 6 months later the Dr. took a bone from my hip and placed it in my shoulder with a 2" metal plate to fuse together that area. Of course I have permanent back problems from the accident and almost broke my left leg..but I am blessed. It could have turned out much worse.

I waited for 3 months before I decided to sue Burlington-Northern Railroad Company. We settled out of court..I didn't really make much for the pain I endure every day.

My Lawyer found that the Conductor did not blow his horn upon approaching the crossing, also the Conductor was speeding.

I was out of work for 10 months and when I returned to work, I had to carry a pillow,heating pad, ice pack for the last 4 years that I worked. before I was laid off my job in October,1990. Due to other medical problems not directly related to this accident, I have been on Social Security Disability.

I can not stand or stand very long with out support to my back and that is directly from my accident. I am mobile..but in a lot of pain.

Well.. I have some friends that like trains and I have heard that Salley Jesse Rafael is an avid train collector. She has a huge collection.

Take care. Sorry I was long winded, but I just wanted to tell my story.

~GBU~

Thank you

boppy1

[edblysard]

Dont run a motor, but do a lot of switching. Trains ran a article a few years ago about the different styles of horns, seems there are one trumpet, or single chime, two chime and three chimes, and the one we have down here at the PTRA, a Nathan five chime. We have older style, GP control stands, and our engineers can still feather, or play the horns. Some of the old heads and just about make the things sing. It depends on what valve is in the horn handle, some give full blow no matter how hard or soft the engineer pull the handle, some have a variable blow, and the engineer can change the volume and tone by how hard he pulls. I asked our shop wizzard why the tone changes when my engineer pulled softly, and blasts your eardrums out when he gives it a good haul. Seems the chimes also have a different pressure for each one, so a soft blow only makes one or two play, and a full pull, no pun intended, lets them all rip. And you better belive me, when a idjit runs in front of us at a crossing, all five chimes blasting will get their attention, even over their stereo.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Thank the Good Lord you were not killed. I have to say that I find your statement about not being the type of person to try and beat the train is very interesting. Let me give you some history as to why. I was on a Jury that was hearing a civil case of a young girl(17) who was tragically killed at an unprotected(lights but no gates) crossing. We ended up in a deadlock because the mentallity seemed to be that if you crossed the tracks and was killed it was your own fault. I have since learned quite a number of things that could be done to save hundreds of lives each year. I started a forum a little while back entitled "safety at crossings", let me tell you it was a heated forum. Everyone seemed to think that if you crossed the tracks and was killed or injured it was your own fault. I attempted to bring up the issue of those who were not trying to beat the train, sight distance issues, funding of lights, etc.. Needless to say free market capitalism won(Snow in Government)but the fact remains that there is a lot of proof that the railroads and government seem to subscribe to the money(profit) before lives attitude. I appreciate hearing your story, knowing that there is someone who may not have been beating the train and fortunately live to tell about it. The sad part is there are many that don't.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. Ed, hope all is well with you down in TX.
Mike

[oltmannd]

Horns gotta be 95dB or better at 100 ft in front of the locomotive measured from track centerline. Conrail used to test each locomotive order to be sure that in met the spec. In general, cab mounted horns are louder than those mounted back along the long hood, but the cab mounted ones were a problem because they were too loud inside the cab.

[Anonymous]

It's not bugs. No horns were covered on B&O 30 years ago. The only time something would collect in the trumpet to muffle the sound was running in heavy snow fall; the first note was slightly muffled, and then it would blow out. B&O/WM/C&O covered no horns; that's a recent (last 6/10 years) thing. skeets

[Anonymous]

Have ALL manufacturers gone to airhorns these days with the electronic controls that can't be feathered or played, or (hopefully) are there some RR's that still specify those!

[csxengineer98]

bugs was a possable cause..i didnt say it was the only one...and yes snow and ice can be a problem, but if the horn is muffled, it every well could be some fourn debree in it...but its mostly becouse its not getting enough air! like i said, the horn cutout valve could be only part way cut in, you people dont want to look at that..only want to nit pick about bugs! come on..it was only one posable cause!!! i have been on power that the horn is low, and i took the back off the controll stand and found out the cut out was only part way open...so i opened it up the rest of the way, and it was fine.... so nit pick that one why dont you!
csx engineer

[AntonioFP45]

Good input guys.[8)][:)]

For those of you that want to know the differences between diesel locomotive horns you can go to:

http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/ if youhave trouble connecting, just type in Five Chime Consultants on your search engine.

If you have Media Player or a comparble feature, you can actually hear different horn samples as well as read up on history.[4:-)][tup]

I had been curious about horn differences since my teen years, and finally last year at age 39, I learned thanks to Five Chime Consultants! Reading about horn basics in TRAINS MAGAZINE helped a little but it was HEARING THE DIFFERENCES between horns finally made it click in my [%-)][:o)]head! Just for the fun of it, I now make it a habit to identify the type of horn whenever I hear trains. On CSX six axle units coming through Tampa, we've been getting mostly K5La's and K5H's, both loud and imho, pleasant.

I think that the "moose" horn skeets referred to is either the WABCO or Leslie versions of the "honkers" which many early diesels received. I like these myself.

What's nice is that in model railroading, these sounds can now be easily recreated from "inside" of model diesels that are HO scale and bigger. Thanks to DCC and a company called Soundtraxx.

God Bless![:)][;)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Good input guys.[8)][:)]

For those of you that want to know the differences between diesel locomotive horns you can go to:

http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/ if youhave trouble connecting, just type in Five Chime Consultants on your search engine.

If you have Media Player or a comparble feature, you can actually hear different horn samples as well as read up on history.[4:-)][tup]

I had been curious about horn differences since my teen years, and finally last year at age 39, I learned thanks to Five Chime Consultants! Reading about horn basics in TRAINS MAGAZINE helped a little but it was HEARING THE DIFFERENCES between horns finally made it click in my [%-)][:o)]head! Just for the fun of it, I now make it a habit to identify the type of horn whenever I hear trains. On CSX six axle units coming through Tampa, we've been getting mostly K5La's and K5H's, both loud and imho, pleasant.

I think that the "moose" horn skeets referred to is either the WABCO or Leslie versions of the "honkers" which many early diesels received. I like these myself.

What's nice is that in model railroading, these sounds can now be easily recreated from "inside" of model diesels that are HO scale and bigger. Thanks to DCC and a company called Soundtraxx.

God Bless![:)][;)]

This is such a cool website - I have the people in my department going nuts looking for the trains! I plan to keep this on my favorites and keep on driving 'em down that road! [}:)]

[tree68]

On careful review of the aforementioned website, I find that I've been there before.The samples include what happens when the individual chimes malfunction, or fail, leading to some unique presentations, several of which were provided for your listening pleasure. A multi-chime horn with one bell squealing is quite the attention-getter!

Just as important is the notes that are used for the chimes. The website referenced above makes note of many of them. Different railroads preferred different chords (and they probably still do), leading to a "family" sound for that RR. Some are quite pleasant to hear, some will make the hair on your neck stand up. (That would be a desireable feature, though.)

Several years ago my daughter and I were walking toward one of the exhibit buildings at the Syracuse model railroad show (NYS Fairgrounds) when we heard a five chime horn blowing for a crossing. Judging on where the sound was coming from (we couldn't see it yet) and where I knew the tracks were in the area, something was amiss.

Indeed. On arriving at the exhibit building we found a pickup equipped with a five chime horn (make unknown), a loco bell (air operated) and yellow strobes on a rack over the bed. The bed held a large air reservoir. Guaranteed to get the attention of that errant pedestrian or balky driver ahead of you at the stoplight. [;)] I think it had standard headlights though. I suppose you could mount a loco headlight on the rack and refer to the regular headlights as ditchlights....

[AntonioFP45]

Hi Mookie, Tree68 [:)][:D][8D]

Glad that you liked the website! [%-)][%-)] I've been perplexed that most modelers and railfans I speak to take little notice of the distinct sounds between horns! And as Tree indicates, some Railroads have a "signature" horn, used by the majority of that road's locomotives.[4:-)]

For me, locomotive horns are "railfanning music". As a teacher, when I sometimes want to get the kids attention in a "creative" way, I turn the volume up on my computer's high quality speakers to HIGH and play any one of the horn sounds that I've downloaded. Believe me a K5LA horn commands INSTANT ATTENTION! [{(-_-)}][C):-)][tup]

My favorite horn was the SL4T. Amtrak had these "melodic music makers" on most of their SDP40fs. The sound was unique.[^] Unfortunately they're rare as Amtrak got rid of all the SDPs by the early 80s and were switching over to the K5 since it was less maintenacne intensive.[sigh][;)]

I hope that some of you all decide to check out the website posted just above MOOKIE's response. What do you think of it? Also try the links. Great stuff! [swg][tup]

Happy Railfanning, [:D][8)][C):-)][:P][:)]
God Bless!

[wabash1]

Mike you are so right. it is a conspearacy see if i am comming up on a crossing and i see someone that makes me mad. i turn the air flow down on the horn and when he crosses i cream them. being that the horns are electricly activated and this is recorded in the on board event recorder it is recorded as being blown but to anyone outside the cab it is not loud enogh to scare a bug. and we have the joy and fun of seeing those people die at crossing just because they make us mad. we take it upon our selves to make sure the gene pool is not infected with anti-train people and we are about to make it by law to have a sign on your vehicle what you do for a living so if you are a lawyer you are targeted first.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
we found a pickup equipped with a five chime horn (make unknown), a loco bell (air operated) and yellow strobes on a rack over the bed.

You can buy these systems online and install the train horns on your own truck.

Here's the site:
http://www.ricksontruck.com/airhorns-train.html

Grover 3 chime train horns for your truck.
I was going to buy and install one in my car, but they said there would likely not be enough room for the compressor under the hood. [:(]

Ah well, cool site though.
Here's a link to a thread where they talk about them in their trucks, with a few pictures.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33503

[Puckdropper]

wabash1, I hope that's sarcasm. Usually, a [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] indication helps to make sure you aren't mis-understood.

I believe there may be a law against using train horns on non-train vehicles... Saw it on a site or another.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Mike you are so right. it is a conspearacy see if i am comming up on a crossing and i see someone that makes me mad. i turn the air flow down on the horn and when he crosses i cream them. being that the horns are electricly activated and this is recorded in the on board event recorder it is recorded as being blown but to anyone outside the cab it is not loud enogh to scare a bug. and we have the joy and fun of seeing those people die at crossing just because they make us mad. we take it upon our selves to make sure the gene pool is not infected with anti-train people and we are about to make it by law to have a sign on your vehicle what you do for a living so if you are a lawyer you are targeted first.

Ooo - Wabash, your cynicism is showing! [}:)]

[wabash1]

Puckdropper

that dont deserve a answer take it anyway you see fit.

Mookie

[ flashback] to the days of the M&M twins [ this is how i am to write on here now caging my words] and that cold streak just came out [ truth ] ...

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Puckdropper

that dont deserve a answer take it anyway you see fit.

Mookie

[ flashback] to the days of the M&M twins [ this is how i am to write on here now caging my words] and that cold streak just came out [ truth ] ...

Wabash - once again - some little, small part of my being just loves it! Try not to let it out too often, but it is definitely there!

Mook

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Mookie, [:D][8D]

Wabash is just kidding around [;)][;)], but I can understand the frustration. A train, IMHO, is the EASIEST mode of powered transport to avoid getting hit by! [swg] (Unless one derails at the crossing - [:0] and your stuck there with cars behind you!)

Macguy, [:)][8)][^]
You reminded me of an idea I had a while back. I've considered getting a motor boat in the next few years (used ones in good shape now sell at very reasonable prices ). I would seriously consider mounting locomotive horns on one. I'd like the K5H (popular with Canadians Roads ) or an S5.
Would be a real attention getter at the local Marina!!!!!!!!

I do like the K5La, but I hear it so often on Amtrak and CSX locomotives that I'd prefer someting different. To top it off, you can even get the K5La horn sound for model locomotives too!! Definetly "sounds" like the makings of a futue railroad icon!

[tree68]

I can see a little problem getting enough compressor/reservoir on the boat to run the horn...

On the other hand, if you can get a K5La for model locos, you can probably port that into a PA amplifier (think police/fire electronic siren - 100 watts!). Shouldn't take too much to put that all together, you put a shiny chrome speaker on the front of the boat, and blast away. Can't play with it (as you would the real one, by varying the air), probably wouldn't be as loud, but would still be very distinctive! Besides, I'm not sure I'd want a 5 chime horn on the bow of my boat. Might have a distinct effect on my hearing, too.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks for the tip TREE68,

With the type of boat I want the compressor wouldn't be a problem, it's the reservoir/tank. Your idea does offer an interesting option.

BTW: For anyone that's curious, you can go to your search engine and type in Soundtraxx. When you get to the website, click on DCC Sound. Then click on Sound Samples. You'll see two charts on the lower half of the page. There are Steam and Diesel samples of what the decoders actually sound like. Considering that the sounds are compressed on the web, I think that they sound great!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hey Mookie, [:D][8D]

Wabash is just kidding around [;)][;)], but I can understand the frustration. A train, IMHO, is the EASIEST mode of powered transport to avoid getting hit by! [swg] (Unless one derails at the crossing - [:0] and your stuck there with cars behind you!)

Macguy, [:)][8)][^]
You reminded me of an idea I had a while back. I've considered getting a motor boat in the next few years (used ones in good shape now sell at very reasonable prices ). I would seriously consider mounting locomotive horns on one. I'd like the K5H (popular with Canadians Roads ) or an S5.
Would be a real attention getter at the local Marina!!!!!!!!

I do like the K5La, but I hear it so often on Amtrak and CSX locomotives that I'd prefer someting different. To top it off, you can even get the K5La horn sound for model locomotives too!! Definetly "sounds" like the makings of a futue railroad icon!

Antonio - I once posted during the M & M twins rantings that the train can't get off the tracks and chase you across the country! I thought it was pretty obvious, but evidently one of the twins didn't see it that way!

[tree68]

Some years ago, a radio personality in Detroit had as a guest a guy who did train sound effects with his mouth. He was pretty damned good, too. The "moving between two cars" was nothing short of outstanding - you'd have thought you were really there.

He related that he and a friend used to pass through this one town at 2 am daily. There were no railroads in the town. Using a PA installed in the car, he would create the sounds of a train passing through. Apparently they had the townfolks all but down on their knees looking for the tracks...

[jchnhtfd]

Yo, Antonio... keep in mind the old saying: a boat is a hole in the water, lined with wood [or fibreglas or whathaveyou) into which you pour money... it ain't the first cost, good buddy!

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks Jchnhtfd!

But the idea is fun.

[Anonymous]

You can tell a former BN engine from a SF engine, BN horns are usually mounted in back and are nice and quiet, but ATSF horns are deafening.