Problem for the future of model railroading?

[Anonymous]

I would like to know how others feel? They say to keep the hobby alive, programs need to be set up to get more people interested in the hobby, including children. I have heard from many people including ones with children Say They would like to get into the hobby, but they can't afford it. it seems that the price of products in the hobby are rising. Last I saw the economy isn't doing so good. I hope manufactures see this and realize they can't keep uping the price, or they could force more individuals out of the hobby. Tony

[csxns]

They are not going to let us model railroad anymore.It is a threat to national security.

[Anonymous]

High prices and so called "limited edition" models are killing the interest in the hobby. It is no longer a hobby that can be cheaply followed, and most kids are not interested in modeling trains anymore. The railroads are almost invisable in this country now, and there is very little variety left in what is left. Although the industry is doing well, there are not very many people out there anymore that have any contact whatsoever with the railroads other than to get stopped at the occasional grade crossing.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Thats why the interest is droping off.
Thats why Manufatures in the hobby and hobby shops need to relize that there survival is at stake. If interest decline, than the hobby won't survive, sales drop. I would like to know what the manufactures and hobby shops feel about this. Tony

[Anonymous]

This stuff was expensive when I was a kid in the early 80's, and it's become a lot more expensive now that I'm in my 30's making more money NOW than BACK THEN! I now see locomotives selling for $100-150.00 new, (Atlas or Kato engines), and some of the less expensive not so elite brands sell for $75-$90.00. You either have to spend the money to get these, or settle for the $14.99 F40 for all of your locomotive needs. And for $125.00, you don't get that much more for the money than a $35.00 Athearn loco. Save the money and put on your own detailing parts, have some fun. Also, I'd love to get one of those brass imported OMI C44-9W engines, but at $600.00-$700.00+, I'd rather invest that money. Even in a bad economy my money will be worth 10 times that in about 20 years, the brass import loco? If anyone wants to buy it from me for $7,000.00+ in 2023, let me know and I'll get a few. If these prices keep up, the hobby will die for sure.

[Anonymous]

I have to agree. The market seems to be based toward the higher budget people with a disposable income. But I also find if you look hard and spend a little more time you cand find some good sales here and there. I have been picking up 2nd hand equipment and damaged packages to cut down on cost. Yea I like the cool 300$ 'Big Boy" locos or the $1,000 Hiawatha lionel set. Now realisticly I get the blue box Atherns (that I like alot!) and the lower priced 2nd hand Lionel locos ($15-50), and cars ($5-20). Its a good fix for my needs.....but it is not helping the manufactures and many of the local hobby shops who dont deal with 2nd hand stuff.
Do what you have to do to make your self happy...as YOU are the one who enjoys this hobby.
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee
The Cheap Enuf RR man!

[Anonymous]

Here here for the blue boxed Athearn railroad cars! That's about 98.5% of my rolling stock. Also if anyone wants to know, Life Like's Proto 2000 series in HO scale are as good as Kato or Atlas. My p2k GP30 just won't die.

[Anonymous]

Most parent won't pay the price of trains today for their kids. You can get some good prices if you shop around. now think about it, I can remember seeing toy trains around almost every christmas tree, and train sets were in every store with a wide selection. That was part of the tradition. In the last 8 months I went to three train shows. The first two were small but had good prices. The last one was not that much larger ( the great american train show ), But the prices were high. One guy inflated is athearn blue box three to five dollar more. He kept telling everyone that the reason was that Athearn was discontinuing the blue box athearn kit. I never heard about this, and I hope not. I didn't buy from him. I didn't buy much at the show. Really the spot to buy is the internet. Many friends I know on the hobby tell me that they go to the hobby shop to look at a product then order it on the internet, saving money. It seems that the suppliers in the hobby want to get all the money they can now, and take the hit later when the interest declines. Not caring about there survival in the future or the hobbies survival. Tony

[Anonymous]

I saw the wrighting on the wall about 98-99 when Kadee came out with their $30 offering an thought o well I still have good old Intermountain, Athearn, etc. Well today, most manufactures have followed suite. Rumor mill has it that Athearn may discontinue the blue box(that imho would kill the hobby as most newbies start there).

As I see it this is a two pronged dilema. 1st. the $30 a pop take it out of the box an run it model. 2. If it is taken out of the box rtr, where are all the undecs?? Whell their goes some of the paint manufactures lagre product lines. Who needs csx yellow, cnw green, nyc jade green, sf red, acl purple, I think you get the picture, The manufactures will make them. Then theirs the decal companys. Champ I understand has limited production but will keep a hand in the hobby. Micro-Scale I have heard is having a lot of problems, (got this off of the Atlas forum, it seems the new owners of Micro-Scale furlowed their head decal researcher/desiner a couple of weeks ago but he is going to work for Odd-Balls decals). Then what about the small detail companys? Who needs them when you buy that $30 car with all the bells, whistles, an pretty paint!! Like NFTA, this could become a VERY slippery slope. One more thing, how can they figure $30 when the labor in China is pennies to our dollar per hour??? Thank God for Branchline an a few other companies still produce kits that can be customized!!!

[Anonymous]

Rumors are that the decal business is already dead. Most of the companies providing them now are just selling thru what they have in stock and there most likely will not be any new decals offered in the next few years. I imagine future railroaders will go with the Microsoft train simulator, virtual railraoding sounds a lot cheaper and much easier to transport. They won't have any need for decals, but if they did, they could make their own.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,I tell you this..The hobby is doom if the prices keep going up..

The manufacturers set the trap and we fell into it..The very idea of limited runs was to produce more different style of engines..Well,this is true to a degree..Ask yourself this..How many repeat runs are they? Now the same locomotives made as limited runs in the 90s is now being sold as "Classics" but at 2003 prices! Go figure.

Now,remember not everybody has a computer to get the better deals.Now look closely you will see that the discount prices is slowly but surely on the raise as well.

The few non modelers that demanded rtr cars and pre detailed engines also help drive the price up.I have read time again they don't have the time to build a kit..What? Yet they have time to spend on a computer in order blast Athearn as so much junk.. Why? Because they LACK the basic modeling SKILLS needed to make those locomotive run smoothly..The irony of it they ask for a highly detailed loco then turn around and lamblast it because this or that is not correct!!! Most times a detail part and 5 miutes of modeling will take care of the problem.All of this added details added to the cost of the locomotive..

I tell you this..The Worlds Greatest Hobby farce is just a stop gap measure.Doom to fail.

Picture this if you will.A guy gets information about the hobby..He/she is really fired up into getting into the hobby..Great right? Wrong! He/she walks into a hobby shop and leaves screaming about the high costs! Who's to blame?

Now a guy/gal picks up a Athearn or P2K engine,cars,track and power pack...Now he goes to the library and gets on the cumputer signs up on a forum-your choice..Ask a basic wiring question and is told right away he needs DCC to run his one engine on a simple 4'x8' layout!!!
Of course Model Railroader is preaching the same thing! Whose to blame? Remember no one really needs DCC to run his trains.It is nice to have though.I use DCC BTW.

Yes,we fell into a trap and now paying the higher prices..Who's to blame?

What to do? Simple..DO NOT PERTAKE OF THE FEEDING FRENZY WHEN A LOCOMOTIVE OR CAR IS FIRST RELEASE..Let the PRICE drop FIRST! Vote with you wallet as well..The manufacturers will get the point when the sales drop way off.

[Anonymous]

This is basically what I said in the Kid and Model Railorading Forum on the Trains site. It is totally different from 2 or 3, or even ONE decade ago. How can children be interested in modeling something that they rarely if ever see, and as you said little vareity, etc, etc.

[Anonymous]

If you're gonna focus on price, consider the cost for our kids to do other Non-RR hobby stuff. Electronic games are $50 each...equipment for any sport can run several $100...bicycles are $150...roller blades $150...etc., etc. PRICE is NOT the problem, PERCEPTION of the hobby and kid peer presure are two more powerful culprits contributed by lack of parental involvement/assistance. Come on Dads, take your kids to a RR show, buy them a RR book, HELP them build their first layout...it's TIME that's priceless.

[Anonymous]

Also, maybe this tread better positioned for the "model railroad" forum.

[Anonymous]

Yea this thread is probibly in the wrong forum but who better to pu***he hobby the the people who work(ed) the rails?

I kinda feel that more people are plain & simple....lazy. That and more parents are ignoring the traditional family values that planing, shopping, building and most important ENJOYING a model railroad is all about... Teaching and learning.
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee

[BRAKIE]

Tom O. I disagree..I feel it is the prices that scare most folks off as most still see model trains as toys unlike the other things you mention.Sorry our model trains are adult toys-no more no less...And that is the way most folks see it.Would a normal kid rather have 3 $50.00 games to one $150.00 engine? One skate board that little Johnny or Sue can ride with their friends? Todays kids want action and want it NOW! What good is that $150.00 engine going to do them when they don't have a layout to run it on..Forget most clubs..Adults only! Kids need not apply! Again whose to blame?

[Anonymous]

Let me put my $.02 in.
I watched my nephews run my trains. They get board quickly because they're more into fast pace video games. After a while they wanted to cra***rains like in the "Adams Family". They didn't know how much I paid for everything. I don't recommend this hobby for anyone immature.
I had an S scale train set when I was a little kid but lost interest in it, as I got older, due to slot cars and other hobbies. I wasn't intrested in true model trains untill I was in my late twenties. Once it's in your blood, it's hard to stop. Especially after you built a craftsman kit or super detailed something.
The National Model Railroad Association is struggling with membership numbers falling. That's not good for the hobby either. For example, without their guidance, DCC wouldn't have progressed to what it is today or nor would it have an exciting future.
Model railroad manufacturers must know something we don't. Why are they offering so many new, higher end products and built up structurs if there wasn't a market for it? It must be for either the lazy or instant gratification crowd. But how could someone develope skills, patience and feel proud of their accomplishments with built up kits or a finished and highly detailed locomotive? Who finds enjoyment in opening a box and setting a built up structure on the layout? If that's the case, why bother with the hobby at all unless it's just a display for under the Christmas tree. I here old timers often remark their railroad will never be finished. That's because the enjoyment of the hobby is in the work and being proud of it.

[Anonymous]

I happen to agree. There is a feeling of pride after you scrach build a bridge or building. Its the same feeling I get after spending 4hrs detailing my 95 Chevy Beretta. Any one in ANY hobby/project who is 'hooked' will tell you that they are NEVER finished because they want that next lil diferance that no one else thought of!
My car is/will never be finished... just as my urge to collect and build train stuff keeps growing. Hey at least this addiction is legal and oh so much fun! lol:)
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

My kids would rather play Railroad Tycoon II on the computer than operate my model railroad. Price of the software, less than$50. Enough said.....

[Anonymous]

I've loved trains since childhood. Grew up around them, got some lionels, later built n gauge shelf railroad. All very fun and yes, costly. Always seems the market keeps ahead of my wallet. I now have Trainz, software by Auran. I can create any layout including structures, terrain, paint, etc., any equipment from around the world, enjoy all the sound effects, climb into my trains and run them from the cab or casually enjoy the vistas of my layouts from the rear of an observation car [california Zephyr]or from the cupola or deck of a caboose, or I can jump ahead to any location on my layout [we call them routes] I program, wait for the train and hear it approaching, with bell and horn if I decide, watch the consist that i assembled pass by from a 360 degree viewing angle. This is virtual model railroading, and it all fits in a space the size of a postcard. Yes you need the initial investment of a decent computer and about $50, but from there its basically free, and limitless. I've had more fun with this than any previous modeling experience.

[cabforward]

i know this is a problem for many operators.. how to keep the line running when interest drops off.. here are some things that can be done:
accept loads from foreign lines; promote your road as a good connection between yourself and other destinations, or between 2 points not covered by your territory;

start a subsidiary to generate interest in resources along the r-o-w.. contact real estate agents to coordinate inquiries about pacrels adjacent to rail access;

advertise your rail access as a 'best-kept secret' in your region.. everyone wants to know a secret..

promote the message that switchtracks will be constructed without a subsidy from customers;

if the territory has tourist potential, work with local groups to develop interest via chambers of commerce, motels and restaurants.. this has a goal of a tourist ride thru the region.. inquire as to historical roots (someobody important died here a long time ago.. we know / dont know where he is buried).. commonality with prominent locations (we are on the same latitude as many other towns in europe and asia,; we cant pronounce their names, but we have a world globe at the county library).. ask for tax breaks from taxing districts which cover your location(s).. if they say no, cook the books and use the profits to add more rail access or promote your system (the line nobody believes)..

merge with another road; in a few months, declare the combination has overwhelmed your railroad's capacity to manage the increase in tonnage and has idled yard operations everywhere; many people will pay to see a road's yards and crews swamped with more work than they can handle; contract with amtrak to lease them trackage over your routes.. wreck the first train that comes along and make a big 'to-do' about how it's their fault.. dont give a reason, leave it open-ended for the investigation, it makes a cover-up easier..

there's lots that can be done to generate interest in a railroad, trains are a natural attraction for people.. the problem is to keep the interest at a satisfactory level in good times and bad.. there are many places to go to for help: other r.rs., the fra, aar, nrhs.. everybody has a story about how a r.r. wasn't doing well until it did whatever, that pulled it away from oblivion.. actually, 'oblivion' could be a great name for a stop.. it can be 'worked' on any levels.. there is noone who wouldn't want to know why a railroad is heading for 'oblivion'.. the rest is history, or maybe a charge to the previous quarter's financial statement..

[Anonymous]

Hi Tony,

I agree with 100 percent..Out here in Massachusetts, our last three shows from 1999-2003 have steadily decreased in size. It seems according to friends of mine who have booths at this show said their best year was 1998-99. Since then their income has slipped up to 20 percent.
Two things happend out here..One the Event Area started to charge for parking $4.00 per car..
Food prices inside the facilities went up 45 percent..The cost was jack up on the vendors from
85.00 per table to over $125.00 per table..So, the vendors had to pass this cost on to the us the Modelrailroader..And now we have the NET and some deals can be made..but you don't have the hands on the item to check it out..Any finally, yes the makers of these products have caused the prices to go out of sight..BM1776

[Anonymous]

I sent e-mails to model railroader, Athearn, great model railroad show, greenburg, and other manufactures involved in the hobby, asking them how they felt and their opinion. None returned a response or had no comment. It seems that they don't have an oppinion, our don't care about what we think. Tony

[cbq9911a]

To keep the hobby alive more people need to be interested. "Can't afford it" is not really an issue because you can shop around to get a lower price.

One problem is that model railroad merchandise is not in the places that people shop at. If Wal-Mart or Target had a decent selection of model railroad merchandise, you'd have a lot more interest in the hobby, because that is where people shop.

Another problem is that the products that people want aren't being made. For example, if you live by the BNSF commuter line in Chicago, you'd be interested in Budd bilevels and the BNSF variation of the F40PH. Neither is available in HO at a reasonable cost.

[cabforward]

maybe you're right..in the last paragraph, you say, if you live in chicago, you'd be interested in budd bilevels..

is this about sparking interest from adults or children? the opening post mentions getting children into this hobby.. do chidren care what the train looks like? are they asking for a model from pacific fast mail or athearn? 99% of children under 12 who want a train set couldn't care less what r.r. is stenciled on the side of the engine, or what kind of engine it is..

likewise, most adults who are starting their r.r. hobby wouldn't know or care what style of rolling stock they are buying.. if they did, they wouldn't be starting out, they would already have preferences which means they wouldn't want a starter set..

you're right about the availability of model sets in stores.. that means management has to be told what you want, that means you have to tell them.. have you?

99% percent of people who "look" for model sets but don't see them and walk away wondering why the stores don't carry what they're looking for are not true model enthusiasists.. they are buying something to interest a child until it breaks, then it goes in the dumper.. those who want to start a child in any hobby, but have not pursued it for themselves, should pu***he question with store managers and companies until results are realized..

since you're posting this on the internet.. well, if there ever was a place to find out something, this is it.. send email to stores and companies asking about your interests.. where are the local outlets, how can someone stimulate a company to make space for your hobby on store shelves?

how often did my parents ask me 'have you done your homework?' ..if you want access to hobby materials and advice, noone is going to ring your doorbell with a package wrapped in red ribbon.. you have to go look for it, which means, 'do your homework'..

this magazine is a good starting point.. did you know there is a forum for modelers here? have you tried it? if you really want to get inside this hobby, or any interest to a serius level, you've got to 'do your homework'!!

[ericsp]

Athearn does now have ready to run. However, they just bought the rights and equipment to make the boxcars that Details West used to make form DW. Athearn is not selling them yet, but they list them under the kits in the news section of their website. I don't think Athearn is discontinuing their kits. Now if I could only get them to make models of more types of RBLs and SD45T-2s.

[ericsp]

I ordered some Microscale decals from a hobby shop about this time last year. The decals have not come in and the shop closed about a month ago.

[ericsp]

There is still variety in trains. Its just that it is rather subtle.

[ericsp]

At least half of the fun of getting a model is assembling it.

I don't think that I have heard anything as crazy as DCC on a 4'x8' layout. I have a 6'3"x8' industrial layout without DCC and it works fine.

In regards to the prices, originally I planned on modeling industries that ship and receive a wide variety of cars. Now I think that I might focus primarily on industries on have little to no equipment outside and ship or receive primarily boxcars, its cheaper that way.

[Anonymous]

Sad news! It seems that most of my industries are changing over to truck shipments. The spurs are getting rustier and full of weeds. Why?? The high cost of railcars. Athearn pay attention. In your Ready-To-Roll line you have a series of roadnames at X amount of dollars. Then when you come out with some new roadnames the price goes up 1-2 dollars!! Why? Did the printing costs go up? Is the paint more expensive? Maybe all that labor in China demaned a heck of a raise!! You guys check it out for yourself. When a certain cars came out in new roadnames in the last year they were 12.95. And now I see cars with new roadnames due March-April have increased a buck or two!! WHy??? Atlas comes out with new roadnames and I don't recall a price jump like that. Intermountain comes out with new roadnames all the time in the same body style, no increase. If they followed Athearns habbits, their kits might well be over fifty dollars a pop!!!!!